i dont know what to do anymore :(

[DuckToller]

As the wise always say, don't pick a battle you can't win. If she won't lunge, don't - a conclusion you have already come to.

If she is fine in the summer, I would wait. Can you turn out in the school, walk her in hand to exercise her brain, anything to get her out of the stable, but if you are feeling worried, don't get on for now.

I have just sold my mare and am regretting it so don't rush into anything either. I wish I had just waited a few more weeks until the weather improves and she would have calmed down once she was out more.

If she is still a problem in the summer, you may well want to sell her then, but if she returns to her normal self then you can try to find a more suitable yard for next winter, even if it is further away. Perhaps she could be turned away for the winter months?

 

[Brimmers]

i would say that saying that someones head lecturer onl;y teaches because they can't ride it is a little harsh and unecessary
just my opinion, but i wouldn't be impressed if someone said my instructor only teaches because they can't ride it themselves

 

[YasandCrystal]

i dont see what the big deal is. i could get her out on lunge everyday and cry my eyes out, or deal with the fact its not something she will do. there are many things i wont do. turnout is a real pain. when she lives out at home in summer i dont see a sniff of a rear or bronk, and it is really getting to me here but people had some good ideas at yard and on here that i can try

I agree with what you are saying. Very frustrating indeed. Are you sure that it's not the imbalance of nutrients that is adding to her temperament in the winter? My WB is very calm is summer when he has grass and much more temperamental in winter when he is reliant on forage from me like his hay and feed. He is now turned out 24/7, but my grass is sparse.
I changed his diet and feed mag oxide to all mine now and calcium rich feed (locust bean) to quieten him.

Also other option is to give her the winter off. Many believe every horse should have at least a 3 month break every year

 

[YorksG]

If the only way the OP can keep this horse, is by a method which the horse cannot tolerate, ie insufficient turnout FOR THIS HORSE then in my opinion she should sell it. The horse is obviously very unhappy and the OP appears to be insufficiently concerned about the horses well being to find a way of meeting the animals needs.

 

[amycamycamyc]

If you take a big step back, it sounds like (through no fault of your own) you have the worst possible set-up for dealing with this - limited turnout, no regular instruction possible, difficult mare.
You need one of the three to change to make any progress

Then its just a process of elimation/choice at which one you are prepared to sort out.
Its very difficult for strangers on a forum to know which of the three would be easiest in your situation, but hopefully by thinking about it practically and rationally (and unavoidably a little emotionally) you can come to the right decision for you.

gosh i sound like a bad daytime tv psychologist...

 

[Ibblebibble]

i dont see what the big deal is. i could get her out on lunge everyday and cry my eyes out, or deal with the fact its not something she will do. there are many things i wont do. turnout is a real pain. when she lives out at home in summer i dont see a sniff of a rear or bronk, and it is really getting to me here but people had some good ideas at yard and on here that i can try

good for you, you stick to what you believe in,

 

[Hippona]

I have a horse who does this and I worked out he was fine-without the lunge whip. I have owned him since 2 and he is now 19 and I have never ever whipped him but I can lunge him much more safely without it. Just a thought. And good luck.

Same with mine....I twirl the end of the lunge line if needed to keep him going/move his legs....but he's really scared of the lunge whip to the point of panic......

 

[Tzarinaarabians]

Please dont jump down my throat, but a horse that is causing you upset and is not giving you 100% enjoyment - at the end of the day, you have a horse to enjoy it, not make you scared of riding her and endless worrying.

Can you sell her as a field only companion, does she have excellent bloodlines, maybe you could sell her as a potential broodmare. I'm not sure if I have missed how old the mare is. I am extremely sentimental about my horses but in the past I've had to admit when nothing else could be done and part company, but after all you have tried, if you cant find a solution, wouldnt you be best admitting you've done everything possible and maybe look for a new horse

 

[Beausmate]

My horse wouldn't lunge in one direction, he'd come at you all teeth and heels. We think someone clipped the lunge line to his bit and pulled him over backwards. This would have been when he was broken in. He had a lot of other issues too both physically and mentally. He lunges fine now, but it took ages and a very good sympathetic instructor to get him out of it. He was dangerous, would aim for your head and knew exactly what he was doing!

If he would have loose schooled (even more dangerous unrestrained!) I'd have stuck to that and sod the lungeing! Sounds like your horse is stressed at being in, so don't know what you could do if you can't turn out apart from finding somewhere else to put her. It's a difficult one. Think I'd try the loose schooling though. Could you get someone else to do it when the school is free if you can't get there then?

 

[Biscuit]

I would consider getting a trainer out who specialises in "problem" horses & is expert at handling horses from the ground to address the lunging issue. (Though find one who uses a non-violent technique like you prefer.) If you look at the Kelly Marks website there are several listed there.

I think it would be worth trying to fix it, since it may mean OP can lunge/long rein the mare before/instead of riding. Also, once the underlying issue is sorted out, and the process of sorting it out, may help in other areas as well.

 

[Marydoll]

Your horse doesnt sound happy with her living arrangements at the moment and in turn is giving you greif. If you can move her to somewhere with more turnout, look at what youre feeding her and also the amount of work shes doing, which im assuming isnt much giving how you feel about getting on, at the moment but its a start.
She sounds just like my big lad when he was first asked to lunge, would run at me, leap and rear, boxing at me, spinning and trying to kick,, or just take off ripping the line out of my hand, he did it all.
Have you ever tried lungeing her on 2 reins from the bridle through a roller ? Makes it less easy for her to turn in to you and if you can manage it, hold the lunge whip in your hand to keep her moving forward if she tries to piss around. what she does at the end of the lines for the first 5 minutes is her problem, let her leap , buck, rear, but keep your outside line and just push her forward with the whip if shes a pratt. Finish the firat time just being happy with start and stop
My boy setteled into this very quickly, i couldnt manage him on one line, but he was mine on 2, eventually he let me lunge from one line but i always preferred 2 with him. Get a good forward thinking common sense instructor out to help you initially, if you can get someone along the lines of Richard Maxwell all the better. Good luck i really hope you get it sorted out

 

[Wagtail]

I think being able to lunge a horse is very important, particularly if they have limited turnout and are very fresh to ride. I have had two that would not lunge. One would rear and box at you (which I agree, is terrifying and dangerous). The other would just charge and kick out at you. The solution for both was the same. You need to be very fit and nimble with very quick reaction and timing. You have to anticipate and break the pattern before it happens. You have to get behind them quickly and drive them on assertively with the lunge whip, often letting it flip (not painfully) behind their back legs. Exhausting, but it works, and usually pretty quickly. Another tip is always to keep them bending towards you and position yourself level or slightly behind their hindquarters.

ETA - wear a body protector, hat and gloves for this.

 

[Morgan123]

Not sure why the issue of lunging has turned into the issue here in this thread?!?! Sounds like you've already worked at this and sometimes these things just don't work out (with teaching to lunge, I mean) - you already came to that decision and not sure why everyone's still going on about it.

I do agree with the others that are saying, it's the turnout that's making her this way though and if she's that unhappy - and especially as it's making you so unhappy - if she was mine i'd be syaing that moving her is the only option - even if that means you have to have her on part livery or share her or something becuase it's so far. It must be a nightmare to be so fearful of her, and not pleasant for her either - so you have to change somtehing management wise.

 

[Spring Feather]

I don't know why there's some goading of Foxhunter Her take on the situation sounds spot-on to me but then I'm an old-school horseperson too and tend to just get on with whatever needs doing without any fuss. I'm sure Foxhunter's also dealt with horses who try to "attack" you when you lunge them ... intially. And she's probably seen the end result when after going back to square one with them, they no longer attack you and go round quietly like any other horse.

Having said all that, I think the OP should sell the horse because OP is scared of the horse and the horse cannot/will not get what it needs in it's present habitat.

 

[Marydoll]

I don't know why there's some goading of Foxhunter Her take on the situation sounds spot-on to me but then I'm an old-school horseperson too and tend to just get on with whatever needs doing without any fuss. I'm sure Foxhunter's also dealt with horses who try to "attack" you when you lunge them ... intially. And she's probably seen the end result when after going back to square one with them, they no longer attack you and go round quietly like any other horse.

Having said all that, I think the OP should sell the horse because OP is scared of the horse and the horse cannot/will not get what it needs in it's present habitat.

Agree sometimes a short sharp ping with a whip is enough to take the wind out of there sails, especially if theyre at the stage of trying to damage you

 

[honetpot]

Give you and her some space. Send her away to grass/ retirment livery till the end of march /Apirl. If she out 24/7 and you haven't had to the confront the problem for a while you both be in a better frame of mind, it could also be cheaper.
Then at Easter break try and get her in to some routine and consistant work and asses her from there.
I assume that you had her in livery at college so you could ride, but if its no fun go to plan B. I think getting a sharer where she is is only going to work if they ride really well and are consistant and you could end up with extra problems.
The lunging thing forget that for now. Some horses associate it with being beaten and having their legs run off, thats not lunging its a form of abuse masquerading as training.

 

[saffytessa]

It sounds like she wants more turnout but obviously thats not going to happen. So exercise her more or don't exercise her at all until summer so long as she is getting some turnout and is still ok to handle.

My mare also rears and comes at you boxing when on the lunge. My instructor can lunge her, I can lunge other horses but together we just don't work. We tried everything short of hitting her as that just makes her more dangerous due to her past. I have found though that she will happily loose school as though she is on a lunge line. She will circle round me not go large and use the whole school. So this could be a good idea to try with your mare.

On the idea of walking her in hand if she is like my beastie please be careful as inhand hacking and walking round the yard she is fine but take her in the school to walk her and she is as bad as when on the lunge.

If you can manage to settle her by walking or loose schooling then maybe bite the bullet and get on even if only for 5 minutes and get off before she misbehaves or you get too anxious. Build it up from there. I know it's not easy but make yourself do it in the first instance and it soon becomes easier. Also if you can get a good horsey friend to watch you (for safetys sake if nothing else) it could be the moral support you need until you can get lessons organised. HTH (sorry its so long)

 

[muff747]

I've read thro' all the posts and I can't remember anyone asking if she has been checked out by a vet. I understand she is fine in summer with plenty of turnout but this could help loosen her upand chill out, and the warmth could help if she has any pain issues.
Is it a possibility that the forage available to you is "race horse" quality and far too rich for her? Would you be able to bring in some bagged timothy haylage to try her on for a month to see if that makes a difference? (Of course you'll know to transition to it gradual if you do) Another thing to try would be brewers yeast, or aloe vera juice -there's a high possibility she may have ulcers if she is a stressy mare.
Also, I would feed a calmer or just Magnesium Oxide which is much, much cheaper and is the main ingredient in most calmers.
I knew a Selle Francais that had to have a calmer to keep him sane in the winter when stabled for long hours overnight. His supplement was stopped by a misguided stable hand and he reverted to literally climbing the stable walls. As soon as the calmer was back in his system he went back to being a pussy cat, it was that dramatic.
This advice of course is perhaps worth trying if you don't/can't get her into another yard close by with plenty of turnout, that would be the best option IMO, I can't bear to think of horses not being able to run or move at liberty and graze every day.

 

[Jessharrison]

How frustrating for you.

I think some of the responses I would tend to agree with... if the horse isnt making you happy, then it might be best to bite the bullet and find something that suits you better. You admitted that you can be a bit nervous, as we all can, and it sounds like your head strong mare maybe needs someone who is less apprehensive and is willing to keep falling off until she mellows out a bit - Im guessing that person isnt you? Which is fair enough, Ive always firmly said, no matter how much you love them, if they arent making you happy, its time to find one that does, for your own happiness and for theirs! and to spare you wasting money and heartache on something that will never come good for you.

Good luck.

Jess

 

[poglet1991]

thanks for all the responses, another livery turned her out into school yesterday morning, then she was turned out as yesterday was a turnout day, then walkered for 40mins then schooled lmao that really seemed to work, only had a few bronks and they were more about going forward than refusing to work, which i dont really mind aslong as we are both on the same page. ive also put a lavender soaked rag up in her stable as its supposed to help. regarding feed shes not on anything, hasnt been since shes been on alternate day turnout. i would love to swap yards but everything is too far away so its not a possibility. my family arent horsey so i cant send her home for a break. i dont wish to sell her, i only have 10 weeks left at uni then shes home for the summer, and she may possibly be moving to my instructors next year

If the only way the OP can keep this horse, is by a method which the horse cannot tolerate, ie insufficient turnout FOR THIS HORSE then in my opinion she should sell it. The horse is obviously very unhappy and the OP appears to be insufficiently concerned about the horses well being to find a way of meeting the animals needs.

im that insufficiently concerned about my horses welfare that i posted a thread asking for help. silly me, i simply must remember to ignore the situation in the future

 

[Fantasy_World]

What bait?

Foxhunter couldn't know what the horse does/doesn't like or has been through in the past just as every other poster wouldn't know.

A slap on the chest with the whip would work for alot of horses and is valid advice based on the information given. Just because it's different to others advice and in this case maybe not suitable for the OP, doesn't make it wrong. The advice was given in a calm, matter of fact manner so I really don't see what bait there is to rise to.

I was told alot of things about my horse that could/couldn't be done should/shouldn't be done and by very experienced people. Most of it has turned out to be not true.

OP I hope you find a solution.

Agree with this .....

 

[Lynswin]

It does sound if turnout is the problem, and I know this sounds harsh, but if you can't offer that then you really need to think about either loaning her or selling her so that she gets this.
It really pains me to see horses 'shut up'. It's not their natural environment and it's not really surprising that it leads to problems. I am sure we have all seen the videos of zoo animals going 'mad' because they are not allowed to do what's natural to them!

The other problem is, if she's scaring you, that is only going to inflame the situation as she will pick up on your fear and feel insecure herself.

One final point, why do people only check backs and teeth? As suggested by another poster, there could be any number of sites that could be causing pain! However, in this instance, it does sound more psychological than physical, but the lunging situation may be physical so I would definitely get her checked out by someone who will look at the 'whole' horse.

 

[poglet1991]

It does sound if turnout is the problem, and I know this sounds harsh, but if you can't offer that then you really need to think about either loaning her or selling her so that she gets this.
It really pains me to see horses 'shut up'. It's not their natural environment and it's not really surprising that it leads to problems. I am sure we have all seen the videos of zoo animals going 'mad' because they are not allowed to do what's natural to them!

The other problem is, if she's scaring you, that is only going to inflame the situation as she will pick up on your fear and feel insecure herself.

One final point, why do people only check backs and teeth? As suggested by another poster, there could be any number of sites that could be causing pain! However, in this instance, it does sound more psychological than physical, but the lunging situation may be physical so I would definitely get her checked out by someone who will look at the 'whole' horse.

i know what your saying and i do think its good advice. but i really dont want to loan or sell her, i think i may have cracked it with this walker, turning out in school and hacking though. hopefully we will move to the school horses fields soon, then she should get more turnout, she can live out when she gets home too. i dont think its health related she went to vets before xmas with a respiratory infection, they didnt know what it was so they checked for pretty much everything, before being diagnosed and given antibiotics. then shes had teeth and back checked as normal. thankyou for your advice though im hoping shes on the right path now. fingers crossed

 

[jeeve]

I had the same problem. Lunge first and make sure she canters and jumps on the lunge! Lots of people don't agree with it, keep your circles big and she's burn off all that energy- just hold on tight!

Sometimes you do need to force yourself on a few times, just make sure you keep the horse going forwards and that way it's more difficult for ponio to mess around!

(p.s. Abort the foetal position!- it makes them go faster, and you have less control!!!)

agree with this, you should not always need to do this, or be able to reduce the time, but it is better than getting bucked off.

Also when you hop on, stick to low gaits and get busy, lots of transitions, changes of directions, and they soon start listening.

 

[MizzPurpleKitten]

I haven't read all the responses so apologies if this has already been suggested but I too have a 'Let's rear and box at mum so she doesn;t lunge me' horse.....I've tried everything, and the only thing that I've found that does work is using a pessoa. Might be worth a shot for the lunge issue (although I get what you're saying about not lungeing as it's easier).

I do tend to agree though that it sounds as if turnout (or lack thereof) is the issue and thus, you need to sort something where she can get out more, even if it is just a bit in the school and more exercise or something.

Good Luck and I hope you find the right solution for all parties involved

 

[poglet1991]

I haven't read all the responses so apologies if this has already been suggested but I too have a 'Let's rear and box at mum so she doesn;t lunge me' horse.....I've tried everything, and the only thing that I've found that does work is using a pessoa. Might be worth a shot for the lunge issue (although I get what you're saying about not lungeing as it's easier).

I do tend to agree though that it sounds as if turnout (or lack thereof) is the issue and thus, you need to sort something where she can get out more, even if it is just a bit in the school and more exercise or something.

Good Luck and I hope you find the right solution for all parties involved

i have actually not tried a pessoa, though i do really like them. i might have a play. she doesnt run in though, just wont go out, and because shes so close its dangerous. ill give this a go, if it doesnt work then ive nothing to lose lol ive already accepted she wont do it so its a plus if she suddenly decides thats the thing for her lol

 

[Lynswin]

i know what your saying and i do think its good advice. but i really dont want to loan or sell her, i think i may have cracked it with this walker, turning out in school and hacking though. hopefully we will move to the school horses fields soon, then she should get more turnout, she can live out when she gets home too. i dont think its health related she went to vets before xmas with a respiratory infection, they didnt know what it was so they checked for pretty much everything, before being diagnosed and given antibiotics. then shes had teeth and back checked as normal. thankyou for your advice though im hoping shes on the right path now. fingers crossed

I'm sure lots of us have found ourselves in a similar position and it can be heartbreaking but at the end of the day, you must do what is right for you and her and if that means keeping her and trying to work things out then I really do wish you all the best. Keep us posted with how things are going

 

[MizzPurpleKitten]

Mine was exactly the same, he wouldn't go out he'd just lunge at me boxing with his front legs whilst rearing like a circus horse.....for some reason he's a different horse in a pessoa (I actually tried it for the same reason, I'd accepted he wouldn't lunge and just thought, hey, got nothing to lose, and it worked!). If it doesn't work then you've not lost anything but definitely worth a try in my experience