I don't know what to do!

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verient

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This will probably be quite long so sorry in advance. I just need to vent really and get peoples advice.

I'm 15 and I've owned my pony Tonto for around 2 years. When he came to us he had a lot of problems. He was AWFUL. He consistantly misbehaved. He was never ever good and he scared the crap out of me. I kept working with him with help from an instructor and this summer he's been amazing. In our first 1'6 sj class we were eliminated. We recently won our first 3'6 class. He's come unbelievably far and I'm proud of him.

However, he's always been a brat on the ground. I wrote to his old owner and she mentioned this also. She said he was too much for her and her kids so she had to sell him. He tanks off in hand, kicks, barges and has no respect what so ever. But the thing is, he's not always like this...it's more of a daily/weekly thing depending on his mood. One day he'll be the dopiest thing ever you can lead from the longest rope and the next day he'll gallop off and try to kick you. This summer I've started to lunge him. Previously he kicked and galloped off. It scared me. But then we had a breakthrough and I could lunge him with no problems. We also joined up and it was great. But then he just flipped again and kicked out at me and galloped off. I just can't hold him. When I pick his feet out he kicks out at me. I know it doesn't help at all, but I'm now really nervous of picking his feet out. Sometimes when I walk past him he randomly kicks out. I always have trouble catching him, he just threatens to kick. He's a nightmare to load. Just stands on the ramp for hours or goes backwards.

Riding wise he's so much better. He'll sometimes have the odd tantrum, but it's just him. Most of the time I trust him but he's a very challenging ride.

I'm just honestly not sure what to do with him...I don't want to have to sell him because he's an awsome little pony...but he makes me so upset and depressed because he seems to hate me and I'm becoming totally nervous around him. I'd do groundwork but he just piss takes and I honestly don't think I can cope with him on the ground. I can't really afford groundwork lessons either because we don't have the money. I'm totally stuck...
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Don't beat yourself up over this, you have done amazingly well under saddle and I think you now have to separate this from the groundwork and say ok i've cracked him under saddle and now I'm going to concentrate on some in hand work.

You don't say how old he is but it sounds like a combination on lack of education and lack of respect. You said he was too much for his previous family and they probably let him get away with too much so you will have to go back to basics.

I understand you don't have enough money for groundwork lessons but an alternative would be a one day clinic with for example a natural horsemanship person to start you off and then I would recommend the Kelly Marks / Richard Maxwell type books to continue the work ( put them on your Christmas list if needs be ). They will guide you along and keep you motivated.

I am sure he will come good with time and patience.

Good luck
 
have you tried leading him in a chifney? I had one like this before and although I will ne slated for this I led him in a chifney and help a schooling whip. Everytime the horse tried to bolt or rear he would get a tug on the chifney then when the legs came out he'd get a smack, preferably on that leg. Same on the yard - within a few weeks he learnt that he would get a smack and stopped doing it. Sorry but a horse needs to learn discipline - I am not saying beat him just tap him but it has to be meant otherwise it could be one day that you get kicked in the head and seriously hurt.
 
My instructor thinks I've done well but she thinks he's a very nasty pony, not just naughty.

Didn't get him vetted before but he's had his back and teeth checked recently.
 
I'm no pro but is he was mine i'd
Set boundaries with him, make him know he has to stay out of your space, It sounds like he thinks he's top notch, and he needs to know he's not, you are.
With his feet, let him know that when he kicks out thats the wrong thing to do and make it comfortable for him to have his feet picked up, just pick then up, stroke them rub them and put them down again with lots of praise. When he kicks raise your voice slightly and tell him he's doing the wrong thing, Make it harder work for him to kick out than to stick it out with his foot up.
 
And with the bolting when your leading him thing have you tried either a rope halter (they are thiner so the pressure is more located, The horse finds it harder to lean on the halter) or a dually(if you couldnt afford one do the whole leadrope round the nose trick?)
x
 
Personally ( and I know some will disagree ) I don't think horses are naturally nasty, I think they are a product of what we do to them and how we treat them, I have no doubt he sounds a challenge but with some clear boundaries and consistent handling you should be able to improve his behaviour.

You must never put yourself in danger at anytime but try and spend some quality time grooming him for example when there is no pressure on either of you and this may help build his trust in you. He needs to want to be with you before you can ask anything of him.

One note of caution and please don't think I am belittling your trainer but they are all different and some are not as patient at getting to the root cause of a problem, being to quick to write off an animal, often because they don't know how to help him or what to do to get him through these issues.

Find someone sympathetic to help, even hints and tips from here and other sources are available without cost.
 
Ok I hope I can help you with a few of the issues.

Buy yourself a Richard Maxwell training halter and 12ft rope... http://www.richard-maxwell.com/merchandise.html

Yes they are expensive, I thought the same when I bought one but it has totally paid for itself over and over. They are versitile and should help you with the loading, leading issues and your relationship with him. You get a training DVD with the halter so you know how to use it, and you get to see some of the problems you might have and how to deal with them.

I know all too well the problem of having a horse that won't load. It is the most frustrating thing!! My mare was a rearer when it came to loading, she would throw herself on the floor, have a totally tantrum, and it was bloody scary. Once I got my halter I went and did 40 mins groundwork with her in the school (you could do it in the field). Then just because I was interested to see the result, I opened up the trailer, and she walked right in,no fuss, no rearing, just calmly ambled in. I nearly fainted!!! I then practised every time she came in for about 4 weeks, then a few times a week for another few months before going anywhere. She now loads each time without the halter, but I always take it with me, just in case.

And to prove it wasn't a fluke, a horse at the yard was moving and wouldn't go in the box, I did 20 mins with it in the school and in it went.

Re: Catching. Also a problem I know all too well, aggressiveness in the field is a horrible problem to have, and it does make you very nervous. Take a lunge whip in with you, and if he so much as moves one foot away from you as you walk towards him, make him trot on and if he ever charges at you, wave the whip at him. Chase him round, just keep telling yourself he'll give in before you. When he eventually stops, go and get him, if he's trying to kick you, then send him away again.
*this is easier if you are not in a lively herd though, otherwise it may turn into a great game of chase for the whole herd!*
My mare was a total b*tch to catch, but as soon as I took a lunge whip in she just stood there, if she ever tried it on, I use the above method and chase her until she gives in which is usually within 90 seconds! I don't take the lunge whip in with me anymore, the on the few occasions she has tried it on, I chase her with the rope, and if she really has it on her, just go get the whip. Only thing I've found that works (oh and she gets a treat each time she's caught.

With him kicking, (I'll get shouted at for this) bloody kick him back. He is taking the piss and needs to know your in charge. If you manage one foot pick up without him kicking or stomping, give him so much praise he won't know what's hit him!! What's he like with the farrier.

I really hope this helps you, the halters are worth their weight in gold and I would thoroughly recommend them.
 
I think this sounds like it's about dominance on the ground as far as this behaviour and you need to assert your authority over him. Whee picking out his feet get as close to his body as you can and he cannot kick you/injure you this way. A stern voice if he kicks out and using your body language to make YOU seem the bigger stronger one. Make him move out of YOUR way. get a decent headcollar (maybe one with a chain) so he cannot barge/pull you.

My horse does this and, if he does get away he will buck out and my mum has been caught by his hooves once. He doesn't mean to kick though, it isn't his nature he's just sometimes a bit of a get!

I am sure there will be plenty of experienced people who could help you as it really does seem like a dominance think not a nasty pony and please don't think your horse 'hates' you. He is a horse, they do not think like this. You need him though to respect you. There was a horse at college who was like this but fab when ridden. she actually did attack some students in the stable though but i think she was clever and she knew she could be like this with students who weren't confident around her - she never went for the yard manager!

keep persevering - I don't believe that there are any truly 'nasty' horses out there.
 
I too had a terribly stubborn horse (cleveland bay - say no more)! I tried the natural megubbins and to no avail, she was a stubborn strong headed old thing, but as soon as the saddle went on, she was perfect!

Em's party trick was rearing, kicking when doing hooves, not loading and backing away when tied up. I also began loosing confidence when handling her and when she knew she was winning, her behavior got worse, it was exactly as you, a total lack of respect.

The handiest thing was threading the lead rope through the head collar and over her nose, its a quick fix to win the battle of getting out of the field, not walking on etc.

Regarding hooves I had someone distract her with a Horselix mini lick or some grated carrot (takes them longer to eat), then would lean onto the shoulder of the leg I wanted to pick up, pick it up, then just hold it for a few seconds with both hands, if she fought for it back, as I wasn't trying to pick it out I had the strength to keep hold. Once she knew I wasn't going to let her win, she would give in. I picked her hooves out up to 6 times a day, just to make sure I kept it constant, and gained her trust. She still fought against me on the odd occasion, but I was always prepared for it.

I too couldn't afford any professional help, and it was only with the support of friends and family and my brilliant farrier that I made progress. Sadly I lost Em before I won all of my battles, so if had my time with her again I would continue working on bringing her in and out repetitively a few times a day until she got so bored, that she just gave in. Carry a whip, then you have the extra little confidence not to let your horse overpower you (I used to carry a riding whip in my wellies, just in case!) I was recommended the halters, and would certainly give them a try.

Finally your horse doesn't hate you, its just the quirks in his personality that makes him who he is. If you find something that works for you and your horse, stick to it, no matter if others don't always agree with the approach.

The other thing to check is his diet, is he on rich grass, sugary high energy feed? It may be that you need to strip back to totally natural stuffs, it made a big difference to mine.

Good luck
 
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