I attempted to teach flying changes... CC please?

Yes, I'm such a nasty human being :D :D

Why encourage op that she is doing well and horse is learning a new trick and looks brilliant?

There are far better ways to teach a flying change than using an unbalanced canter, to trot to sort of change legs to canter etc. And by reading a good book is the start if you can't afford lessons - that's what I do!

All I'm saying is you need to get the basics right before asking for harder movements and giving the horse lots of extra help i.e. Changes on figure of 8, canter to walk to canter through middle and make it shorter each time.

Hardly anyone has given you any cc on here just told you your horse is lovely - which I agree. But you asked for cc not how beautiful your horse is? I give cc (as harsh as people seem to think I am, it is true what I'm saying - read any book) and get told I'm nasty :D joys of hho :D
 
I think actually "nasty" relates to "sniggering". Even if you meant it in response to rara00 comment, which was actually a bit blunt but not a veiled critisism but a genuine query, it's just unpleasant,
 
I started mine on a figure of 8, actually dropped the outline for a while as she struggled anyway! I let her pick the canter speed to start with & changed bends legs & asked.
I don't do it regular enough to be established in it but she knows the buttons if I ask.
Lovely horse, just need to quietly work out what's the best way to ask him. Horses are so different!
 
rachaelstar said:
Yes, I'm such a nasty human being :D :D

Why encourage op that she is doing well and horse is learning a new trick and looks brilliant?

There are far better ways to teach a flying change than using an unbalanced canter, to trot to sort of change legs to canter etc. And by reading a good book is the start if you can't afford lessons - that's what I do!

All I'm saying is you need to get the basics right before asking for harder movements and giving the horse lots of extra help i.e. Changes on figure of 8, canter to walk to canter through middle and make it shorter each time.

Hardly anyone has given you any cc on here just told you your horse is lovely - which I agree. But you asked for cc not how beautiful your horse is? I give cc (as harsh as people seem to think I am, it is true what I'm saying - read any book) and get told I'm nasty :D joys of hho :D
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you are quite right in what you're saying, there are better ways to teach a flying change and more work on the basic canter is needed BUT I haven't seen any comments on here that are telling the op that what she is doing is spot on and to continue as she is.
Op has clearly asked for help as she is aware that the way she is going about it isn't working, cc needs to be both constructive and critical. Too much criticism will not help her without something constructive too. Several people have posted suggestions and tips without being harsh or only telling her how lovely her horse is.
Op is clearly willing to take advice and try and improve so best of luck to her.

Ps agree with others there really is nothing better than a few lessons with someone you really gell with and as money is tight it is an important decision so get some recommendations from people and if possible go watch them teach someone else. Where abouts are you? Maybe someone here can recommend
 
rachaelstar- a appreciate your honesty and comments, I have actually ordered some books as mentioned- (Classical Seat- Sylvia Loch , Invisible Riding -Sylvia loch, Down to Earth Dressage- Carl Hester) so I will do my homework and probably do a lot more filming and watching back as it's difficult to tell from the saddle . I think I know a couple of local instructors who are very experienced, I will ask around- he can live without a new bridle for a bit and I will book some lessons instead!
I was a bit :eek: at how short my stirrups where when I watched It back ! as I ride my pony with my stirrups very long so I don't know what happened here !
I will take a good critical look at his canter and work on his collection and extension - he's very good at that in walk and trot but thinking about it, he did find it a bit more difficult in canter. Then I can consider the figure of 8 and other exercises :) last thing I want to do is rush him and ruin his brilliant attitude to learning (he's very sensitive so I really have to watch I don't push him too far).
 
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Milo n Molly is absolutely bang on the money with her post. Constructive crtitisicm is helping the OP to move forward without destroying their confidence. Actually being able to give good feedback is also being able to point out the positive as well.

A recent post in here demonstrated that most people find snarky comments, in jokes & *sniggers* unacceptable & rude. I think this is why it is being suggested you are being rude to the OP not that the advice you are giving her to improve the changes is wrong.
 
Hoof_prints you appear to have a wonderful attitude to training & the advice you have been given. Your horse is very lucky to have someone so willing to do the best for them.

I look forward to you posting another video when you've got those changes nailed :)
 
Just as a little point, while you say that you will work on collection what i would work on more is transitions.
I have often found that mine who can to flying changes without much input from me does them better when not too collected. This maybe because he is a big lanky fella but even with my cob who was naturally collected would find them easier in a longer frame. I think it gives them more time to sort their legs out. The reason i say work on transitions is so you can break down the change. Using a pole is very useful but it won’t hurt to start teaching them without an aid.

Start doing lots of transitions to get him thinking forward, off your leg and pushing from behind, do changes of the rein in canter coming back to trot to change leg, you can gradually start to change the amount of time in trot. Once you have walk to canter down you can start doing it like that, again decreasing the amount of time in walk before you ask for canter. You can do this anywhere not just on a circle, I have found going across the diagonal gives you more time so you don’t get as flustered because your running out of room. Even waiting until you are on the track is fine.

In your vid you are not giving him enough time to process what you’re asking so he gets his legs in a knot. Get your transitions really sharp, I know you said he picked it up in a day but you need to make the established as possible so keep working on them before you start asking for changes. He will find them easier the stronger he is as well.

Oh and sit up and look forward, if you tip to one side it throws them off balance even more and makes things even more complicated for both of you. I still have to be really strict with myself over this. You can put weight into your hip but don’t actually move to one side or look down, just ask for canter like you would normally.

I'm by no means an expert by the way but this has worked with mine, I would try different things to find out what he understands the best and work from there.

If money is tight try to find some clinics to go to, cost are normally lower or even try shared lessons, even if you can’t take you horse go and watch anyway as you can pick up quite a bit, more so from normal people rather than big names. Read what you can get hold of, the net wasn’t such a big tool when I was bumbling about but now has lots of info.

Anyway I think your boy is cracking and with the time and effort you seem so willing to put in I'm sure he will be fab, keep us updated. :)
 
Hello just wanted to add a few tips as I'm learning to teach flying changes to my horse at the moment and I'm finding it quite hard (even with expert tuition). I've done flying changes on dressage schoolmasters before, but never had to teach them to a horse. My instructor seems to be a firm believer in pushing beyond limits I thought I was capable of, so I would say crack on with what you're doing - I don't see that it does any harm to aim high when you have a keen nature as you do!

With my horse we've been working really hard to get him properly engaged behind (not something that comes naturally to my horse) and we've spent about 4-5 months working on getting a really good canter. We then started doing half 10-15m canter circles off the track, returning to track in counter canter, then asking for a change as we were coming towards the corner. To ask for the change, I have to give a kick with my new inside leg and flick with my whip on the outside to try to get him to step high enough to change behind. I try not to lean or wobble or lean into it - just sit straight and looking slightly to the outside. He finds it easier right to left than left to right.

If he changes in front but not behind, or behind but not in front, I'm not allowed to let him break back into trot - he has to sort his legs out from where he has ended up. He gets lots of praise when he does it right or after getting in a muddle, when he then sorts himself out. He seems to find them great fun when he gets them right and often does a mini squeal.

A caution against collection as well - funnily enough I've found my horse finds changes much much easier when he's travelling forwards - especially in a light seat. I've started doing his canter fittening work for eventing and am doing it in the arena in a 2-point seat, and using diagonal figures of 8 to change the rain - and he's offering changes without any effort whatsoever - in fact I have the opposite issue in that he's not waiting for me to ask him; he's just doing them. This is obviously good for jumping because I want him to take care of his own legs and sort himself out when we are eventing.

Something we've been doing to work on strengthening the back end for this work, has been steep (from one side of the arena to the other) trot and canter leg yields really getting him to step across and under with his inside hind leg, keeping his body parallel to the side of the arena, and not just doing the canter ones away from the leading leg, but towards the leading leg as well (like half pass but with wrong flexion) - you can then do a flying change when hitting the track and those changes seem much easier as he's had to really use his bottom and step through for the leg yield, so the change is easier to get.

Anyway good luck! The books you've bought are excellent, and I look forward to seeing the progress you'll make!
 
He's gorgeous, I'm such a sucker for a skewbald.

I agree with the other posters who said that you often need to for them to be not too collected in order to changes, but they do need to be able to really power along from behind, otherwise they risk just falling into, so the suggested transition exercises will really help build up his strength. Lots of useful exercises have been suggested, but I find the ones that have you doing the change on the track (i.e. do a 10-15m half-circle and then leg yield or counter back to the track, then change) are the most useful when a horse has a tendency not to stay straight (most of them do!), as the fence will naturally stop them falling out.

I know you said about looking for an instructor, perhaps if you do a post on here someone could recommend some names for your area? The sucky thing about changes (can you tell I've struggled with them? :o ) is that once they've gone wrong, they are harder to fix than they are to teach in the first place, so definitely worth having an experienced pair of eyes on the ground.
 
Lovely pony and you have done a cracking job on him so far :)

I had to teach my youngster changes and it does take time. I gradually built it up from a simple change, trotting over X then picking up the opposite lead, gradually reducing the trot strides every session and also introduced a pole.

A lot of people have mentioned using a pole which I think is probably the easiest way for him if he struggles on a figure of 8. Just use the canter transition over the pole, you might have to exaggerate it a bit at first until he gets it, then you can work on tidying it up :p but straightness is definitely the key. I used a schooling whip with mine too, just to encourage him to change behind, he got the hang in front (which a lot of horses do) but a little flick with the whip when I asked and he sharp picked it up and swapped behind

Good luck with teaching him, he looks like he would pick it up rather quickly but you have had lots of useful advice on here to take away and put in practice :)
 
Wow so many helpful replies- you lot are great, I didn't expect so much help :)
I have just been looking for clinics in my area . I was also planning to enter some low level dressage competitions to get some feedback on the very basics. I am leics/warks area if anyone can recommend any instructors.

I think I've ordered that book this morning (101 , or 100 something) - sounds the same, I'm also printing this off for reference :D so all your helpful advice and comments will be put to good use ! Just off to the horses now so I will have a better read when I get back.

Unfortunately he is very scared of whips so I don't ride him with one - took me a few sessions to get him lunging calmly with a whip, but he gets upset if ridden with a whip (not sure I want to know why). Yes I was worried now I'd started wrong I have some undoing on my hands- but it's all improving my knowledge and skills so I don't mind (not that I intend to school this way in future if I can help it!)
 
He's really nice, but I think you really need to get your canter much much stronger and more established before you teach FC's. good on you for trying though.

The problem that I would see would be that when you teach a horse them, they can be very willing and try to offer you them all the time. And if he was to get a bit unbalanced he might just try switching legs to help himself out or if your got a bit unbalanced on top he may think that's what you want and pop one in. Not so good in a prelim etc lol! Hence why you need a really good, strong, balanced canter / counter canter which can be collected and extended, when the horse is very clear about the leg aids. Many dressage riders have said to me the worst thing about teaching changes, is having to almost unteach them after! Because the horse will want to offer them all the time.

Echo others, get an instructor. Or why not contact a local dressage rider and ask if you can watch them working some of their horses? I met a good friend like this and I find watching has been a fantastic contribution to my own education. The get a few lessons from them.

Again though, lovely horse! And good on you for wanting to try some party tricks :)
 
If your horse goes missing he's not here *looks shifty*

Seriously, how gorgeous is he!!! Some great advice on here, hope you find an instructor who you gel with :)

P.S and please keep us updated!!
 
Seems like you have had some good advice on here.

Personally if he was mine (not a coloured lover so if he goes missing it wasnt me :)) I would work at getting a strong and balanced canter, work on getting a collected canter and sitting more behind.
Then work on canter walk canter transitions, make sure that you get a clear defined walk in between the canter, start with 8 strides of walk and work down to less, this will help for when you do ask for flying changes as he will be more responsive and balanced.
 
This DVD is brilliant- highly recommended http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flying-Changes-Richard-Davison/dp/B000MRXE5Y

there's also been lots of threads before that might be worth trawling through

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=553407&highlight=flying

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=478188&highlight=flying

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=378906&highlight=flying

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=360401&highlight=flying

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=318612&highlight=flying

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=264635&highlight=flying

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=133127&highlight=flying

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=23236&highlight=flying

that should keep you going!
 
I do like to be kept busy :D you are all doing a great job of keeping me busy!
Haha ok if he goes missing I will know where to look then ;) But be warned, he follows every rule of being a coloured with white legs and a white tail.. i.e must only poo on the white hock and stamp in the mud until bay. If you want to steal him, you will probably find him standing in the little river in the field splashing the water by himself because he's a bit special :rolleyes: (but at least that cleans the legs and tail! )

I will keep you updated on him :) and my dad is a bit of a photographer so plenty of pictures :) So when I get an instructor I will report back on the lesson and how it went.

I schooled him today and just worked on balance, based on what's been said on here and focused a lot on the walk and trot before starting on the canter which I feel was definitely improved after a few exercises such as looping off and back on the track , transitions, circles and encouraging him to relax rather than worry about complicated stuff for today. He rushed a little to start with but then thought about it and decided it was a much better idea to hold himself up and use his muscles a bit more.

Anyway.. back to have a good read of the thread again!
 
Concentrate on the rhythm and softness in the paces in the on and back....eg canter one.two.three has to be clear and same rhythm in the on and the back. Also flexing inside, straight, outside will improve suppleness
 
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