I didnt believe vets actually did this......

star said:
until you've actually done a subcutaneous injection i dont think you're qualified to comment. it is incredibly easy to stick it through both layers of skin at once, but you wouldn't know that because you've never done it. i can guarantee you every single member of my practice has done it more than once. it doesn't make us all crap!
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How on earth do you know I have never done one :confused: You seem to have a big thing about this Star, when my OP stated (as I have said again later on in the thread) that I simply do not want her treating my animals. Please point out where I said she was crap for not giving an injection properly? Her treatment of the horse WAS crap, and the owner has already spoken to the practice owner and said that she is not prepared for said vet to treat her animals again. He understands that position fully
 
star said:
actually it's something that's not that hard to do. i've done it several times and i'm no new graduate. are you going to take the piss out of me too?? it doesn't make me a bad vet - it happens to everyone, nurses and vets included. it's no problem as long as you realise it's happened.
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Stick at it, Star, you'll get the hang of it, eventually. A top tip for you, place the needle alongside the skin which you've raised, NOT straight through it!

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Stick at it, Star, you'll get the hang of it, eventually. A top tip for you, place the needle alongside the skin which you've raised, NOT straight through it!

Alec.
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er, thanks for the tip - i'll pass that on to all my colleagues who i've seen do the same. obviously none of us know our jobs. could you be any more patronising?
 
If you don't like her as a vet fair do's, the injection mishap is indeed something that happens in my practice too, infact when I was the restrainer once, the inj squirted in my eye:D
We also had a vet jab herself with a misalliance inj by accident when the dog jumped sky high, she was also heavy pregnant, cue panic stations.
I have not done it with injection but I have mis sited an I.d chip, and it was my own cat:p
My trip up is always stabbing myself with needles because I never put the caps back on, (it hurts like hell) and I have burnt my eye ball with a caustic stick before.
I have also had plenty of horrendous experiences with Dr's and nurses in regard to bloods taking, its life I suppose, we are all only human.
 
star said:
er, thanks for the tip - i'll pass that on to all my colleagues who i've seen do the same. obviously none of us know our jobs. could you be any more patronising?
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I agree with star here, I find the step by step guidance very patronising, not sure if it was meant to be, star said she has "mis sited", not that she does not know how to inject and needs some advice:confused: (very odd)
 
Oh good for her..but really would prefer to know it was`nt in my area:D No really I have excellent vets over here with absolutely no attitude problems whatsoever. I`ve only ever shot an injection through,my very first..my defence is it was a goat ,and they have "funny" skin. They don`t..but I`ll stick with my story!
 
star said:
er, thanks for the tip - i'll pass that on to all my colleagues who i've seen do the same. obviously none of us know our jobs. could you be any more patronising?
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star, my response to you was actually intended as a leg-pull. It obviously missed it's target! I will say though, that I'd be staggered to hear that an experienced vet struggled with a sub-cut injection. I've dished out many thousands, and learnt the simplest, and most foolproof system, after the first two.

I'd be more than happy to call down, and demonstrate the simplest system. There'll be a call out charge, which I'm sure that you'll accept, and my hourly rate will be acceptable, I feel sure!! (more tongue-in-cheek!!)

I once watched a qualified vet attempt to put a calving cow down, who had little chance of survival, with a bottle of calcium, and I assure that it's the truth. I ended up shooting the poor creature.

I also once watched a vet do a sub-cut on a hamster! I was staggered, understandably, I think.

I will say, in closing, that I have witnessed many occurrences, where qualified vets have been very wrong. I would that it were otherwise, sadly it isn't.

Alec.
 
I don't think I have ever met a person who has NEVER in their life made a mistake. Personally or in their job. Its how you deal with that mistake that counts.

I can't count the mistakes I have made in my lifetime. And I'm glad I made many of them because making mistakes is the way you learn. I have seen people that have to be blunt just been lucky and never really made mistakes in a teaching setting even with bad technique. But then - when they do make a mistake out there in the field they panic and have no idea what to do. I did a plumbing course and I admit I flooded the workshop - water was going everywhere but I kept calm and sorted it out. I will never make that mistake again and I'm glad it happened in the workshop and not in my own house as happened to some of the others on my course.

I take it those of you that think simple mistakes don't happen have got 100% in every exam in their life, have never tripped over the kerb, have never had a shoelace come undone, have never said the wrong thing and upset someone. Oh to be perfect!
 
Alec Swan said:
star, my response to you was actually intended as a leg-pull. It obviously missed it's target! I will say though, that I'd be staggered to hear that an experienced vet struggled with a sub-cut injection. I've dished out many thousands, and learnt the simplest, and most foolproof system, after the first two.

I'd be more than happy to call down, and demonstrate the simplest system. There'll be a call out charge, which I'm sure that you'll accept, and my hourly rate will be acceptable, I feel sure!! (more tongue-in-cheek!!)

I once watched a qualified vet attempt to put a calving cow down, who had little chance of survival, with a bottle of calcium, and I assure that it's the truth. I ended up shooting the poor creature.

I also once watched a vet do a sub-cut on a hamster! I was staggered, understandably, I think.

I will say, in closing, that I have witnessed many occurrences, where qualified vets have been very wrong. I would that it were otherwise, sadly it isn't.

Alec.
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Are you sure that the bottle of calcium borogluconate was not the proper treatment for "milk fever"..or eclampsia as we call it in dogs? It is one of the best miracles you can perform on a cow or dog,if it works your moribund animal is bright eyed and bushy tailed in an hour.In your case it did`nt work, the high temperature they go up to can knacker the liver and kidneys...but it is a great feeling when it comes right.
 
I too have my favourite vet stories but they are funnies as I can't fault the care I normally get. We did have a funny with a locum who had to sedate my mare and ignored both my instructions and that of the YO to just go in and inject the mare - no introductions - just do it.

2 visits and 2 hours later, another vet had to come out ( with a student) got of the car, said hello, chatting to the student, walked into the stable with no preample, injected, carried on chatting, left!
 
You might have known you'd be wrong Carey... how dare you post a comment about ANYTHING?!:o:eek::mad::mad::mad:

Anyway, hadn't you heard that vets are actually god?:rolleyes: How dare you criticise, blasphemer:mad:
 
Anyway, hadn't you heard that vets are actually god?:rolleyes: How dare you criticise, blasphemer:mad:[/QUOTE]


That`s the problem sometimes ,is`nt it? And they are much worse when just off the production line . Mine however are great,we listen to each other,they don`t do instant referals (too expensive anyway) and will go that extra mile without showing any lack of enthusiasm..plus they ALL genuinely love dogs .
 
I think thats the crux of the matter, vets and owners should listen to each other. I have to admit I do consider one of the horse vets at the practice I use to be pretty close to God, but I'm not the only one. But he does discuss everything with me, and has said to me that owners know their horses better than anyone so we should be listened to. I think I possibly know as much if not a bit more than some of the vets at the practice about GSD specific problems, but again they are always willing to listen to my point of view.
 
EAST KENT said:
" And silence was the loud reply."...Alec????????
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Sorry, EK, I wasn't paying attention. As I'm a self opinionated, bombastic know all, and probably not that good at actually listening, progress with my vets, and that's Large Animal, Small, and Equine, has been slow. In my defence, I would say that not all vets have always listened to my input, either.

As with most arguments, and there have been some, believe me, eventually when both sides LISTEN to the other, then common ground is to be found. I accept, that so often, small animal vets will deal with clients who don't know the back from the front of the animal concerned. Just how they judge the level of experience, of the owner, I don't know. By asking questions, and then gauging the response, I suppose.

MurphysMinder seems to have managed it, so it can be done!

We have an ongoing and serious problem with a lurcher bitch, at the moment, (See the thread Advice...), and if I'm really honest I think that we're being given false hope. I am suitably cynical to believe, that many vets will suggest continued treatment for many animals, when they know, in their hearts, that the poor creature has little chance of a worthwhile life. I also realise that those same vets have a living to earn, and killing everything which enters their premises wouldn't make for a viable business!!

I suppose that when we come to the realisation that a vet's practice is a business, and not a charitable help line, then we can gauge for ourselves, the value of the advice which we're given. An interesting debate.

Alec.
 
It has to be said Alec that I have voted with my feet a few times over the years, but have been with this practice for nearly 20 years so they must be doing something right.:p
 
Oh good Alec,you are there after all.It must be hard to gauge ,for the vet,if said client does know enough for intelligent debate;so I suppose they start off anew with each of us with placatory head pats and stuff. Very irritating.Anyone in east Kent ..there is Animal House in Herne Bay and a Deal branch..it`s quite a trip for me,passing many other practices on the way..but excellent and won`t rob you.

Only time I burst out laughing at some advice was when James said that complete diets "had everything in them"..meaning they are a GOOD THING! At which I said that indeed I agreed..but not QUITE in the way he meant.He found it funny too
 
EAST KENT said:
Are you sure that the bottle of calcium borogluconate was not the proper treatment for "milk fever"..or eclampsia as we call it in dogs? It is one of the best miracles you can perform on a cow or dog,if it works your moribund animal is bright eyed and bushy tailed in an hour.In your case it did`nt work, the high temperature they go up to can knacker the liver and kidneys...but it is a great feeling when it comes right.
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E_K, calcium is, as you say brilliant for a cow with milk fever. The results can be spectacular, as we both know. In the event that a cow needs to be put down, by lethal injection, then you don't use calcium. You know that, and so do I, but the vet seemed oblivious to my suggestions. It wasn't my cow, I was stopped on the roadside, by the owner, and asked for assistance.

The cost of a caesar was discussed, and as the poor little thing was in such a state, it was discounted as an option.

The vet concerned lost his job, which was a pity. Had he listened to a layman, it might have saved him the embarrassment. I wont be responsible for the decisions of others.

Alec.
 
Have had several "interesting" encounters over the years which shows a bit of a trend and not only with newly qualified's!

I now no longer have vets near my horses teeth, have watched them struggle with the quietest of mares, use only one rasp for all the teeth and want to sedate in foal and lactating mares for fidgeting! No thank you, my dentist is brilliant with my horses, he gives them all the time they need and is not in a hurry and does them all in their fields using several rasps!

I asked specifically last year for just tetanus as a vaccination only to find that the vet had thought better of it and given a combined flu and tet. After a short discussion the vet said well I wont charge you for it, But that wasn't the bloomin point!!

Got a full lecture from a small animal vet about a horse with Laminitis, well I'm not surprised at all said he pointing at the big lush paddock. I let the boffin finish before calmly pointing at the crappy grass feed paddock to his left saying that's actually his home and the reason he has it is much more complicated than that if you will listen to me!!!!

I arrived at the yard several years ago to a friend's horse colicing. The vet from a general practice was very indecisive, I asked what drugs she had given and when and established that despite having received quite a hefty dose of pain killer half an hour before along with buscapan the horse was still showing signs of distress. The vet was willing at that point to drive away and leave us to monitor.

At this point I took over, asked her to stay whilst I hitched up a trailer and told her to book the horse into the Hospital, I got her to administer more pain killers and loaded the horse straight away and went straight to hospital, it was as I suspected an intussusception and the operating surgeon told me that the speed at which I got the horse to him had saved the whole section of gut.

I was laughed at for a theory I had over my choke prone old horse, every time he got to the hospital despite treatment at home he was free of choke. My theory, the speed bumps on the drive caused a forward and backward movement that freed the obstruction. The next time I put him in the trailer, drove him to a local industrial site and guess what? Yes and I did this on several other occasions as well with the same fee free result!

I was told off by an on duty hospital vet for deciding that my mare and her week old foal no longer needed to attend as her colic was improving! Complained to the top and got an apology for that one!!!

So these sorts of experiences and that of explaining raw feeding has made me challenge some decisions, just the same as I do with my Dr. An owners knowledge is invaluable and a lot of vets would do well to listen more, ergo the vet that Bluey's got recently, entirely her own fault, had she bowed to my knowledge of the dog and his capabilities she would not have had the problems she did, me I must admit I would have laughed, had she not let him get away with it and I had to deal with that as well!!!!

But I have had many good experiences as well so like all things in life there are good and bad!
 
Alec Swan said:
E_K, calcium is, as you say brilliant for a cow with milk fever. The results can be spectacular, as we both know. In the event that a cow needs to be put down, by lethal injection, then you don't use calcium. You know that, and so do I, but the vet seemed oblivious to my suggestions. It wasn't my cow, I was stopped on the roadside, by the owner, and asked for assistance.

The cost of a caesar was discussed, and as the poor little thing was in such a state, it was discounted as an option.

The vet concerned lost his job, which was a pity. Had he listened to a layman, it might have saved him the embarrassment. I wont be responsible for the decisions of others.

Alec.
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Not sure about the vet losing his job ..but whosoever let that heifer get in calf so young needs some lead poisoning in the head.Poor little thing.
 
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Think old age has finally caught up with me, I have read through Alecs posts several times and can't for the life of me can't see where he says how old the deceased cow was. Can someone please highlight it in large letters.:p

Ets. Hang on, think I am being a bit slow today, cancel the above.
 
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