I clearly have too much time on my hands. It seems like someone is telling porkies...

[charlimouse]

Due to the fact all my friends have gone to live at the furthest end of the country away from me (they do say it is nothing to do with me !) I am to be found on a Saturday night having a nosey on the BE horse classified area of the BE website. I'm throughly enjoying the insane prices most of the horses are advertised for . Now on my search I have come across a horse for sale, on the face of it doesn't sound too insanely expensive (compared to the others ), until you actually look at it's record (1 BE90 run, eliminated SJ) Thing is the reason the owners give for it being eliminated is different to the reason BE gives ! I love the fact a horse's BE record is so comprehensive, there really is no hidng a bad result. Now contemplating e-mailing vendors just to see what they say, but prehaps that is a little cheeky!!!!! Just makes me mad when people blatantly lie.

Oh I forgot, i'm sure the BE record is wrong, the horse didn't get eliminated for 3 refusals SJ as BE say, I am certain the stirrup leather really did break..................................... Cynical moi????

 

[only_me]

lol, you really can't hide anything when comp records are online!

I love Eventing Ireland, you can even see the marks given for each dressage movement!

 

[Gamebird]

Hmmm, I've seen people pull up before the end XC with a couple of fences to go and one more refusal allowed before eliminatioin as they'll get an R rather than an E and could say that a stirrup leather had broken. However I'm damned sure that I've never ridden a horse round a BE90 SJing that I couldn't have finished the course on had a stirrup leather broken and I've had some tricky 'uns!

 

[charlimouse]

They claim they fell off due to stirrup leather breaking in advert. But if this is the case it would be a retirement as you are allowed to fall off in BE SJ (I have experiance of that!) and only get 8 pens. Hmmmmmmmmmmm all is not as it seams!

 

[kerilli]

sometimes the officials do get it wrong though... either way, not getting round BE90 sj is not great!

 

[avthechav]

Charliemouse, I fully sympathise- I too must have far too much time on my hands and get a bit obsessive about checking stuff out. There is a girl who I know who has recently advertised her ex-racer for extortionate amounts of money. The Advert should have been written by Disney its soooooooooo imaginative. Now certain things cant be checked out, but a fantasy BD regional win (horse hasnt even competed BD), figment double clears at BE90 (horse placed in a BE80 and completed a BE90), and fabricated county show wins are easily checked out, and to top it all off she writes in the advert that the horse is 7 when its BE and racing post record clearly states that it is 9!

(Stupid thing that this horse although no world beater is actually a lovely type who has done much to be proud of, but she makes the good stuff irrelevant by exagerating sooooooo much!)

 

[charlimouse]

sometimes the officials do get it wrong though... either way, not getting round BE90 sj is not great!

Especially when the horse is being sold as a perfect JRN for over £6K . Plus of you were selling your horse you would surely have emailed BE and asked them to correct the ER3 to R on the record???????

 

[dominobrown]

The BE website is a wonderful thing
I especially like looking up instructors etc who claim to be 'event' riders who have competed either in 3 or 4 BE90's with cricket scores, or the best event rider yet- one BE90 on a ticket and E xc.
The truth is out there....

 

[Gamebird]

I once had an R for a horse that should have been E'd - I 'forgot' to complain about that one (and in case anyone asks, my stirrup leather broke ).

 

[Gamebird]

The BE website is a wonderful thing
I especially like looking up instructors etc who claim to be 'event' riders who have competed either in 3 or 4 BE90's with cricket scores, or the best event rider yet- one BE90 on a ticket and E xc.
The truth is out there....

I was once in the prize-giving for an inter-hunt relay on a particularly wriggly horse. Next to me was someone from a different hunt whose horse was also misbehaving. I knew she evented too so I said, in the spirit of camaraderie, 'isn't it just as well that BE prize-giving are on foot'. She said 'oh, he's just as bad at mounted 3DE prize-givings'. That was a very silly thing to say in the age of internet BE records as I went home and checked and she'd done one 3DE and come something like 76th. I don't think they require you at a mounted prize-giving for that!

 

[charlimouse]

The BE website is a wonderful thing
I especially like looking up instructors etc who claim to be 'event' riders who have competed either in 3 or 4 BE90's with cricket scores, or the best event rider yet- one BE90 on a ticket and E xc.
The truth is out there....

I was out hunting one day when a very posh looking lady arrived with grooms, okley with pop out etc. Me being nosy went over and introduced myself (well you never know ). She somewhat looked down her nose at me, the conversation then went along these lines:
"Gosh you don't get this rif raff at proper events!"
I asked what she meant by 'proper events', to which she said:
"Oh, like affilliated events"
I said that i'd done a fair few affilliated events, and asked which ones she had done. To which she said:
"Oh all the big ones, people like you wouldn't be able to do them"

When I got home I looked her up on BE. 1 result at BE90, E'd in the dressage !

Never saw her hunting again!

 

[racingdemon]

I love that... along with horses that are 'almost advanced' but have yet to get past PN!

 

[kerilli]

Especially when the horse is being sold as a perfect JRN for over £6K . Plus of you were selling your horse you would surely have emailed BE and asked them to correct the ER3 to R on the record???????

BE won't change things on the records. I know because I was given 20 xc pens for doing a long route, deliberately, which i had on video and showed the regional director (who agreed i'd deliberately done the long route, it wasn't a run out, it was fence judge's error) but BE still refused to change it. the first xc pens on that horse's record in years. i was livid and am still bitter about it, she didn't deserve the penalties at all. serves me right for not waiting for all results to be up... you MUST appeal on the day or not at all.
so, sometimes mistakes do get made.
there was a sequence of pics of an absolute purler of a fall where the horse turned over, thankfully both horse and rider unharmed, and it was on horse's record as UR...

 

[charlimouse]

Yon are correct kerilli, I have a RHF on my record (retired horse fall) surely it should be EHF?! However it does strike me a fishy that this is this horse's only BE event, and the sellers are using the old tack malfunction story! If I had a horse I was planning on selling and I had a genuine tack malfunction in the SJ, I would get the horse entered for another event ASAP to prove to potential purchasers it was a genuine blip.

 

[oldvic]

One year at Blair Matt Ryan had a fall on the cross country at a bounce at the bottom of the hill. It wasn't noticed until later that night that he had been given no jumping penalties and there was no proof that he'd had the fall so it couldn't be changed (it was about 4 hours after the TD had signed the results so too late and the ground jury weren't given their print-outs until late that night). It is possible for scores to be incorrect.

 

[Santa_Claus]

There is another classic one I have found. under experience it states 6 runs at BE80 and BE90. Of those 6 runs it completed 2. They are not lying admittedly but not exactly honest! but as you say very very easy to check record!

 

[CastleMouse]

I think the seller is exactly like the horse's name

 

[kerilli]

There is another classic one I have found. under experience it states 6 runs at BE80 and BE90. Of those 6 runs it completed 2. They are not lying admittedly but not exactly honest! but as you say very very easy to check record!

yes... but don't forget also that the BE database has weird holes and routes missing in it. people aren't necessarily lying, sometimes bits of data are hidden, only viewable by a different route. i know this from looking up my own records. if i look under my name, only about half of one horse's record comes up. if i look under her name, the whole thing comes up. my horse 'XL' has too short a name for the database search, but comes up under my name... if you want the full picture, click on horse's name from rider's name search page, and more often comes up.
oh, and on one of my results, time penalties and jump penalties xc have been swapped. (92 jump penalties? i don't think so. that was the year that it was a time penalty per second, rather than per 0.4 secs, and we had a fall on the flat. annoying to have it down as jump pens though.)
BE won't change them once they're on the database, even if there's an obvious, prove-able, error.
no excuse at all for telling porkies, especially when selling, or claiming that your Novice horse is actually Advanced though - a friend treated a horse and the owner boasted that it was Advanced, when she checked it had about 4 points!

 

[diggerbez]

haha it does make me smile how inventive people are with horse's records. i went to look at one with a friend- was advertised as a super allrounder, asked if she thought it would go intro- yes it definitely would, she just wanted to go intermediate and it wouldn't go that far. she said it had never been BE and gave its 'show name' as the same as its stable name.

went home looked HER rider record up and she had a horse on there, same breeding, age, sex as the one i'd seen- rather a large BE record in which there were clearly problems SJing as several elims at BE90.

also a lady on my yard who loves to give me advice about BE (don't get me wrong i'm always open to advice- but from knowledgeable people) and tells me lots of stories about when she did BE on her old horse. turns out she did two- one she got elim SJ and the other she had 2 stops XC....er no i don't need your advice thanks

 

[TGM]

I know of a similar case where a horse was advertised for sale. Owner said that he was being sold because his SJ wasn't as good as she needed for eventing, but he was fab cross-country. Looked up his BE record to see his XC record was full of Es and refusals!

 

[diggerbez]

although having thought about this a bit more there are some very silly people out there who will take everything a seller says word for word and not try to check it out. someone on my yard (can you see a theme here about some of the people on my yard ) bought a horse for eventing and didn't check its record out- was full of elims XC- when they finally took it to a BE- guess what happened- it got elim XC!

although advertising such a horse on the BE website with a clear link to results is a probably a bit silly

 

[MerryMAL]

I looked at a horse 'that popped round BE novice courses'...no BE record at all!
We did get it on trial as it was a v. talented little warmblood but was also mental outside of a menage or box - how exactly would that event??

 

[langside]

Well i'm bored now - thanks to the weather once again stopping play so i'll join in too charliemouse - although i'm sure you've already spotted it

There is a certain horse advertised in a few places as being for sale due to rider having no time due to uni and now work commitments - quite a realistic reason for selling but its price is realistic/ acheiveable without winning the lotto

Horse has proven itself - 40+ points but has missed 1 and a half seasons - but again due to reason you can uinderstand this - and people might not look further - could also explain price

Yet if you look at riders record said rider has manged to compete over 8 horses in the season (each with over 5 runs) where this horse has not

Do a quick google search to find riders website/ twitter or facebook page and hey presto they have one

The horse advertised is listed with comp record and pictures and a little write up which includes the information said horse has been out of action since XXX date when he/she damaged their tendon

The main porkey of the ad though has to be that it quotes 'THIS HORSE HAS NEVER BEEN SICK NOR SORRY!!'

So yes the internet can be an amazing thing but people think they can still get away wth these things and sometimes probably will so you'll always get the naughty sellers and buyers

 

[charlimouse]

Well i'm bored now - thanks to the weather once again stopping play so i'll join in too charliemouse - although i'm sure you've already spotted it

There is a certain horse advertised in a few places as being for sale due to rider having no time due to uni and now work commitments - quite a realistic reason for selling but its price is realistic/ acheiveable without winning the lotto

Horse has proven itself - 40+ points but has missed 1 and a half seasons - but again due to reason you can uinderstand this - and people might not look further - could also explain price

Yet if you look at riders record said rider has manged to compete over 8 horses in the season (each with over 5 runs) where this horse has not

Do a quick google search to find riders website/ twitter or facebook page and hey presto they have one

The horse advertised is listed with comp record and pictures and a little write up which includes the information said horse has been out of action since XXX date when he/she damaged their tendon

The main porkey of the ad though has to be that it quotes 'THIS HORSE HAS NEVER BEEN SICK NOR SORRY!!'

So yes the internet can be an amazing thing but people think they can still get away wth these things and sometimes probably will so you'll always get the naughty sellers and buyers

Is this the 15yo grey mare? If so I know the owner (not the current rider)! Although I don't know the horse in question so can't comment on weather porkies are being told. However due to the horse having recent intermediate form, even with an old injury the price seems realistic.

 

[langside]

Is this the 15yo grey mare? If so I know the owner (not the current rider)! Although I don't know the horse in question so can't comment on weather porkies are being told. However due to the horse having recent intermediate form, even with an old injury the price seems realistic.

no not the one i am on about - i don't know this horse/ the people so they might clear things up if you enquire and point it out
but i do wonder if they don't realise that this info is on their website as it hasn't been updated recently

 

[Santa_Claus]

agree there can be holes in the data but the 6 'runs' match the ad and whichever way you go to record through horse or rider show 6. BUT they are not lying as it has competed in 6 BE events, it just hasn't COMPLETED 6!

In the same way I can say Fleur competed in BE and BSJA age classes as a 5yo which would sound fairly impressive, truth is she did one BE 5yo PN getting about 6 fences into the XC as was having major temper tantrums and did a BSJA 5yo style and performance qualifier in addition to some of Bicton's young horse classes. Completed them all but no placings. For those reasons they would never be included in an advert if she was ever for sale, not that she ever will be

 

[Santa_Claus]

more spare time on my hands

The prices really do interest me, a horse who is in its early teens has completed novice (only 1 dc) but last completion at that level 6ish years and last xc clear at N 7ish years is priced the same as a 9yo with a pretty impressive record at intro and PN with its last two runs of 2010 being novice double clears (with top 10 placings) although it seemingly had a bad year with a different rider in the middle but personally I would happily ignore those results! Know which one I would buy on paper

 

[TheoryX1]

Maybe I ought to take a peek when I have a bit of time to spare. Best one I can tell you about is from personal experience (not mine, I hasten to add, but a friend). Said friend bought a fairly expensive WB with a reasonable BE record for her teenager. Said child proceeded to decimate its record, very long story, but its BE record had lots of Es, Rs and WDs all over it. Coupled with lots of dressage scores in the 50s as well.

Anyway, said relationship was going knowhere, teenagers was getting upset at lack of results, mother was getting upset at teenager and I have seen at first hand her mother yelling at her. Anyway, horsey was put up for sale for £10K (what they paid for her) as 'A Perfect JRN Horse'. They had a few people look at her, mainly PC people (not from our PC I would add), and a few kids who we know vaguely. Funny thing was that they all said it was too 'Well schooled' and walked away. Mother got a bit panicky that it wouldnt sell and eventually sold it to adult to do some intros on for £4K.

The best thing was they offered it to my daughter to do JRNs on for £10K. Poor thing had difficulties getting around a BE100 without time penalties and a cricket score. We did decline by the way.

 

[Jul]

It amazes me that people don't realise how transparent their porkies can be.

My favourite one was when I was telling someone that I planned to hopefully do Intros soon on my (then) young horse as she was XC schooling nicely.

"Oh I didn't bother with Intros," says she, "Really PNs are too small for my horse, but I will do a couple more before I take him Novice" (said in a very patronising way).

So I had to look then, didn't I? She did indeed start at PN, but of the first 20 runs, they were E'd or R'd at 10 of them and scores of over 100 at four. No double clears whatsoever and only 3 clears XC.

Hmm, perhaps starting at Intro may have been a better idea after all?! (They haven't ben novice to date by the way). Really wound me up as it was the way she said it so scornfully!

 

[Badders]

We have done months of searching ads recently looking for horses and am no longer amazed by anything anyone says! or the prices that are asked for so called eventers! After finding an advert for a likely sort, a quick scroll around BE mainly proved that they were to be avoided at all costs and saved us many miles of travel if nothing else!
Eventually we bought a youngster..... then we know exactly what she has done!