I am going to try brwt on Friday!

catembi said:
It suddenly occurred to me while poo picking this morning (I have a LOT of poo to pick and a LOT of time to think), why don't I just use the 'user ignore' button and post what the hell I like...??!!! I have NO ONE to ask in RL, so I like to ask for people's thoughts on < insert random horse issue of the day > as it's often really, really helpful to have people's experiences. But if I ask something, then get a reply implying that my knowledge is deficient because I need to ask/I shouldn't be doing x anyway/my mgmt is deficient & I shouldn't have let the situation arise in the first place/whatever, then it stops this feeling like a safe place.

Anyway, my session is at 10. Then I have a dressage lesson at 12, so we shall see! That's probably not enough time for it to work, but who knows!

Re the meno sleep - the phone call was incredibly helpful. The lady wasn't clock watching & didn't push her course at all - it's CBT-i. She identified several insightful things that I could try changing. For e.g., having a snack at bed time to try not to get woken up by low carbs. When I wake up in the night, I have been writing down the time to see if there's a pattern. She said that I should stop doing that as it might be giving me sleep anxiety. Also I have no downtime at all - probably due to ADHD. I need to have 5 minute periods throughout the day to concentrate on just breathing. And to start using an alarm clock. All things I wouldn't have thought of. I have been trying it for a few days - no difference. She said that dreaming a lot & being able to remember dreams is bad, not good, because I'm not getting restorative deep sleep and that's why I am always exhausted, despite not particularly having trouble going to sleep and not lying awake for hours.

I have got a nasty feeling that alcohol might have something to do with it. I usually only drink on a Fri & a Sat, and stick to two drinks, but this week I have been on leave, so 'allowed' to drink every day. Still no more than two. I am not sure whether to stop altogether. I do really enjoy my Fri & Sat drinks but I do NOT enjoy unrefreshing sleep! Perhaps if I stop, the other tips would work? I really don't want to give up my Fri & Sat drinks though! Maybe I will try a sober fortnight, plus all the tips, see what happens & then book to do the course. Aarrgghhh to no drinking!
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I don’t have sleep problems but if I do have a restless night I NEVER look at the clock when I wake up. Because if I’ve woken up at, say, 4am I will then be thinking ‘I only have x hours left before my alarm’ and that increases my stress and reduces my chances of getting to sleep. If I only have 50 minutes left before my alarm I don’t want to know, I want to nod off and have those 45 minutes of sleep.
 
The session was very full on - a cross between hypnosis & CBT. I had to imagine bad scenarios that had happened, and then blot them out with good scenarios, so we were focusing on times when I had had unpleasant experiences out hacking then replacing them with imagined good outcomes. But then it kind of morphed into something else. (Info dump for people who don't know me - I had a Cruising horse that I competed to 1 m 15 BS & we had 9 or 10 BD points. He got very sick, and died in 2007. I have had lots of horses since, each time hoping that it's going to be 'the one' & it has always gone wrong, but earlier & earlier. E.g. the first post-Cat horse got up to Discovery, the second post Cat horse (Trev the ex racer) jumped a BN or two on a ticket, the one after that didn't get as far as affiliated... Mostly PSSM, but for variety I also had one that I couldn't stay on.)

So then it turned out that the root cause is actually that I'm very afraid that I will never get back to the standard that I reached with Cat, and my actual lowest moment was last year when I put all my jumps away in the hay barn, thinking that I wouldn't need them again. Then we did some work on that, and how the best moment of my life was jumping Cat at a country show in the biggest class of the day, and how it would feel once I'm back doing that again. It was quite intense and I didn't realise the strength of feeling, that all came spilling out.

Then I did a dr lesson with a very good trainer who hasn't seen Thor since before he had a year out. He thinks he's looking a lot better than a year ago, even though he's only just back in work! I was concentrating on doing stuff rather than worrying about falling off.

Later on, I met a neighbour while I was walking one of the dogs & she is going to walk out with me for a hack on Sunday morning - her on foot & me on Thor. I haven't felt safe hacking for a long time & for the rest of the dog walk I was thinking, oh no, what have you done! But now it's almost turned into excitement and I was thinking about where we could have a canter. Dunno. I think Sunday morning will be a test of where we are. I am supposed to do at least one follow-up session - I wanted to let this one settle first before booking anything as it takes me a while to process things sometimes.

It was a very powerful experience and I will be extremely interested to see what happens on Sunday once I am actually heading down the drive! Quivering jelly or kick on, let's have a canter!

Whatever happens, I was really impressed that she determined that the real root cause is that I just haven't felt like myself since Cat died & I stopped competing BS or BD every weekend. The structure of competing, lessons, maintaining all the equipment etc went and there has been a big piece missing for a very long time. I have been drifting further & further away from being me. I feel that I have lost who I am and...this is really hard to put into words. Lost confidence in my whole self rather than 'just' riding? And I didn't even realise until today. Of course, I knew that I used to compete heavily at a reasonable level and now I don't, but I *didn't* know how lost I actually felt until it literally all came flooding out.

Am I making any sort of sense? I don't know. But this is the best I can do at describing it.
 
Wow, it sounds amazing. And yes, it makes perfect sense that you feel you lost your identity. I had similar happen when I was kicked in the face because something that was my go-to when stressed, a lifestyle much more than a hobby, suddenly wasn't "safe" anymore and I couldn't trust my judgment or myself, in anything. I think that's the issue when something that is such a huge part of your life - IE horses - goes wrong. Because you don't just lose a hobby, you lose a bit of yourself.
I'm really pleased it went well for you today and please do update how things go following it. I'd be fascinated to see if the change is long lasting; I hope it is.
 
Thank you for writing your experience today. From your explanation I think I have lost a part of me that cannot be regained. I have loss of confidence from buying the wrong horse plus the knowledge that the effects of ageing is making the things I used to do ridingwise seem impossible.
It helps so much when you understand, doesn’t it? Even if in my case age cannot be reversed.
I hope your ride goes well.
 
I wish I hadn't read this thread. I now can't get out of my head an incident from many years ago where I could easily have died, that I'd managed not to think about for years 😦
 
catembi said:
The session was very full on - a cross between hypnosis & CBT. I had to imagine bad scenarios that had happened, and then blot them out with good scenarios, so we were focusing on times when I had had unpleasant experiences out hacking then replacing them with imagined good outcomes. But then it kind of morphed into something else. (Info dump for people who don't know me - I had a Cruising horse that I competed to 1 m 15 BS & we had 9 or 10 BD points. He got very sick, and died in 2007. I have had lots of horses since, each time hoping that it's going to be 'the one' & it has always gone wrong, but earlier & earlier. E.g. the first post-Cat horse got up to Discovery, the second post Cat horse (Trev the ex racer) jumped a BN or two on a ticket, the one after that didn't get as far as affiliated... Mostly PSSM, but for variety I also had one that I couldn't stay on.)

So then it turned out that the root cause is actually that I'm very afraid that I will never get back to the standard that I reached with Cat, and my actual lowest moment was last year when I put all my jumps away in the hay barn, thinking that I wouldn't need them again. Then we did some work on that, and how the best moment of my life was jumping Cat at a country show in the biggest class of the day, and how it would feel once I'm back doing that again. It was quite intense and I didn't realise the strength of feeling, that all came spilling out.

Then I did a dr lesson with a very good trainer who hasn't seen Thor since before he had a year out. He thinks he's looking a lot better than a year ago, even though he's only just back in work! I was concentrating on doing stuff rather than worrying about falling off.

Later on, I met a neighbour while I was walking one of the dogs & she is going to walk out with me for a hack on Sunday morning - her on foot & me on Thor. I haven't felt safe hacking for a long time & for the rest of the dog walk I was thinking, oh no, what have you done! But now it's almost turned into excitement and I was thinking about where we could have a canter. Dunno. I think Sunday morning will be a test of where we are. I am supposed to do at least one follow-up session - I wanted to let this one settle first before booking anything as it takes me a while to process things sometimes.

It was a very powerful experience and I will be extremely interested to see what happens on Sunday once I am actually heading down the drive! Quivering jelly or kick on, let's have a canter!

Whatever happens, I was really impressed that she determined that the real root cause is that I just haven't felt like myself since Cat died & I stopped competing BS or BD every weekend. The structure of competing, lessons, maintaining all the equipment etc went and there has been a big piece missing for a very long time. I have been drifting further & further away from being me. I feel that I have lost who I am and...this is really hard to put into words. Lost confidence in my whole self rather than 'just' riding? And I didn't even realise until today. Of course, I knew that I used to compete heavily at a reasonable level and now I don't, but I *didn't* know how lost I actually felt until it literally all came flooding out.

Am I making any sort of sense? I don't know. But this is the best I can do at describing it.
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Making a lot of sense, I'm sure a lot of us can relate....i know I can
 
I mentioned before I can’t do visualisation- there is a name for it and I always struggle with the idea of putting a thought in a box and leaving it. How do you actually write a bad outcome over with a new one? Does it just work in that moment or does it stay there ?

I lost lots of confidence with the menopause but I think it pretty much came back.

Glad the session has worked well for you.😀
 
Really happy for you catembi that the session helped you piece some pieces of the ‘jigsaw’ of yourself together and feel the relief of understanding. These personal processes are so difficult to put into words, yet your post explained it so well, so thank you for updating.

I really hope your hack is a success too, you deserve it!
 
It's all been a bit bizarre... As I said, as soon as I'd made the arrangement, I thought, oh no, what did you do that for...? But since then, the usual 'oh no, I'm hacking' anxiety didn't resurface. Not even when heading out. We had a few challenging situations...to start with, it was windy which I normally don't like & which puts ME on high alert! Then we met two lots of two horses, there were some round bales & farm machinery right next to the bridleway, I had to go past the spot where he did a really big spook once & nearly got me off... All fine.

The wheels came off at the 55 minute point, but that was him suddenly getting symptomatic & it happened in the same place as before, so from that point onwards, he was being quite tricky. Very looky, kept trying to stretch his neck out, had to get past a recreation ground with screaming children & a dog barking at him where he planted & threatened to rear. The odd thing was that I just dealt with it all & the usual automatic, 'oh noooooo, I want to get off/what if I fall off' didn't happen. We got home okay, & usually I would have the post-hack aura of relief at it being over/still being alive & a load of stress coming out...that didn't happen either. I simply got on with my day as if it had been a non event when actually there had been a few sticky moments.

It's really strange. I was wondering yesterday whether it was going to have the same effect as a good pep talk, but it has been a lot more than that. The whole situation was de-stressed, and I was thinking about having a canter when he started going tight. As soon as I had coaxed him through the threatening to rear/planting thing, it disappeared instead of thinking, oh noooo, that was a bit dangerous, I didn't like it and now I've got to do the last bit on the road. Oh nooooo... My internal dialogue has definitely changed - or rather, it's BEEN changed as it was nothing that I have consciously done.

I am supposed to have one to two follow-ups and I think that I might book another session as from start to finish, during, beforehand & afterwards, it was so very different. The anxiety spikes simply weren't there and there was enough to trigger them.

(I have also done a post on a PSSM FB group re the sudden switch on of symptoms. He is turned out all day on sloping fields & he can work moderately hard in the school for 30 minutes, so I am not sure why he can't hack out in walk. The terrain wasn't strenuous and he is 635kg & I am 48kg so I am not heavy for him. I need to manage the PSSM better.)
 
Loads of positives there @catembi. Great to read.
I went on a fun ride today and was very apprehensive. On arrival an acquaintance asked me to ride with another lady who was also nervous. She had a waterford bit on her horse as the mare had been unstoppable recently. I found this out as we went round. Surprisingly the thought of looking out for the 2 of us banished a lot of my nerves and we had a lovely ride without trauma.
I also had tried to remember what you had written and push my bad experiences away. Thank you.
 
catembi said:
It's all been a bit bizarre... As I said, as soon as I'd made the arrangement, I thought, oh no, what did you do that for...? But since then, the usual 'oh no, I'm hacking' anxiety didn't resurface. Not even when heading out. We had a few challenging situations...to start with, it was windy which I normally don't like & which puts ME on high alert! Then we met two lots of two horses, there were some round bales & farm machinery right next to the bridleway, I had to go past the spot where he did a really big spook once & nearly got me off... All fine.

The wheels came off at the 55 minute point, but that was him suddenly getting symptomatic & it happened in the same place as before, so from that point onwards, he was being quite tricky. Very looky, kept trying to stretch his neck out, had to get past a recreation ground with screaming children & a dog barking at him where he planted & threatened to rear. The odd thing was that I just dealt with it all & the usual automatic, 'oh noooooo, I want to get off/what if I fall off' didn't happen. We got home okay, & usually I would have the post-hack aura of relief at it being over/still being alive & a load of stress coming out...that didn't happen either. I simply got on with my day as if it had been a non event when actually there had been a few sticky moments.

It's really strange. I was wondering yesterday whether it was going to have the same effect as a good pep talk, but it has been a lot more than that. The whole situation was de-stressed, and I was thinking about having a canter when he started going tight. As soon as I had coaxed him through the threatening to rear/planting thing, it disappeared instead of thinking, oh noooo, that was a bit dangerous, I didn't like it and now I've got to do the last bit on the road. Oh nooooo... My internal dialogue has definitely changed - or rather, it's BEEN changed as it was nothing that I have consciously done.

I am supposed to have one to two follow-ups and I think that I might book another session as from start to finish, during, beforehand & afterwards, it was so very different. The anxiety spikes simply weren't there and there was enough to trigger them.

(I have also done a post on a PSSM FB group re the sudden switch on of symptoms. He is turned out all day on sloping fields & he can work moderately hard in the school for 30 minutes, so I am not sure why he can't hack out in walk. The terrain wasn't strenuous and he is 635kg & I am 48kg so I am not heavy for him. I need to manage the PSSM better.)
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Sounds like it's worked really well for you - hopefully onwards and upwards from here! Tempted to have a go at BRWT myself now, as thus far nothing's worked for changing my mentality.

Just one comment - what happened 55min in sounds like him reaching threshold to me, rather than a sudden onset of PSSM symptoms (but I'm no PSSM expert).
 
catembi said:
I have heard it mentioned on here and think that one or two people have tried it, so I'm going to give it a go and see what happens.

It's this https://www.bwrt.org/ and apparently it can make you braver riding. I would love to be gung ho again! I was competing at a decent level (1 m 15 BS/ novice BD) when Catembi died & since then (2007) I have had sick note horse after sick note horse, so my capability has slipped, and the explosive PSSM horses haven't helped my confidence.

It's time to stop being wet & get brave & reckless again, & I really hope this helps.

I will report back if anyone is interested.
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Good luck.Hope it works for you.
 
southerncomfort said:
I doubt very much that a couple of drinks at the weekend would affect your sleep for the rest of the week, although I will say that I cut down from 2 glasses to 1, and I do sleep a bit better for it.

If you have an Android phone, their is an excellent app called Let's Meditate. The app is free and there are lots of different meditations you can download to your phone.

I find them really useful if I'm going through a period of high anxiety, and there are a couple that you can use to help get you off to sleep.

Interested to hear how you get on today. 🙂
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I will look for that,
 
Skib said:
I dont believe in bravery. I ride safe horses. And always have. My darling companions .
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I ride a safe horse but a bad fall this year has led to confidence issues. It took me weeks to canter and even a trot could send me worrying.
This pony used to fly over everything but a couple times of determination of being brave to jump only to ask her to halt before jumping has led to her lack of confidence. Instead of 70cm we competed cross poles around 20-30cm yesterday and then the 45 we stopped at one, knocked 2 (very rare for her to have a pole) and completely refused one jump despite organiser dropping the poles and had to lead her over.

I used to gallop down the beach, through the woods and happily hold the rein buckle. I can't remember when I last galloped.
A confidence thing is what I need so will look at this.


That sounds really positive Catembi. The hack sounds like a great new beginning for you and amazing the way you were able to think about it instead of reverting back to worrying.
 
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catembi said:
(I have also done a post on a PSSM FB group re the sudden switch on of symptoms. He is turned out all day on sloping fields & he can work moderately hard in the school for 30 minutes, so I am not sure why he can't hack out in walk. The terrain wasn't strenuous and he is 635kg & I am 48kg so I am not heavy for him. I need to manage the PSSM better.)
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Was that your first hack on dantrolene? It might be his stress that kicks off the tension too remember - he will have associations with what happened before when his muscles were sore.

Take it slowly. His confidence needs regaining as much as yours. If I walk my PSSM mare down a different route she is instantly on high alert and I can feel her tension. Tension + muscles is not a great mix.

But totally fantastic that you were able to manage it. I'm definitely feeling my age when I ride these days - my nerves are no longer in their 20s!!
 
2nd hack on dantrolene and he went symptomatic in the same place as last time. Firstly gets champy on the bit, then keeps wanting to stretch down then goes cross and spooky and backward thinking. This is 3/4 of the way round so heading towards home when if he was ‘normal’ he should if anything be keen to get back to his friends.

I’m starting supplements again which I stopped in my disheartened phase. Perhaps they will help. Maybe I should shorten the hack by turning round, but I don’t really like doing that.

It’s all trial and error, and trying to listen to feedback from him. There really aren’t any clear solutions!
 
I know exactly what you mean, FP! I used to go galloping about without a care in the world and can’t believe how high I used to jump 😮. I am so much hoping that I can go back to that, or rather, go forward to a braver me!
 
Thank you for thinking of me!

I have got another session booked for Nov 10th. Bit of a gap because I was promoted & changed department, so I've been at bandwidth for a few weeks.

It's early days, but when things start going a bit wrong, I have begun to dig in & deal rather than thinking that I want to get off. E.g. I took Thor to a jumping clinic today...our first time away from home in well over a year. He was a bit eyes on stalks to start with, but we just got on with it. He has type 2 PSSM & has been out of retirement for a few months as we tried Dantrolene & it is working for him! It was then going a bit wrong jumping as he over-jumps hugely which is very unseating & then he gets too excited. We are talking a 30 cm cross pole. So we stopped & watched for a bit & then I asked if we could do a canter pole & that's what we did. Pole on the ground in trot & then canter from both directions, he went very nicely. So I rode through a difficult situation instead of backing off. He was being challenging, wanting to run off, being bouncy, and my overriding thought was, 'you're going to do as I say' rather than, 'oh no! What if I fall off?' And I was quite relaxed when dealing, giving him the rein etc rather than hanging on.

Then tonight in my arena I was cantering Trev my other ex racer. He's another PSSM & can only do one lap of the arena in canter. I ride him in a bitless bridle as he hates being bitted, & he was threatening to buck, snaking his head etc. Bitless & bucking is a challenge as you simply can't yank their head up & say, oy, stop that! Instead of deciding that we'd better walk for the rest of the session, I regrouped & made him do it properly. (There is nothing particularly wrong with him - sometimes he just gets a bit above himself. Tonight it was a barking dog in a garden backing onto my property that set him off.)

It's really odd and quite subtle, but the belief is gradually creeping over me that I CAN rather than that I can't...
 
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