I cant underatand it

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Cluelessblonde

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Hi all

I got a 15.2hh cob 2 months ago totally quiet and safe. Out of nowhere hes become a loon. Like throw himself on the ground with a rider loon. Back teeth saddle all done. Only feed on grass just asking for a trot that's it. Both ridden by very experienced riders. Hes not spoilt a few carrots here and there but never dragged me anywhere or got away with anything so I cant understand it. No weight loss for ulcers.
 
Echo much of that. Its hard to be too proscriptive without seeing the event but I would also be wondering about sight loss or neurological problems. Oh.. also possibly feed sensitivity - what are you feeding him? Depending on the history and what (if anything) showed at the vetting I would also be going back over back / SI / Hocks / KS. Throwing himself on the floor - ridden or not - is so abnormal that this is far more than cob stubbornness. This is a horse seriously trying to tell you something.
 
Yes bought from a dealer but with a friend who's an ex jockey and extremely knowledgeable. Shes has ran a good few yards etc. sit to nearly anything to be honest. Turnout 24 7 on good level of grass. It was the level of pure I want you off and I am going to hurt you in the process that I really didn't like but fine on the ground.
 
HeyMich said:
You don't need weight loss for ulcers. Mine looked a picture of health but had grade 2/3 pyloric and squamous.

Was he vetted? Bloods taken? If so, I'd arrange to get them tested asap.

Did you buy from a dealer by any chance?

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Bloods taken and vetted he had a few niggles that the vet cause shes a physio as well so I got them sorted but he was 100 percent honest when riding even with a ill fitting saddle and needed his teeth done so once I got them done he was happier but I wasn't riding much because I have a baby so it is hard to find the time but hes not at all fit but never had an issue before now
 
Lots of good advice above but just a quick note that we had a mare who was super sensitive to carrots and turned into a complete lunatic if she had even a small bite as a treat.
 
Red-Nose said:
I would test the bloods taken at vetting to ensure the horse was not on a painkiller or sedative when tried.

Other than that, I would contact the dealer and ask them to take a look.

(Also having the vet, as I suggested above).

I would not persist without answers.
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To be honest I was just going to sell him on because he was bought as a safe mommy cob after selling my heart horse (not my ideally scenario) who was seriously quirky and high maintenance and I really don't need a project of behavior issues... been there done that but its irritating me what the issue is but I don't want to end up down the road of pumping money into an answer that will end up with the same result
 
Cluelessblonde said:
To be honest I was just going to sell him on because he was bought as a safe mommy cob after selling my heart horse (not my ideally scenario) who was seriously quirky and high maintenance and I really don't need a project of behavior issues... been there done that but its irritating me what the issue is but I don't want to end up down the road of pumping money into an answer that will end up with the same result
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It is always your decision, but selling could be tricky f he is not able be ridden. I would go back to the dealer, saying he is not suitable for what you need. I would check bloods first though as if he was drugged it is more an open and shut case.

You may find that you have free legal advice with your house insurance (or through BHS) whereby they will help you know your rights and compose a letter to the dealer.

Your legal rights are stronger with a dealer, not that it is always easy to get what you are entitled to from them.
 
Cluelessblonde said:
To be honest I was just going to sell him on because he was bought as a safe mommy cob after selling my heart horse (not my ideally scenario) who was seriously quirky and high maintenance and I really don't need a project of behavior issues... been there done that but its irritating me what the issue is but I don't want to end up down the road of pumping money into an answer that will end up with the same result
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You are seriously thinking of selling an unpredictable, unsafe horse who has had 2 experienced riders off with intent, without even finding out what the problem is?
How do you think you will be able to do that, you will only get pennies for him with full disclosure and without it you could be in danger of causing someone a serious injury. To say nothing of your responsibility towards the horse, who obviously has a problem somewhere.
Rather than sell on, if you can't/won't investigate what is causing the behaviour, you should guarantee his safety by pts. He is your responsibility.
 
Had no intention of selling without full disclosure and know I'll get pennies. He would be only sold as a project. If not then pull him down. It wasnt just a simple fall it was bolt then lunging 20 times then throw him self on the ground. Literally only trying to pull up to get off but he wouldn't he wanted to hurt her
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
You are seriously thinking of selling an unpredictable, unsafe horse who has had 2 experienced riders off with intent, without even finding out what the problem is?
How do you think you will be able to do that, you will only get pennies for him with full disclosure and without it you could be in danger of causing someone a serious injury. To say nothing of your responsibility towards the horse, who obviously has a problem somewhere.
Rather than sell on, if you can't/won't investigate what is causing the behaviour, you should guarantee his safety by pts. He is your responsibility.
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Completely agree but my responsibility is firstly my child after that it's hubbie and animals simple as
 
Cluelessblonde said:
Completely agree but my responsibility is firstly my child after that it's hubbie and animals simple as
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Oh yes, I certainly wasn't suggesting that you should keep riding him, that would be madness and extremely cruel, as he obviously has a problem. As he is easy on the ground, if you can afford to, I would have him vet checked and discuss the possibility of scoping for ulcers but the first thing I would do is stop feeding him carrots, any amount at any time.
He's not really a project, he is potentially a walking vet bill.
 
Cluelessblonde said:
Completely agree but my responsibility is firstly my child after that it's hubbie and animals simple as
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What a lovely horse owner you sound. There are a plenty of things you can be responsible for without putting yourself directly back in a position of getting hurt. I don’t see anyone suggest you get back on and you say he is absolutely fine from the ground. Your sentence of “I was just going to sell” has made me quite sad. Lots of good advice already, test bloods, contact dealer and contact a vet all of which would cross my mind before selling on would.
 
Cluelessblonde said:
Completely agree but my responsibility is firstly my child after that it's hubbie and animals simple as
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No, you bought a horse. Your responsibility is to make sure that horse is pain-free and comfortable, which he clearly isn't.

Lots of good advice above...

Vet check first. Test bloods from vetting for any painkillers/sedatives.

Then speak to dealer about a refund as he is clearly not fit for purpose. Get legal advice from your insurance/bhs.

Only then, can you even consider selling. Even so, it would be for a non ridden home.

Please, please, do not sell on as another project!
 
If you return him to the dealer to be honest it isn't any different from selling him on. I would not personally find that acceptable. You may be able to get a refund though. After 8 weeks you won't be able to exercise consumer rights; you have 30 days to return a product not fit for purpose. But if you paid by credit card or another insurance backed method you might have longer. But if part of that refund is returning the horse then I would not personally find that morally acceptable. The same thing will just happen again. Definitely get the blodds checked. If he was doped you have a stronger legal claim.

I have no issue with PTS rather than sell on or place any obligation on someone to retire a horse they cannot afford to grass. But I would echo those who say you should make some effort to find out what the issue is. Whatever the "niggles" were you say were identified at vetting is going to be a place to start. I get your point that PTS might be the same outcome now as later but for me I feel that you have an obligation to the horse as a living creature to make some effort rather than just destroy. Did you insure him? If so at least exhaust the vet cover.

Only other thought - you say he is 15.2. Might be bit a touch taller? If he is and over 550Kgs you could look at signing him over to the blood bank as an alternative to PTS.
 
If he is sweet on the ground then his behaviour under saddle will be pain related, he won't be out to hurt someone but will be responding to pain he is feeling.
You really do owe it to the horse to find out what is wrong before passing him on, if it is a workable problem then you sell him on will full disclosure to someone knowledgeable who can work through the problems and keep him.
Your safety is of course the most important thing but you took ownership of an animal and are responsible for his safety. PTS is a viable option and one that does keep him safe long term.
Of course you could always sell this one, buy another and end up in the same sitution over and over again, it may be that he needs more work and is just super fresh and a broker when feeling that way, he may never have been backed properly etc etc.
Super safe mum hacks in my experience rarely end up with dealers, they get homed by word of mouth.
 
You do have a responsibility to the poor horse, he's clearly in pain.
He's probably got ulcers (no weight loss needed) from either the niggles that showed up on the vetting and/or the ill fitting tack. 2 months isn't long to have sorted these problems.
Has he got company? I'm just wondering if there's a link between this 'problem' horse and the last one.
Please don't sell him as a project horse it rarely ends well, even if you give him away he'd have to land very lucky for someone to poor money in to finding out where his pain comes from.
 
My mare was obese when she was scoped with ulcers. I actually think she was over eating as a stress response.

The last horse who blind bolted with me was a horse i knew well and had ridden a lot. I managed to ram her into a high hedge and threw myself off. I have no doubt she would have hurt me but it wasn't aimed at me - just a prey animal in full flight response to something causing pain. We never found out what happened but she was incredibly sore all along her back & her pelvis - took months to get her right. She wasn't lame and didn't react to the saddle or in walk. The bolt happened within a few strides of asking for trot. I'd bet money on your horse responding to pain.
 
My cob who I got from a riding school with a 5 star vetting nearly 2 years ago has just been diagnosed with PSSM type 1, thanks to a moment of genius after some careful listing and thinking by my vet. Ongoing misbehaving at odd times and as my yard owner says, he had a lot of the symptoms at different times... but is a muscle problem caused by not enough exercise / warm up and too much starch in their diets. It does cause them pain. The riding school regime suited him better than his more leisurely life with me. Can I suggest you do some reading in it, there’s a Facebook group too, and see if it rings a bell?
 
If you are unwilling to investigate the cause of such extreme and dangerous behaviour the kindest thing you can do for this horse is have him put to sleep although I can’t think why you wouldn’t at least get bloods checked and go back to the dealer first. Do you have insurance cover for vet fees?

Obviously this is not an ideal situation and one none of us would like to find ourselves in, but you own the horse now and therefore have a responsibility to do right by him rather than pass the problem on. I hate to think what he has probably suffered already. There is clearly something very, very wrong with him. What is your ‘extremely knowledgeable ex jockey’ friends opinion?
 
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