I despair!! The harder we work, the worse our results get... STRESSAGE RUT!!

Hels_Bells

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So another BE Novice outing for Remy and the dizzy blonde today (will try to do an event report asap but really wasn't as eventful as the last one). And our personal worst dressage result of 42.5 to accompany it.

The worst thing is that we have been working so hard on our dressage and it's just soul destroying. This time last year we were at a stage where we were on the cusp of sub-30 scores and a 34.0 was bad for us. Admittedly we have gone up a level now but our results just get worse and worse and I am really beginning to despair and feel very down about it all.

Where to begin... Remy was in general very difficult when I first got him and I remember our first ever test after "ironing him out" I was just elated that he went calmly and didn't leave the arena etc (it was still probably our best ever test results relatively speaking!). Nearly every trainer etc who has seen him remarks that he is a lovely horse to watch, has expressive paces, elevation etc and generally has the ability to do very well especially at the higher levels which has always given me hope. Judges always seem to like him but I wonder if I'm doing him justice sometimes.

We soon began to event and worked at home just me and Remy with the odd lesson from our trainer who is a very much a put them in the outline, keep them there, push them forwards, no messing around sort of person. We would get good results but I never felt quite happy with the "forcing" of an outline and being hard on his mouth. I wanted to be in a place where I could have him come into an outline through working from behind and correctly etc not rely on heavy hands.

After a season with some reasonable marks the opportunity to get some lessons with a classical Spanish trainer arose. The person in question has and amazing record and trained with an SRS Maestro for many years to the highest levels. I was really interested to have a try and I just loved her style. It was all about the rear end and very little to do with harsh contact and she thought Remy was fantastic (she says she can not believe she would ever be so fond of a warmblood having worked with Spanish horses for 40 years) and she's taught us so much about "feel" and in training we have produced some moments of brilliance, however, when it comes to doing a test we just don't seem to be able to put out!!

So we have been having lessons pretty much twice weekly for some months now and have really improved problems such as unsteady head carriage and resistance of the bit that he was suffering from and have learned lots of new movements inc med trot and canter, leg yeilding, rein back etc (all required for Novice tests).

We have had a couple of events where trainer has come with us to guide us in warm-up etc, and we get him going really well but still it goes quite flat in the test. Today in warm-up I was delighted as he really started to produce his wonderful comfy trot (without trainer there) that we have got him to do at home but by the time we circled the arena for our test he started to poke his nose and resist the bit and I just knew after one or two movements this was unlikely to be a good one. And so we scored our worst result ever. They just keep going down and steadily down. :(

The past 2 weeks we have been having some problems with Remy in that he is basically a bit of a lazy guy as our test results constantly suggest that he just "trundles" along rather than making an effort. We know he's got it in there but it takes a lot to get him to produce "it". We've addressed feeding, looked carefully at his weekly routine, introduced spurs, had his back done, worked on warm-up plans etc etc but he just doesn't light up consistently like we know he can from time to time! So we decided to introduce the schooling whip to give him a tap to wake him up and get him to focus and put some effort in to his work. The first time it worked brilliantly, but since then he has just thrown tantrum after tantrum once he is tapped with the whip. He is just so inconsistent. One day X works the next day it produces a tantrum. Then Y works 3 or 4 times then he learns to resist it and finds new way of evading it.

I'm just really despairing. I'm a competent rider, fairly switched on and level, I have a horse with great potential and we work really hard with a great trainer. Yet we just can't seem to get the results that those we compete against do. One of my favourite sayings in life is "the harder I work, the luckier I get".... at the moment it's more like "the harder we work, the less rewards we reap". I just don't know where to go from here and am just feeling really fed up, down, sad and a bit miserable! :confused:

I know this post has been fairly self-indulgent/of a cathartic nature, but any good old HHO thoughts, vibes, comments, words of wisdom or encouragement would be very welcome! All suggestions and ideas welcome.

Once it's finished uploading to YouTube I'll post a link to today's test plus some previous ones in time order in case anyone wants to take a look to see how he's changed over time. I know where we're going wrong but in our tests we just can't seem to cut out the rot.
 
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SnowGoose

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I think sometimes when you are trying to change the horses way of going you need to accept the marks may get worse in the short term but the benefits in the long run will be well worth it.

My boy hit a bit of a brick wall over the winter. He would get good marks in his dressage tests- low thirties at BE100, even got into the 20's unaff, was always 65%+ unaff prelim and nov but never felt nice. he was very short in his neck and not working through his back, however he has long legs so didnt look short in his movement, kept his head vertical and i try to be very accurate in my tests so he didnt really drop too many marks. problems came when i started prepping him for nov BE, because he wasnt soft through his back it was difficult to get him to engage behind and he just got more and more resistant. At the beginning of may i decided to cut my losses, go to a new trainer and start again from scratch. His marks are worse now than they were last year as he is a little inconsistant in his head carriage and he is still learning to carry himself so we are a bit up and down. however he is lovely and soft through his back, i can put his head where i want it when i want to rather than him being short and fixed. his whole top line has changed, he has gone up a saddle width due to the extra muscle he's developing and i now feel i can start to pick him up and ask for more which i couldnt have before. I have tried not to worry about his dressage scores using our ODE's more this year to educate him more in SJ and XC, choosing events i know will have more questions on the XC or very up to height SJ courses, and gauged our progress by the feel he has given me rather than our final score. i can now honestly say i feel very confident about moving him up to novice based on the way he is jumping, his dressage will hopefully keep moving forward over the winter and we will come back next spring in a position to be much more competitive.

dont despair, it will be worth it in the long run, for the time being dont overanalyse your scores, you know he is starting to produce moments of really good work, its just going to take time for him to develop the muscle to be consistent doing it, when he has that you will be unstoppable :D

ETA: mine can also be lazy in dressage (but surprizingly energetic when he goes into the SJ warmup!) and have started to use spurs. he also grumps sometimes but on reflection i think these are down to him finding the increased work i am asking for difficult and its a bit of a resistance. the more we do, the more muscle he builds and the easier he finds the movements, the more i can ask before he starts grumping (tails swishing and ears back are about as far as he takes it!) just keep reminding yourself if you are completely changing the way he goes, its going to take time for him to adjust.
 
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racingdemon

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The past 2 weeks we have been having some problems with Remy in that he is basically a bit of a lazy guy as our test results constantly suggest that he just "trundles" along rather than making an effort. We know he's got it in there but it takes a lot to get him to produce "it".

you could write that about my horse.... about the only time he EVER really lights up is when hounds are in full cry..... & i don't think anyone else would appreciate it if someone blew a hunting horn every time i warm up!!!

nothing really to suggest, but just wanted to say i feel your pain! ;-)
 

SusannaF

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My (possibly totally worthless) input: does he maybe need a bit of a hoon around on a beach? Or to try something like working equitation that's similar to dressage but a bit different? Just temporarily. Can you tell if he's lazy because he's bored or just lazy?

He sounds gorgeous though, and I do envy you the classical lessons. It must be incredibly frustrating.
 

Holidays_are_coming

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I have nothing helpful to add but I really feel your pain, my mare has gone from having no sort of contact to a fairly consistent one but is getting worse marks, I really wanted to slit my wrists!!! I have given eventing a bit of a break because of it!!! Good luck he sounds lovely!!!
 

LEC

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Do you have a real plan in your warm up? Have you tried barely warming up? Lunging earlier and then just going in? Galloping around the warm up? Cantering round the arena before the judges bell? Does he drop behind your leg? Does he respond to voice aids? Have you tried a drop noseband? Change of bit?

Sometimes little tweaks can make all the difference.
 

DarkHorseB

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Another to say I feel your pain!!
I feel my horse has come on loads in his flatwork in the last 12 months but our marks just don't show it :confused: I don't think I will ever really "get" stressage! It seems to be particularly eventing dressage too - BD dressage he does much better I swear they must look for something different for eventing!!
 

PorkChop

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Just wanted to say well done for having the guts to go back to basics and change trainer - you will be glad you did it.

If it makes you feel any better I have been searching for a classical trainer in my area for ages with no luck, so you are in a better position than you think.

Good luck for the rest of the season and just think how fab you will be with a winter's flatwork behind you x
 

VRIN

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I was hoping someone might have a solution for you as I have a similar problem - my horse is so lazy and seems to know when we have entered the arena and just drops off the leg!

I have tried all sorts - including suggestions above .. and in between times we go to the beach, gallops ..lots to keep him interested in life!

I am keeping my fingers crossed someone might have a suggestion yet...but just to say know how you feel!
 

Hels_Bells

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Oh you have all made me feel so much better - thanks so much SG, lui, RD, DHB and VRIN, so nice to hear others are feeling somewhat in the same boat!!

Susanna F - he gets loads of variety, including quite a lot of galloping etc. I did take him to the beach for the first time a few weeks ago and he was absolutely stunned by it, didn't know what to think!!! ;)

LJR - I am lucky you are right, she's a family friend so only really teaches us as a favour as she's really retired through illness. I really do like and understand her style which makes me want to keep sticking with it even if we have to get worse to get better.

Thanks LEC - all good suggestions - we do have a bit of a set warmup we have worked out, but I haven't tried not warming up. I may try this in an unaffiliated event but have to say that he usually takes a while to settle into a nice outline etc and does tend to start off hollow when we're warming up so probably would just end up going that way in the test, though it may well be worth a try! I haven't tried cantering around the arena, that would probably throw the little monkey so I might try that next time (and he does have a lovely canter so it might set the judges off on a positive note!!!). He does drop behind the leg and often responds to voice aids. I have tried a flash but not a drop, and I have also tried him in a fixed and loose ring french link snaffle - neither made much difference to his way of going but stuck with the loose ring (NS Team-up bit) as he did have a slight leaning problem at one point which this helped. All great ideas, I might just try another bit or a drop noseband. Am also thinking about trying another type of feed to see if that gives him a bit more enthusiasm. Also, although he is fit enough for Novice he could be a bit fitter so I'm going to work on that over the next week or two which may help him with his enthusiasm... I hope.

Thanks again everyone for making me feel much better. Do keep the suggestions coming if you have them though!!!
 

SpottedCat

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If you need him a bit more lit up, how about doing most of your warmup in or next to the XC warmup then going to the dressage just before your time?
 

Kwalk

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You must feel so frustrated.

I haven't read previous posts as I am in a rush, so my apologies if I repeat anything.

One or two points to consider;

Have you thought about getting out of the arena for a few weeks and only going in to compete? This is not to say it would work, but he may be feeling a bit stale? Might be worth a try, even as a last ditch attempt.

How fit is he? He sounds to me like he cant be bothered, so maybe that is one of the first points to assess?

Again, have you tried feeding him up? I have found equi-jewel to be a bit of a God send for some of our "flatter" individuals.

I completely sympathise with you, and I know the sinking feeling when you enter the ring and just know that it's all going to go downhill in a matter of seconds. Unfortunately, subconciously, your riding will alter and i'd imagine a level of desperation would creep in when you feel him falling away from you , and im guilty of it too, you may begin overriding and simply make the problem worse?
 

Hels_Bells

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You must feel so frustrated.

Have you thought about getting out of the arena for a few weeks and only going in to compete? This is not to say it would work, but he may be feeling a bit stale? Might be worth a try, even as a last ditch attempt.

How fit is he? He sounds to me like he cant be bothered, so maybe that is one of the first points to assess?

Again, have you tried feeding him up? I have found equi-jewel to be a bit of a God send for some of our "flatter" individuals.

I completely sympathise with you, and I know the sinking feeling when you enter the ring and just know that it's all going to go downhill in a matter of seconds. Unfortunately, subconciously, your riding will alter and i'd imagine a level of desperation would creep in when you feel him falling away from you , and im guilty of it too, you may begin overriding and simply make the problem worse?

Thanks Kwalk - I am very much considering giving him a break from dressage for a few weeks but then we are scheduled to run at allerton in 3 weeks time and the test for that is a really tricky one which includes counter canter... something he's really struggled with so far and we were hoping to work on it between now and then. Then our season is almost over so he can have all the break he needs... really torn on what to do!

Thanks so much for the tip of Equi-Jewell - he is being fed staypower muesli in fairly serious quantities along with plenty of oats which seem to make no difference to him whatever. As for fitness.. he's fit as a fiddle in that he's getting round Novice XC phase really well and recovering pretty quickly, though I am going to try to up his fitness a bit to see if he becomes more perky if he's fitter!

Quite agree on the subconscious thing... I think it does affect nearly all of us on some level, I try to take a nice dose of rescue remedy to keep me as calm as possible!
 

Kwalk

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Rescue Remedy? Try Whiskey. Always made me chill out and giggle my way through. ;)

Let us know what you decide to do, i'd be interested to hear.

I have a real problem with one of our Polo ponies in that she switches off if she plays more than once a week... not ideal if they're playing 3 or 4 games a week and she's one of the few sound ones we have left. Equijewel has just given her that extra buzz or kick to pep her up before every game... thank God!

x
 

Gamebird

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Haven't read all the replies - hit a personal low of 50.5 a few weeks ago for a test I thought was pretty reasonable (at the very least all the right things in the right places in the right outline!). I showed the vid and sheet to a top level international judge/instructor and he said that whilst not perfect it shouldn't have been worse than 63-65% (35-37 BE) in his opinion :(.

We have one that has to jump a couple of warm-up SJs/XC fences before its test and another that comes straight off the lorry into the test with no warm-up at all. Perhaps try both approaches and see if either works? (just be a bit crafty about the warm-up stewards in the jumping rings - they don't always appreciate it! ;))
 

Hels_Bells

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Rescue Remedy? Try Whiskey. Always made me chill out and giggle my way through. ;)

Let us know what you decide to do, i'd be interested to hear.

I have a real problem with one of our Polo ponies in that she switches off if she plays more than once a week... not ideal if they're playing 3 or 4 games a week and she's one of the few sound ones we have left. Equijewel has just given her that extra buzz or kick to pep her up before every game... thank God!

x

Hahaha! Whiskey... I probably should give it a whirl!!

Really interesting about the equi-jewell - I just took a look at it online. Am just a bit worried that he will gain weight on it as he's at that just right stage right now where I don't want him any fatter or thinner!!! :rolleyes:

CM - thanks for the kind words!! :)
 

SpottedCat

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This is JUST what I was wondering the other day!!!! He gets VERY exicited about his SJ I do wonder if doing a jump or two first would help!!

Well I suffer from the same issue SJ (only it is my fault) - last event the XC ran right past the SJ warmup and it put him straight into XC mode, which meant he was amazingly off the leg, meaning we jumped clear, because he was so forward it counteracted my tendency to get tense and tight in the shoulders and hold a bit too much. So I fully intend to warm up for SJ via the XC at my next event and see if it helps!!
 

diggerbez

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HB- i feel your pain! i honestly don't get the whole dressage thing. my old grey horse used to be overbent and too short in the neck but unless he had a complete paddy in the test he got decent scores- around 35 and above consistently- but it always felt horrid. my bay horse is much nicer to ride and yet consistently scores worse than the grey- he's not entirely secure into the contact and i understand why he's losing marks- but he goes much nicer than the grey ever did- thats what i don't quite understand?!
my scores on the bay have also got worse since i've been working more on the Dressage. i'm clinging to the hope that its changing his way of going for the better and that in the long run the scores will improve as before he wasn't working correctly- he wwas getting away with things at prelim but would get found out when i moved up the levels.....
 

CAH7

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I sympathise too! We have got so much worse in the last year. I'm never quite sure what I'm going to get - stuffy and backward or strong, tense and spooky. In fact, as a last resort I went to a showing show today, did the working hunter, then worked in for a dressage test and had a lovely, forward-but-relaxed test - still tons to work on but vastly improved! So I second s_c's idea - if you can give him a jump or two first that may help. Best of luck!
 
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