I emailed Science Supplements…

[Reacher]

I’ve been using Science Supplements Flexability Professional for over a year feeding at the maintenance dose and was re-reading the label and was confused by what amount of ingredients the maintenance dose contained.

So I emailed the advice line for a clarification 10 days ago , and have received no reply (even after a follow up email).

To summarise, I think that the amount of ingredients shown in the comparison chart below (which seems to have disappeared from their website) for Flexability professional are double what they would be if they had used maintenance dose rates - which is what the title of the chart claims.

In other words, you are better off with Feedmark (at maintenance dose rates)!

Ironic given that they market themselves as “transparent “!

 

[poiuytrewq]

These things really worry me.
Joint supplements are so expensive yet I feel a lot of the time it’s money down the drain when we are trying to do the best thing for our horses.
Someone on here did a lot of research a few years back and put together a really good totally unbiased comparison table.
Sadly I can never remember who to find it again… anyone know?
What are optimum levels? How do we go about evaluating a supplement?

 

[Jambarissa]

I do wonder how much money we are wasting

At least if you have a horse showing physical issues you can feed for a while and see if there's a difference.

 

[HelenBack]

The Flexability Professional doesn't have loading and maintenance rates but the Flexibility Plus does. The values on the chart above do look accurate to me for both the Professional and the Plus fed at the maintenance rate.

I do also wonder if we do need to actually be giving such massive amounts of everything though or if we're just buying into a marketing hype that more is better. I've fed the Professional for a while now because I like the range of ingredients in it. Recently though I dropped the amount I feed by a third to try and save a bit of money and I honestly haven't noticed any difference.

I've just bought the Equine Answers one to try as I want to see if there's any difference giving devil's claw instead of boswellia. It's a hell of a lot cheaper so I'll be interested to see how that works out.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Dr David Marlin created that chart so doesn’t surprise me Science Supplements is highest because he owned/or (rumours) created the company then sold it.

I’ve been reading over and over into joint supplements, is it worth it? My vet thinks I’m better off spending my money 6 month/yearly on Athramid. I would try Feedmark, works out £48 a month with a discount code.

 

[Jambarissa]

Athramid appears to be a game changer and at least we know it works.

With a supplement you're guessing what you need and then hoping the horse digests and uses it.

I tried lots of joint supplements and the cheapest equimins one was what worked.

 

[ycbm]

These things really worry me.
Joint supplements are so expensive yet I feel a lot of the time it’s money down the drain when we are trying to do the best thing for our horses.
Someone on here did a lot of research a few years back and put together a really good totally unbiased comparison table.
Sadly I can never remember who to find it again… anyone know?
What are optimum levels? How do we go about evaluating a supplement?

I don't try and evaluate supplements. I look up what's in them and review the ingredients for testing for their efficacy. As a result, the only joint supplement I use in a horse showing no symptoms is 20g of MSM powder, because it has been shown to reduce the damage from the everyday wear and tear that horses get doing their normal work. It's cheap, proven to be effective, and some horses like the taste of it so much they'll lick it off your hands. I buy it 5 kilos at a time from sports supplement sellers, though if you have enough horses on it you can buy a 25kg case.

I looked up green lipped muscle once and found that works, but only in doses far in excess of anything in any supplement, and that's pretty typical of horse supplements.
.

 

[criso]

Someone on here did a lot of research a few years back and put together a really good totally unbiased comparison table.
Sadly I can never remember who to find it again… anyone know?
What are optimum levels? How do we go about evaluating a supplement?

I remember that, the name April rings a bell.

A lot of joint supplements market price wise on maintenance levels and effectiveness on loading. You need to adjust when comparing.

Then there is no concrete evidence or agreement on which active ingredients are most effective

The problem is horses weigh so much, if you have a supplement for a dog or cat, them you can feed optimal rates and it seems a reasonable monthly cost. A horse could weigh 100 times more than a cat and that's a lot more to pay.

 

[JBM]

I use Betta life as when I was researching they’re the only brand that seemed to have everything you needed for joints in a good amount at the maintenance level

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I looked up green lipped muscle once and found that works, but only in doses far in excess of anything in any supplement, and that's pretty typical of horse supplements.

A friend buys green lipped muscle from Germany and feeds that to her gelding at 15g a day.

 

[Reacher]

The Flexability Professional doesn't have loading and maintenance rates but the Flexibility Plus does. The values on the chart above do look accurate to me for both the Professional and the Plus fed at the maintenance rate.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that when I click on this link for “professional “ it takes you to this page which gives the dose rate for professional then further down it gives you the flexability plus data . It looks like I’ve been feeding half the recommended dose

FlexAbility Professional | Horse Joint Supplement

The UK's highest specification joint supplement. Scientifically proven active ingredients. For all horses. Free UK delivery available. 5* TrustPilot rating.

sciencesupplements.co.uk

So why SS could not reply to my emails requesting clarification ?

 

[Reacher]

I remember that, the name April rings a bell.

A lot of joint supplements market price wise on maintenance levels and effectiveness on loading. You need to adjust when comparing.

Then there is no concrete evidence or agreement on which active ingredients are most effective

The problem is horses weigh so much, if you have a supplement for a dog or cat, them you can feed optimal rates and it seems a reasonable monthly cost. A horse could weigh 100 times more than a cat and that's a lot more to pay.

Yes I seem to recall David Marlin ‘s article saying there is no concrete evidence - yet he sells the product!

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I use Betta life as when I was researching they’re the only brand that seemed to have everything you needed for joints in a good amount at the maintenance level

You’d have to feed the loading dose (30g day) to achieve the recommended levels of glucosamine, MSM and Chondroitin. Working out £72 a month.

Seems Feedmark still provides the highest levels at the best cost, providing you buy it when an offer is on.

 

[JBM]

You’d have to feed the loading dose (30g day) to achieve the recommended levels of glucosamine, MSM and Chondroitin. Working out £72 a month.

Seems Feedmark still provides the highest levels at the best cost, providing you buy it when an offer is on.

What is the recommended levels you’re using

 

[Hormonal Filly]

What is the recommended levels you’re using

I believe I read it was 10g glucosamine, 10g MSM and 5g Chondroitin.

Just had look online: 20mg/kg Glucosamine, 2g per 100kg of MSM and 2.5/3g of Chondrotin per 225kg twice per day according to Forage plus so more 10g per day for a 500g horse.

Feedmark has much higher levels of vitamin C and hydraulic acid, more value for money compared to Betta life.

 

[HelenBack]

I think the confusion comes from the fact that when I click on this link for “professional “ it takes you to this page which gives the dose rate for professional then further down it gives you the flexability plus data . It looks like I’ve been feeding half the recommended dose

FlexAbility Professional | Horse Joint Supplement

The UK's highest specification joint supplement. Scientifically proven active ingredients. For all horses. Free UK delivery available. 5* TrustPilot rating.

sciencesupplements.co.uk

So why SS could not reply to my emails requesting clarification ?

Yes I agree that the web page is confusing. I've also had problems getting hold of the professional in the past, which is quite annoying too. I have emailed SS a few times in the past and they've usually replied within a reasonable time so it's frustrating that they've not got back to you. Have you chased them at all?

I do think the Feedmark one looks like a good product, although I haven't done a price comparison. I'd probably be quite tempted to switch to it but whenever I've tried it my horse has refused to eat it so that rules it out unfortunately.

 

[JBM]

I was reading and I found they needed 6,000 to 10,000 milligrams (mg) glucosamine and 1,250 to 5,000 mg chondroitin for it to be really doing anything
Which it was within
I found that many were in the levels for one but not the other

Horse Joint Supplements Guide

Confused by all the formulas out there? Here are the most common ingredients in joint nutraceuticals, what they do and the recommended levels

equusmagazine.com

 

[Reacher]

Yes I agree that the web page is confusing. I've also had problems getting hold of the professional in the past, which is quite annoying too. I have emailed SS a few times in the past and they've usually replied within a reasonable time so it's frustrating that they've not got back to you. Have you chased them at all?

I do think the Feedmark one looks like a good product, although I haven't done a price comparison. I'd probably be quite tempted to switch to it but whenever I've tried it my horse has refused to eat it so that rules it out unfortunately.

Yes I did chase, still waiting…

I’ve not done a price comparison but Feedmark quite often have offers - currently have 40% off. Pity your horse doesn’t like it.

I don’t think the Feedmark provides much of the DHA or EPA version of omega 3s (in linseed) which is the form they can use

 

[ycbm]

Recommended level in the science I saw was 20g a day for a young 500kg horse.
.

 

[HelenBack]

Yes I did chase, still waiting…

I’ve not done a price comparison but Feedmark quite often have offers - currently have 40% off. Pity your horse doesn’t like it.

I don’t think the Feedmark provides much of the DHA or EPA version of omega 3s (in linseed) which is the form they can use

My horse is a fussy so and so and goes out of his way to be difficult where feed and supplements are concerned. I've got a funny feeling actually he's not going to like this new one I've got to try him on now I've looked at the contents of the pot.

I've known quite a few other horses who've had the Feedmark one and none of those have turned their noses up at it if you were thinking of trying it.

I find feed and supplements generally quite challenging as often they seem to have loads of good ingredients in but then are lacking in one key thing you're looking for, or have it but at really low levels. It's really frustrating at times.

 

[Reacher]

My horse is a fussy so and so and goes out of his way to be difficult where feed and supplements are concerned. I've got a funny feeling actually he's not going to like this new one I've got to try him on now I've looked at the contents of the pot.

I've known quite a few other horses who've had the Feedmark one and none of those have turned their noses up at it if you were thinking of trying it.

I find feed and supplements generally quite challenging as often they seem to have loads of good ingredients in but then are lacking in one key thing you're looking for, or have it but at really low levels. It's really frustrating at times.

Funnily I already have my retired mare on the Feedmark one - (I think I bought in bulk at half price)

it’s my ridden horse (who is a senior - he shows no stiffness but I want to keep it that way) who I have on the SS thinking I was giving him the best stuff - when actually I’m feeding him half doses . When I run out I will reevaluate!

 

[Reacher]

Recommended level in the science I saw was 20g a day for a young 500kg horse.
.

For which ingredient? Omegas or MSM?

 

[Reacher]

Interesting the difference in appearance between the SS and the feedmark

 

[Hallo2012]

I don't try and evaluate supplements. I look up what's in them and review the ingredients for testing for their efficacy. As a result, the only joint supplement I use in a horse showing no symptoms is 20g of MSM powder, because it has been shown to reduce the damage from the everyday wear and tear that horses get doing their normal work. It's cheap, proven to be effective, and some horses like the taste of it so much they'll lick it off your hands. I buy it 5 kilos at a time from sports supplement sellers, though if you have enough horses on it you can buy a 25kg case.

I looked up green lipped muscle once and found that works, but only in doses far in excess of anything in any supplement, and that's pretty typical of horse supplements.
.

any thoughts on lubrisyn?

its a liquid HA product, cult following in the US but its ruddy £££££££££££££ for two

 

[Widgeon]

I don't try and evaluate supplements. I look up what's in them and review the ingredients for testing for their efficacy.

I do exactly the same, it seems to be the only way to make any kind of proper informed decision.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Interesting the difference in appearance between the SS and the feedmark

View attachment 121806View attachment 121807

Which is which? Bottom looks like my micronised linseed!

 

[ycbm]

For which ingredient? Omegas or MSM?

Sorry, MSM. The tests came out best on 20g, way higher than normal recommended/ contained in other products.
.

 

[Reacher]

Which is which? Bottom looks like my micronised linseed!

The bottom is the Feedmark -(which does contain micronised linseed as the first listed ingredient ) - I’m curious as to why the 2 look so different

 

[Reacher]

I don't try and evaluate supplements. I look up what's in them and review the ingredients for testing for their efficacy. As a result, the only joint supplement I use in a horse showing no symptoms is 20g of MSM powder, because it has been shown to reduce the damage from the everyday wear and tear that horses get doing their normal work. It's cheap, proven to be effective, and some horses like the taste of it so much they'll lick it off your hands. I buy it 5 kilos at a time from sports supplement sellers, though if you have enough horses on it you can buy a 25kg case.

I looked up green lipped muscle once and found that works, but only in doses far in excess of anything in any supplement, and that's pretty typical of horse supplements.
.

I do exactly the same, it seems to be the only way to make any kind of proper informed decision.

I was just thinking, would it be worth starting a thread in veterinary, with links to scientific papers so people can find them in one place? The subject of joint supplements comes up a lot so I think it would be really useful. Would you be able to post links to the research you have found (pretty please!)

 

[ycbm]

I was just thinking, would it be worth starting a thread in veterinary, with links to scientific papers so people can find them in one place? The subject of joint supplements comes up a lot so I think it would be really useful. Would you be able to post links to the research you have found (pretty please!)

Oh blimey I don't keep links, that would be "organised"

But if someone starts the thread I'll add to it over time. The Aloe and MSM research should be easy enough for me to find. There's esomeprazole too, which is effective at much lower dose than omeprazole but not licenced so vets can't prescribe it. There's some in Swedish about mucana as a Prascend substitute. Green lipped muscle is definitely there somewhere. Some about agnus castus for laminitis especially in mares. Some of the herbs in Sarcex have evidence for immune support.


It's a great idea if it can be pinned to the start of the thread.
.