I feel like giving up on him - please help me (VERY LONG)

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SarahK

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Some of you may have seen my odd few posts about my current loan horse (pictures in PG somewhere). Bit of background…

He competed lots at dressage and show jumping with his owner when he was about 5 and she did really well with him. She then had children and loaned him out to a couple of homes before he came to us. He’s 8 years old now.

When we went to see him for the first time he looked happy enough (a bit thin and lacking muscle though) and was fine for both me and my sister to ride. Really we were a bit silly and should have gone back and ridden him again maybe hacked him out before we took him, but hindsight is a wonderful thing!

We got him home a couple of weeks later and realised some of his problems (none of which the owner or YO advised us of). He’s spooky out hacking alone and in company – often worse in company! He’s scared stiff of buckets (no idea why), Terrified of lorries, tractors, trailers to the extent that he bolts when he sees something similar. He cannot be left alone without any other horses in the barn or he will totally freak out! When he’s in a bad mood he bucks and broncs if you try and get him to work properly. He’s too excitable at shows, you cant do anything with him.

If we knew all of the above we would not have taken him on but now we’ve got him, we’re really attached to him – he’s very lovable despite his faults. If in a good mood he will hack, jump, do dressage beautifully with no problems at all – but if he’s in a bad mood you just cant do anything with him. I have been riding and loaning horses for 10 years so am not exactly a novice but I do suffer with confidence issues sometimes – so as you can imagine he’s not exactly helping me!

I have been contemplating giving him back for a few weeks as I do not wish to lose my confidence completely but my sister who shares him with me is adamant she wants him to stay. Even though he scares her too!

But last night if I could have given him back there and then I would have! I left work early to have a nice ride in the sunshine and turn him out for the night. Whist I was riding another girl from the yard was practicing SJing for a competition on Sunday and everytime she went over a jump he would rear, buck and try and tank off with me – he enjoys his jumping and was wanting to jump too – but I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to behave like that! He went round with his nose in the air (refused blankly to go on the bit) spooked at everything in sight and kept trying to buck and tank off. I was really tired but managed to get a few minutes of decent work out of him before taking him back in. Very pissed off already by this point!

I then went to turn him out and someone with a trailer had just arrived back at the yard and the horse in the trailer was making a lot of noise. So he used that at an excuse to rear at me, kicking out and getting my with one of his front hooves tried to tank off down towards the field. Lucky I had put his chifney on! And he bucked, reared and danced the whole 5 minute walk to the field. I honestly don’t know how I managed to hold on to him and was extremely lucky he only kicked me once. So by the time I let him go in the field I was glad to see the back of him.

All of these problems stem form him being excitable and not because he’s nasty but my confidence in myself and my confidence in him has almost disappeared now!
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I was really ready to give him up last night. Generally to handle he’s good (compared to when we got him 8 months ago when he would bite and barge all the time) but I have more bad riding experiences on him than good ones. Surely riding is supposed to be fun right?

My sister seems to think my bad experiences with him are all my fault because my confidence is so low – could this be true? But then I’m never going to build confidence when he behaves that way am I?!

I love him soo much and am so attached to him, he’s on DIY livery so I see him all the time. I don’t really want to give up on him because once I’m confident I feel that I may be able to do some really good things on him - but then maybe he will never change. What if I gave him up and end up with something worse?

If you’re still awake after reading all that I’m very impressed. Any comments, advice would be really appreciated as I have no idea what to do, I’m so confused
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Hi there, he doesn't sound easy! I know a lot of people are against the natural horsemanship approach, but i tumbeld upon it by accident when my horse was recovering from injury and could only do in hand work and the difference in him was immidiate. Doesn't need to be parelli! Richard Maxwell has written 2 excellent books that really explain a lot about the horsey thought process - or lack thereof! - and they are not expensive. Maybe trying something like that would take all the pressure off both of you, and give you a chance to unwind mentally and emotionaly and try something new?
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I've read millions on the topic now and could maybe give you some tips to try but wont post any now incase you're not interested!
Good Luck!
 
Gosh SarahK I don't have any answers for you only empathy. I bought my horse and he turned out to be very spooky although not in company. He has a hissy fit when other horses are moving around him but I'm gradually learning to relax, let him have his paddy and then quietly ride on. I don't think he'll ever change but I'm learning to cope with it and gradually gaining confidence (taken 18 months after I had a stupid fall from him and split my knee open). He too is an absolute darling to be around, soft and daft as anything until you get on his back. I find that when other people who are more confident ride him he is no problem so I know my nerves are making him worse and all that means I'm not willing to give in, although I do have my moments of weakness. I agree its meant to be fun. Only you can really decide if its just too much but maybe try to get some professional help first if you're really attached
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Send him back
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I totally understand where you are coming from on this... Last year I loaned a horse - his owners said he was a complete novice ride - a child could ride him in the school. Can get strong when cantering - but perfectly controllable now in a roller bit.

Got him home - he was v. thin and also quite lethargic as a result - so we fed him up - and then he turned into a monster that I couldn't ride.. I lost loads of confidence and began to dread riding him.

Owner tried to sell him to me in August last year - I said no - horse was sold - bought youngster who I love and I have my confidence back
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Riding is meant to be fun - definately send him back. your sis will love the new one and will get over it
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Sorry to hear you are having such a horrible time. Have you ruled out any physical causes, back teeth etc? What are you feeding him? Have you tried mag ox?
Can he be turned out for longer? How much work does he get?
What breed is he?
Are you having some instruction with him?

Green horses like him get their confidence from you and if you are starting to lose yours he will be picking up on it.

Sorry I am rushing cos at work, but something to think about .
 
he sounds like a nightmare tbh. Does he behave like this with your sister? If so then I suspect she is only 'blaming you' for his bad behaviour because she knows you are thinking of ending the loan.

To be honest, I think one of the beauties of loans is that you can give the horse back if it is not the right one for you... imagine if you had bought him and were stuck trying to sell him on with all these problems?

If he is knocking your confidence (and it sounds as if his behaviour would knock most people's confidence) I would give him back. He obviously needs a pretty experienced rider who is used to dealing with 'lively' or 'tricky' horses - at the moment neither of you is going to be very happy.

Just my thoughts, I am sorry that you loan is not working out but there are lovely horses out there I promise!
 
Personally I would send him back, from what i have read I understand you only have him on loan? If you are this attached to him think how much you could love a horse that actually suits what you want to do??

My horse is very spooky out hacking (at silly things) but is 100% in heavy traffic, I put up with his silliness because at a competition he is completly different and is doing Novice level BE. I feel i can excuse his spooking for this reason, If I only had him for hacking and schooling i would be fed up with him. Your horse sounds alot more frustrating!

Maybe persuade your sister to go and look at a few horses? riding one thats well behaved may be enough to change her mind
 
Agree with trying some Natural Horsemanship stuff, not Parelli, but yes Richard Mawxwell, Michael Peace... mainly common sense stuff but gives you a few excercises and a bit of direction with handling him on the ground more confidently.
Also what are you feeding him? Some of the so called 'cool mixes' seem to actually heat them up if they're excitable, tr one without Barley (I find Allen & Page Ride & Relax good) or if he's out with plenty of grass cut his feed out altogether.
A good calming suppliment could help also, Equine America So Kalm and Blue Chip calmer seem well supported on here.
Failing that, send him back and don't beat yourself up about it, it's meant to be fun!!
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I have to say, I think I would send him back. I had a mare on loan a few years back, I did know however what she was like before I did so! She napped, and had the art of running backwards completley sorted!
I thought we were doing ok until one day for no apparant reason she shot out sideways into the path of a car. We were VERy lucky not to be hurt.
And you knw this changed my opinion completley, I though why am I putting myself through this, there are so many horses in the world who are available for loan who don't have these issues & whom I would enjoy riding. I appreciate if I owned her it would be a different story but ultimatley the whole point of loaning is that if it doesnt work out you can give the horse back.
it sounds to be like this would be the best option for you & the horse & the owner needs to seriously consider what is sensible for the horse.
have you talked to the owner about the horses behaviour?
 
Either send him back, or if your sister won't, let her have him and get yourself a nice loan horse
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Have you had an instructor come and help you? If you really want to hang on to him, I'd send him away to a pro for some education. Make sure you stay involved though. I hope things work out for you one way or another
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First of all *hugs*
I feel for you
My horse was like yours when I first got him but because I had bought him so I couldn't send him back and I couldn't sell him on just in case he actually hurt someone else.
Luckily hes come right now but its taken 18 months.
Please consider sending him back, its really not worth you losing you're confidence over. I know its hard when you're attached but i think it will probably be worth it in the end.
PM if you like because i know what you're going through.
Hannah x
 
Send him back before you get hurt and/or lose your confidence completely.

It sounds as though he needs someone really confident to get him over his issues- if you are losing your nerve with him you are just going to end up exasperating his problems. Horses are too expensive in terms of time and money to have the wrong one- easier said than done and it is terribly hard when you are attached but I really think you should find something a bit more straightforward that you can get out and have fun on- there are lots out there!
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Good luck whatever you decide- I have been in the same situation with a horse I bought so you have my sympathy!
 
Hi

Is there an instructor or experienced friend who can help you with him and be with you when you handle/ride him? or someone who can school him and give him some lunging/groundwork lessons so he learns to give people some more respect regardless of what is going on around him? obviously if funds allow.

On the other hand you have to think of your safety first and you need to decide if he is the right horse for you, however much you love him and how heartbreaking it will be to take him back to his owners.
 
It all sounds a bit dangerous to me "luckily he only kicked me once"
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and as much as he is lovely on the ground is it worth the risk?

If you really want to persevere with him why don't you take a short break and let your sister carry on for a few weeks, then get back on, see how you feel and reassess the situation.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to hear you are having such a horrible time. Have you ruled out any physical causes, back teeth etc? What are you feeding him? Have you tried mag ox?
Can he be turned out for longer? How much work does he get?
What breed is he?
Are you having some instruction with him?

Green horses like him get their confidence from you and if you are starting to lose yours he will be picking up on it.

Sorry I am rushing cos at work, but something to think about .

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Yep have had him checked and nothing wrong at all, he is turned out all night and all morning and only spends afternoons in to prevent him getting too fat. He eats a handful of meadow mix, alfa lite and carrots once a day - so nothing to make him fizzy!

he gets worked 6 days a week, a variety of hacking jumping, lungeing and schooling.

he's a hannoverian x cob. having lessons with a good local instructor but she is a fearless rider so thinks the problems we have are minor! they are certainly not mior to me!

my confidence may have something to do with it, but he can be good as gold sometimes when i'm feeling nervous. it seems to depend on his mood - when he's in a bad mood he's bad to handle and to ride.

he is just as bad when my sister rides if he's in a stupid mood.

the problem with giving him back is that my sister is adamant she wont take on another horse if i decide he has to go back and i cant afford one on my own
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To be honest if you'd bought him I would say sure, try some natural horsemanship stuff etc but for all you say he's lovely (other than being a nightmare) is it really worth it if you are not enjoying doing the things you want? A hose that bolts when it sees large vehicles is dangerous. A friend of mine had one that killed itself when it bolted and hit a car. My mum's old welsh cob used to try bolt too when any large vehicle approched although i think my mum instlilled his behaviour by trotting away from anything like that and 'hiding' him in a drieway or something.

My horse is a fool and spooks etc at random sotuff but really I would say he's bombproof as he would never even consider bolting, spinning, rearing etc and he's impeccably behaved at shows, although he gets excited and interested in what's going on, he concentrates on the job in hand.

You either are going to have to put a heck of a lot of work in to this horse - reschooling, calming techniques, possible bit changes etc OR be brave and say, "this isn't for me i want something i can enjoy" and send him back explaining he's just too much.

Someone else may be able to click with him but you might have to realise it's not you or your sister. I have 4 horses (2 basically retired) who, although not novice rides would NEVER behave in that manner so there are others out there for you I'm sure. Riding's supposed to be fun surely?
 
Crikey its a toughie. But you have to draw the line when hes dangerous, and you dont wanna lose your confidence.
Sorry but this is not your fault no matter what your sister says. By the sounds of it you have tried and tried with him, if you want to keep hold of him maybe you could consider getting someone in/sending him away to see if anyone can help you?
I would be seriously peed off with the last owners for not mentioning anything.
Let us know the outcome
 
As other people have said does he behave this way with your sister or just you? does your sister spend as much time with him both on the ground and riding as you do?

If I was in your shoes I would be asking myself do I really want to persevere with this or hand him back and get a horse on loan I can really enjoy. Yes riding is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, why else do we spend so much time and money on our horses if we didn't actually enjoy it.

If you decide you want to persevere I would strongly suggest finding someone in your area who has experience of dealing with problem horses and engage them to help you. If this is not an option then how ever much you think you love your loan horse it is being tarnished with this behaviour and you will lose all confidence so hand him back.

not all horses are right for all people and by giving him back you are giving him the opportunity to find a new loaner who is right for him and his needs and likewise giving yourself the opportunity to get a new horse you can really enjoy
 
Don't know if it's just too much grass making him like it but if it isnt then you have to remember one thing -
We are supposed to keep horses for pleasure!
Don't ruin your confidence anymore, I have been there and it takes alot of getting back.
Good luck whichever decision you make
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Yes i'm finding it all very difficult. Thank you all so much for your support and your comments.

My sister and i both spend equal amounts of time with him and although he's considerably better than when we first got him - he is still dangerous at times.

His owner only remembers him as a superstar 5 year old - which i'm sure he was. She does not believe that he is as bad as we say. I think since she let him go a few years ago she has lost touch with what he's been doing and has no idea of what he's like now.

Other people at the yard are of the opinion that our problems are minor and tend to just think of us as novices that dont know what we're doing. Even though we've had horses there for years!
 
It doesn't matter wat other people think it's up to YOU! My friend has a horse she does great with at eventing but he rears, broncs (if excited) and has kicked her several times. She loves him but personally I wouldn't have anything like him, i can't be doing with that kind of behaviour, i don't want to wonder what injuries I'm going to get on a day to day basis.

Yeah sure, we've all fallen off our respective horses and had 'moments' when they're naughty, theyre animas, that's fair enough but when it gets to a point that really you are finding difficult to control you have to wonder what you're doing! He probably can sense you are nervous and thinks he can do whatever he likes and he'll continue to push it if you feel you cannot sort it. The worry i have is he'll get worse in this behaviour the more he gets away with it.
 
If I were in your position I would send him back. I had something very similar once but unfortunately he wasn't on loan! There was nothing physically wrong with him - he was just a total a*sehole! But like yours, was fine on the ground (generally).

Horses take up too much time and money for you to be feeling the way you do. It's your hobby and you're supposed to enjoy it! I got to the point with my old horse that I dreaded going to the yard.

If you can send it back, I would do it sooner rather than later, before your confidence goes downhill any further. If your sister wants him, tell her she can have him completely and step aside. There are some wonderful loan horses out there so I think you should definitely have a look for one. If you couldn't afford one, perhaps have a look at a share (but not with your sister!). It's much harder when you do this with friends/family!!

Good luck, I really feel for you, it's a horrible position to be in. Big hugs.
 
Could you not let your sister have complete control of him if she wants to keep him and you could maybe find someone looking for a sharer, there are alot of people out there woudl would like someone like you to contribute financially and do some riding/stable duties. this may suit you better if you cant afford one on your own?
 
Hi SarahK. You are in a tricky situation, but your safety is paramount. Could you cut the hard feed entirely (maybe just give him a balancer with a handfull of of chaff), keep him out all the time, on restricted grazing if necessary, so you can be absolutely sure the feed isn't contributing?

I expect he is actually quite sensitive and is sensing your nervousness, and therefore doesn't think his has a reliable leader (that's meant in the nicest way), so he reverts to the fight/flight mechanism whenever he's spooked/upset/thinks he can take the p*ss. Only you can decide whether a bit of professional help for both of you might help you overcome this. You need to portray yourself as firm and reliable, difficult though under current circumstances!

I think I would give him back to the owner. As someone else has already said, think how madly you'll fall for a horse which makes riding and looking after a pleasure! You sister should see sense on this final point too.
 
Sounds to me like his owners kept him on the poor side to keep him sane. Its suprising how many people do this.

I would send him back.

The last thing you want is your confidence distroyed. And having to cope with him 24/7 must take all the fun out of riding
 
You have stated that the problems you have with him are not minor to you.

Don't loose any more confidence - "Send him back" - and then spend some time finding yourself a horse which you are happy to jump on and do things with.

There is no point having a horse which frightens you and you are scared of riding.
 
How do you react when he misbehaves? What is he fed? How much turn out does he get? Have you had him checked for ulcers?

To me, he sounds like a strong willed git who has your number.

The first time he kicked at me I would have 'pounced' on him, give him a good hiding then back to normal. Repeat as needed. Horses are too big to get away with kicking/biting. You need to correct him firmly, in the same way every time he misbehaves.

Bucking under saddle? Put him on a small circle and make him work.
 
This is a no brainer to me - send him back. He sounds dangerous and is undermining your confidence. I can't see what pleasure you are getting out of him.
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If the owner thinks he is that great she won't have a problem re-loaning or selling him.
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How do you react when he misbehaves? What is he fed? How much turn out does he get? Have you had him checked for ulcers?

To me, he sounds like a strong willed git who has your number.

The first time he kicked at me I would have 'pounced' on him, give him a good hiding then back to normal. Repeat as needed. Horses are too big to get away with kicking/biting. You need to correct him firmly, in the same way every time he misbehaves.

Bucking under saddle? Put him on a small circle and make him work.

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He ALWAYS gets told off when he's naughty and has done ever since we've had him. We're not soft on him even if we do have confidence issues. He's fed virtually nothing now and he's no different to the way he was in the winter when he was fed quite a bit.

To be honest it tens to wind him up more when you tell him off - i think he likes to get a reaction. He's less spooky if you just ignore him when he does it. But he always gets told off if he rears, bucks, bites etc.
 
SarahK I think you have had some very good advise from everyone and it also seems that if you are honest you want to send him back.

I agree with what everyone has said and you should be enjoying your horse not dreading riding him. He needs an experienced person and there is no shame in making the decision to send him back. You need to think of yourself, instead of soldiering on and getting less and less confident and possibly making the horse worse.

Have another chat with your sister.

Good luck
 
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