I’m not sure what to think….

[Mistletoeandawine]

Just came across this, I know it’s DM but I’m conflicted…. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rse-branch-TEN-times-make-water-obstacle.html

 

[MotherOfChickens]

My instructor did this to my pony when I was about 11, my Exmoor hated muddy ditches. I got off, led my pony away and never went back. I met him again when he examined my Stage 3 lol.

Again we will get that ‘worse happens elsewhere’ as though that justifies it. I am just a bit disappointed that a great horseman like him can’t come up with a better way of getting a reluctant horse over an obstacle.
I do think that the advent of everyone having a camera might change the way we train horses-either that or we will have the privilege taken away.

 

[stangs]

Was just about to make a thread about this.

It's abuse, pure and simple. Cruel, painful, unethical, unacceptable, and will have made the horse's opinion of water much worse - so not even a 'good' training technique.

 

[ArklePig]

I don't see what's to be conflicted about to be honest. It's a disgusting way to treat any sentient being.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

There's no conflict here. It's completely out of order.

 

[BatHorse]

Completely unacceptable, that's no way to train a horse, or treat any animal

 

[mini_b]

You’d think being as good as he was he would have a better method for getting a less keen horse into water.

shameful. I read the comments and as a “horsey person” I’m embarrassed to be honest.

i am lucky in that I’ve never trained with anyone that’s made me have to be an advocate for my horse. I would have told sir mark to eff off that day I think.

 

[Equi]

Oh dear. He’s made it so far in the equestrian world now he’s done. He really should know better this is unacceptable.

 

[SEL]

The microcob hates going through water and mud. Pre her injury I was donning my wellies and practising leading her through it with praise and reward. I don't think beating her with a stick would change her view of it but polos might.

I seriously hope people who train this way will rethink now they know it's at risk of appearing in public.

 

[Aperchristmas]

God that was a shocking, and ultimately hugely disappointing watch. I don't think that horse will have a much better opinion of water after that treatment.

 

[[153312]]

Utterly abhorrent behaviour and ultimately a lazy, pointless way of 'training' that will cause horse and ride far more issues in the long run.

 

[teddypops]

Shocking to see and upsetting that to some people this is acceptable. I left a lesson once with someone who thought it a good idea to chase me and whip my pony with a lunge whip. Why did the rider not stop him?

 

[scotlass]

I'm equally confused (and upset / angered) by him and the person sitting on the horse, who sat there and let him. If someone had done that to a horse of mine, I would have dismounted into the water if necessary, left the horse standing there and punched the trainer, even if he was a "Sir".

 

[stangs]

Why did the rider not stop him?

As I understand it, the rider was a young adult and was afraid (understandably if not unfortunately) to stand up against one of the highest ranked equestrians in the world.

 

[Nicnac]

This was two years ago. Why it is just surfacing and where's the proof it was Mark Todd? Not condoning it in any way as vile and abusive behaviour but am extremely sceptical of social media.

 

[twobearsarthur]

It just makes me sad. Again. That anyone (whether that’s Mark Todd or not) thinks this is ok, that people defend it because worse things happen as though that’s an excuse.

 

[cumbriamax]

I don't condone the behaviour but is it confirmed who is in the video. I haven't actually watched the video.

 

[ecb89]

I don't condone the behaviour but is it confirmed who is in the video. I haven't actually watched the video.

Yes the rider posted on her instagram

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I know newspapers aren't exactly strangers to defamation but it would surely be a bad idea legally for an individual to so directly and publicly name someone falsely? I've no idea about these things but the person whose social media account it was posted from is the person in the video on the horse rather than it being anonymously posted, which would have been easy enough to do instead.

In the version with sound I think the rider says something like "I don't think he'll go from there" after the initial stop. She sounds a bit shaken (to me, others may disagree); I can see how what Stangs posted would apply. It's easy for us to say things like "well I would have got off and given him xyz", and I'd count myself among those who'd definitely want to advocate for the horse at all times and hope I'd have put a stop to it, but equally can see how in a moment like that it could have been overwhelming for the rider. I'm a bit less understanding of the people stood filming/watching because I do think it could have been easier for someone who was not the rider to step in.

 

[DabDab]

This is why I commented as I did on the hunt rider pony kick thread. We can shout burn the witch or we can be honest that this level of unethical stuff is horrendously common in the horse world and horse sport. It is my absolute joy that I do not have to keep my horses on livery yards anymore and don't have to see it, and know the trainers and pros locally to steer clear of.

But we prefer to pretend that it is rare and seem to find it impossible to have a rational conversation about the things that contribute to it. The most frequent, persistent and pervasive abuse I have witnessed has been as a result of people trying to get their horses to move and respond like big sharp warmbloods because that (rather than good training) is seen as the key to dressage success. But say that in most horsey circles (incl on here) and you are dismissed as jealous, uninformed etc etc. And this is only the same thing - horse not naturally inclined to do a thing necessary for a particular sport gets the pressure ramped up and ramped up until it's tipped over into nothing short of physical abuse.

 

[teddypops]

I know newspapers aren't exactly strangers to defamation but it would surely be a bad idea legally for an individual to so directly and publicly name someone falsely? I've no idea about these things but the person whose social media account it was posted from is the person in the video on the horse rather than it being anonymously posted, which would have been easy enough to do instead.

In the version with sound I think the rider says something like "I don't think he'll go from there" after the initial stop. She sounds a bit shaken (to me, others may disagree); I can see how what Stangs posted would apply. It's easy for us to say things like "well I would have got off and given him xyz", and I'd count myself among those who'd definitely want to advocate for the horse at all times and hope I'd have put a stop to it, but equally can see how in a moment like that it could have been overwhelming for the rider. I'm a bit less understanding of the people stood filming/watching because I do think it could have been easier for someone who was not the rider to step in.

From the cheering, it didn’t sound like the onlookers were particularly bothered.

 

[LEC]

This video is 2 years old which tells you how social licence and acceptable treatment of animals has changed.

 

[Sir barnaby]

I have taught in the pony club and this would never have been allowed. When the ponies are reluctant to go in the water I have led them in to give them some confidence or let them take their time one step in at a time. I have been a spectator when mark todd has been teaching and I have to say I was less than impressed. He maybe a first class rider but definitely not a first class instructor.

 

[Red-1]

I don't like this video at all. Apart from anything else, the horse was going sweetly enough into the water (although I presume it had been hesitant before) when suddenly the person runs up behind it and hits it, when it was going straight in anyway (early part of the video I saw). I actually thought, "well that horse won't want to go near the water next time."

It all just seemed ineffectual and unnecessary, harmful in that the horse would feel less and less confident to approach the water's edge/hit zone, until the poor horse did stop, then the hitting escalated into abuse. I too would have been leaving the lesson, and I know I would because I have had to brace up a XC trainer before, that I won't clobber the horse and would rather wait it out and use actual timing and finesse.

I have little finesse, so it took a fair old amount of time, but once in, the horse was confidently in, as he had actually made a decision to go in, as opposed to be running away from something even more scary. Loading is the same, people hit the horses to force them on, whereas I would spend longer on getting the horse responsive and then setting them up to be able to thoughtfully make a decision. Then the decision sticks and transfers to other situations.

I suspect the trainer was expected to 'make progress' during a lesson that would not be cheap, so used this method. Sadly, it shows something about the man that he was also happy to have it filmed, so seems confident that it is not abuse. I disagree.

I did used to use more force than I am now comfortable with, but many years ago I decided that I would rather not progress then to do it like that.

I wonder if he will put a statement out?

 

[CMcC]

I would have thought the Daily Mail of all organs would know that the correct way of addressing someone who has a Knighthood is Sir Mark not Sir Todd (although I think he will always be Sir Todd to me now).

 

[[153312]]

This video is 2 years old which tells you how social licence and acceptable treatment of animals has changed.

??

it was posted on tiktok 5 days ago


ETA - never mind, just checked instagram and video was filmed at a clinic in 2020

 

[AmyMay]

‘If’ it’s him (although regardless), what a pr!(k

 

[CMcC]

??

it was posted on tiktok 5 days ago

The video was taken two years ago and posted on Tik Tok 5 days ago.

 

[AFB]

Does anybody have a link to the video? I’m not sure if I’m being dense but can’t see it in the article?

Struggling to believe it’s MT without seeing for myself.

Not that it makes a difference to the actions, but because he’s always been a bit of a hero :-(

 

[Red-1]

Does anybody have a link to the video? I’m not sure if I’m being dense but can’t see it in the article?

Struggling to believe it’s MT without seeing for myself.

Not that it makes a difference to the actions, but because he’s always been a bit of a hero :-(

I just looked on Youtube and searched Mark Todd beating horse and it came right up. Not that I am saying it is him, but that is what I searched.