I fell off, AGAIN! XC schooling **video**

vikkiandmonica said:
On the whole, it looks good! It sometimes seems like it isn't flowing well though, like, you seem to ask him to take off, and he chips in an awkward stride and you seem to have a bad jump, such as the skinny of brushes.
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I've followed some of your progress, but don't know the whole story so sorry if I'm barking up completley the wrong tree :)

I agree with what vikkiandmonica said in that it all looks good with a lot of potential but it's lost it's flow and it can all be a bit awkward.
Do you only ever cross country school as a group with a trainer around? Is it (as typical group xc lessons are) a case of being set an obstacle, watch each partnership do it a couple of times, complete it yourself, come back and stand?

Friend was doing this with her horse and he was really struggling, especially with skinnys and ditches because he was lacking confidence. However, the moment the skinnys and ditches were incorporated into a course he was in a good rhythm, both horse and rider were in a course mindset. They weren't focused on the individual jump, but the idea of navigating a whole field of obstacles, planning turns etc. The ditches and skinnys then weren't a problem for either of them as both were going forward in a natural stride.

You may well already take him round courses and link lots of fences, I just know my friend and her horse looked a lot like you do in the video, because they couldn't cope with the disjointed lessons.

They did a lot of pairs schooling. So went out with an experienced horse and rider and just kept in a flow linking jumps (round courses they both knew so they were prepared for what was coming). The "problem" horse was getting a lead from the experienced horse, so more confident, and both were forward and in a rhythm. They would jump at least 10 jumps in a constant, forward xc rhythm as they would if they were competing, before approaching a ditch or a skinny. After the ditch or the skinny they'd continue to another fence. So the horse never had a chance to back off because they're going forward to the next fence, not to the ditch. Any runs outs just meant they'd go back a fence or two and then experienced horse would jump and then "problem" horse. So that the "problem" horse never had a chance to stop or lose the rhythm.

Just a suggestion if it's something you haven't already tried. There is a lot of potential and a lot to like in the video, so here's hoping it is something you get sorted :)
 
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Breathe.............calm...down..... You're just upset right now. You need to focus on the positive and with the negative things you listed, work on them one by one. Set yourself smart targets. Here are mine as an example: My target was to pass my stage 2 riding exam.

* S - goals must be Specific = improve the canter and jumping so I can pass my stage 2 exam
* M - training targets should be Measurable = be able to ask for canter lead and get it - jump course of 70cm on the correct canter lead
* A - goals should be Adjustable = If I need more time, take the November exam.
* R - goals must be Realistic = ask riding instructor if I'm ready
* T - training targets should be Time based = 2 months for May exam
* E - goals should be challenging and Exciting = enter competition for experience
* R - goals should be Recorded = my blog
 
Over all I thought it was good.

I'm no expert but a lot of the time he looks tense, inside out even. I personally would see what happens if you take time to teach him to calm down and settle, ie jump a fence, circle, establish and nice rhythm and try again, never letting him jump unless he was settled more.

This works when my lad gets over excited SJ he soon learnt that he has to settle and then he can jump. It took a while and at first he got a LOT sillier but I kept on doing it and it has paid off big time

Then when he was allowed to jump it was lot smoother and safer
 
SusieT said:
To be totally honest I think that was a lot for him to take in. What's his past xc hsitory-has he done much before now? He looks quite green, looks a bit flustered by it all and not ready to do more technical things
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For what it's worth that was my first impression when I watched the video too (I enjoyed it btw - good tune! Lots and lots of positives in there too as others have pointed out).
He looks like a little horse that with time & practise is going to iron out all these issues no problem. It's a journey, don't forget to enjoy it :)
 
Thanks for all the kind comments, having watched it again I don't think it was as bad as I first thought.
Will have more practice over skinnies at home. :)

We have only done group lessons on a xc and it works well for him as when he gets wound up the best thing to do is stop him and let him chill out again and then try again.

DragonSlayer said:
Often it seems like we are fighting an uphill battle....but then oneday all comes together! Nice video, I enjoyed it!

On another note....how do you get your videos to play on the same screen, rather than as a link??

:D
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Get the URL of the video and the last part of it which is: MttaP5FebWU?hd=1

Then you type [youtube]**MttaP5FebWU?hd=1** [/ youtube] without the stars. :)

SusieT said:
To be totally honest I think that was a lot for him to take in. What's his past xc hsitory-has he done much before now? He looks quite green, looks a bit flustered by it all and not ready to do more technical things-did you try a ditch before the trakehner?
I would take him back to simple stuff that's easy and straightforward before worrying about skinnies.
Have you tried jumping showjumping skinnies?
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He has had the last two years off from xc but before then has competed to a high level xc and was done quite succesfully. We thought it was time to start pushing him as he was finding individual fences and easier combinations easy. He is fine over show jumping skinnies with/ without poles.

soulfull said:
Over all I thought it was good.

I'm no expert but a lot of the time he looks tense, inside out even. I personally would see what happens if you take time to teach him to calm down and settle, ie jump a fence, circle, establish and nice rhythm and try again, never letting him jump unless he was settled more.

This works when my lad gets over excited SJ he soon learnt that he has to settle and then he can jump. It took a while and at first he got a LOT sillier but I kept on doing it and it has paid off big time

Then when he was allowed to jump it was lot smoother and safer
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We do this a lot but it doesn't always work as he gets more and more wound up and once he is stressed the only thing you can do is stop him and settle him again.
 
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He is looking tons better condition wise than a few months ago :)

I watched the SJ vid you posted a few weeks ago and have the same feeling from this vid as i did from that one, you have to ride him between the fences, it looks like you do not have enough leg on. I would personally like to see him cantering forward more rather than hopping and flinging his head about. I would have taken him for a good canter round those fields and got him listening to his rider. He has a great pop in him so IMO it is not the fences you have to worry about it is about controlling the canter (and trot) coming into the jumps.
The first water you went into you had your leg around him riding him forward and it make the world of difference to the control you had with him.

I would also like to see your lower leg in a bit more forward, this way if he does put in a stop or a run out you will be far more secure in the saddle.

:)
 
Arghh need to remember more leg, it feels so weird putting it on but if I had the audio on you would hear that is pretty much the main thing the instructor was saying.

SusieT said:
When you say a high level what level?
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EEK I just made it sound like he jumped internationally! :p It's a high level for me.

He did PC Inter and Open which are very technical courses.
 
Watched vid, thought it was very good. Andy looks well, and you have more of a partnership which is fab. I like your riding.
Just out of curiosity, do you ride him in a martingale? (hard to see for me). It may just help with a bit more control - as a thought.
Good luck, don't be too hard on yourself. x
 
RuthnMeg said:
Watched vid, thought it was very good. Andy looks well, and you have more of a partnership which is fab. I like your riding.
Just out of curiosity, do you ride him in a martingale? (hard to see for me). It may just help with a bit more control - as a thought.
Good luck, don't be too hard on yourself. x
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Thank you. Nope he isn't in a martingale as I hate the way the running acts on his mouth and so does. We're slowly getting him used to the standing, he doesn't like it and it takes a while to ride him through it so haven't taken him out in it yet.
 
Don't be so hard on yourself, remember that riding is supposed to be fun! On the whole you both look great in the video, and both look like you are having a lot of fun. What I would add is that you appear to have a problem when he tenses and chucks his head in the air. Have you tried slowing down with your body as opposed to your hands? Is there somewhere out hacking where you can have a canter try pushing him forward and bringing him back just by adjusting you seat? It looked as though when jumping the two skinnies he chucked his head in the air so had no chance of locking on to the fence, particularly as he was going quite quickly. In theory if you can do less with your hands this should help this situation.

Also with regards to skinnies, have a play around with them in the school. Once you get more confident you can start jumping all sorts of combinations off difficult lines and angles, to improve your confidence. This way you will be ready to tackle anything out competing :)

I hope some of this is of some use to you. You look like a great partnership and I am sure you will find that things all click into place shortly. Good luck :)
 
so about 3 ft 3 and 3ft 6? I agree these are normally technical courses, possibly a few years back there wouldn't have been so many skinnies. He may have always had a block about them. I suggest you build your own at home if nowehre has small ones and just don't assume he is experienced as he looks flustered there, not helped by the tendancy to fling his head, which you will need to learn to let his head go at times. That is just experience though.
 
he's a lovely horse & as everyone else has said, don't beat yourself up, there is lots to like

what does your trainer say/think/suggest?

my one observation would be regarding the speed, because he's nipping along quite quickly, it looks like he isn't having enough time to consider the fence....resulting in some of the ducking out/awkward jumps. I would work on slowing the speed and increasing the power in the canter, so lots of varied stride length within your canter work, as well as encouraging him to come more round on the flat.

Skinnies and related distances can all be practised at home, those big blue plastic drums make great Skinnies and are spooky enough they have to be listening to you, rather than running a little flat,

really well done!
 
Kokopelli said:
Arghh need to remember more leg, it feels so weird putting it on but if I had the audio on you would hear that is pretty much the main thing the instructor was saying.
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I'd agree with this. Its really difficult on a horse that forward going to remember you really need to keep your leg on but I think that is the key, as in the one's where he runs out, though he's going quite fast, he's not really in front of your leg.

He also seems to be quite resistant to your hands - I wonder if a different bit might help, something that you can have a more consistent contact with?

I think you're doing a good job, he's not making it easy for you at all, but if you could get him properly between hand and leg you'd have a much better chance of controlling him.
 
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Dont be so hard on yourself. I dont think you are a bad rider at all and although he was a little sure on some of the jumps he jumped the rest well.
 
I'm trying very hard with the speed thing, it's getting better I think and hoping that by the time I'm ready to compete him it will be a lot slower.

We have a lot of poly jumps at our yard so I'm going to have a lot of practice with them.

We've just ordered a Kineton noseband to use ith his snaffle in hope this helps. We are also considering a tom thumb to try. He's in a myler pelham atm which seems to work alright but he does fight it as he's sensitive in the mouth so hoping the kineton will work.

Any other bit suggestions are appreciated. :)
 
Bearing in mind that only a few months ago you were scared to even canter in a field, I think you are doing bloody brilliant!!

I agree with some of the other posters, take it down a level, practice skinnies at home showjumping wise, work on the canter and the quality and rhythm and be able to adjust it.
He is quite similar to my old horse for throwing his head around and hopping about. That needs working on and will come with training.

One thing I did notice is if you aren't so sure about a fence, you aren't so good at giving with your hands over the fence, almost riding a bit too defensively. You know what he doesn't like and when you feel him looking, you seem to tense a bit a not 'flow' with him as well as the other fences that he finds easier and he looks a tad restricted at times.

Don't beat yourself up if it's not perfect everytime, you really are doing so well.
 
Kokopelli said:
Arghh need to remember more leg, it feels so weird putting it on but if I had the audio on you would hear that is pretty much the main thing the instructor was saying.
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:)

IME it is the thing riders of "hot" horses find most difficult to do, when a horse is tanking off (in any gait) putting your leg on seems the most unnatural thing to do but is the ONLY thing that will keep you under control!!

Do you have anywhere you can go to practice you canter work (no use doing it in the school). I was very lucky when i was mid teens to have a PTP jockey teach me how to canter\gallop a horse. Riding effectivley and competently in the faster gaits is something a lot of riders dont really get the chance to learn. Its a bit like how always driving on A + B roads never prepares you for driving on the motorway, its something you just have to do to get used to it.

FWIW i think that once you have mastered the canter\gallop work then you will have no problems with either the type of fence you put him at or have to worry about what bit you have in his mouth.

:)
 
maybe try him on some mag ox ?

I would do whatever it take to keep him calm and relaxed you will both be much happier then.

Keep trying the circle thing, as you say if does work sometimes but others you have to stop, so stop then circle again keep him chilled as possible, insist he works softly between fences
 
Thanks steadyeddy and Kirstie, I think I did jab him a bit at the 'bad' fences which wasn't helping matters. We've definitley decided to com right down in size and build my confidence up again.

Allover said:
:)

IME it is the thing riders of "hot" horses find most difficult to do, when a horse is tanking off (in any gait) putting your leg on seems the most unnatural thing to do but is the ONLY thing that will keep you under control!!

Do you have anywhere you can go to practice you canter work (no use doing it in the school). I was very lucky when i was mid teens to have a PTP jockey teach me how to canter\gallop a horse. Riding effectivley and competently in the faster gaits is something a lot of riders dont really get the chance to learn. Its a bit like how always driving on A + B roads never prepares you for driving on the motorway, its something you just have to do to get used to it.

FWIW i think that once you have mastered the canter\gallop work then you will have no problems with either the type of fence you put him at or have to worry about what bit you have in his mouth.

:)
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We aim to take him to places where I can work on gallop/ canter atleast once a fortnight as there isn't anywhere nearby. We have the beach next week and aim to take him to a common that isn't too far away. I also hope to hire some gallops some time.

soulfull said:
maybe try him on some mag ox ?

I would do whatever it take to keep him calm and relaxed you will both be much happier then.

Keep trying the circle thing, as you say if does work sometimes but others you have to stop, so stop then circle again keep him chilled as possible, insist he works softly between fences
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He's already on calmer which has made a difference as he is a lot more chilled (less bucking fits now and easier to control) We're hoping that the more xc we go to the more he'll settle.

Today we had a flatwork lesson in a field and normally the day after a xc I would have no hope of holding him in a snaffle but today he was an angel, I think it's because he's finding shows less exciting now.
 
Kokopelli said:
We aim to take him to places where I can work on gallop/ canter atleast once a fortnight as there isn't anywhere nearby. We have the beach next week and aim to take him to a common that isn't too far away. I also hope to hire some gallops some time.

.
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Jealous, jealous, jealous, jealous :D

Have fun :)
 
Another idea would be to see if you can find a local event rider and ask them if they would be willing to canter with you and give you some tips as you are going along, as well as being great fun its a good skill to have :)
 
I think you are being too hard on yourself. Alot of that looked lovely and as hes buzzy he wont be the easiest to ride and I think your doing really well.

One thing I would say is my whizzy ones are better if they go xc schooling by themselves, less standing around, you can just keep going without all the stop starting waiting. I wouldnt take my bold and keen one xc in a group as it would make her far worse and more difficult to keep in a rhythm in between what Im doing.

The other thing I wasnt overly keen on was the lady shouting and chasing him over the ditch (and it presumably was your instructor so you might choose to disregard it) If he is worried about ditches its no good chasing him over as it will all be done in panic, not giving him time to think about what it is he is doing and possibly giving him more worries about ditches. Yes it got him over it, but did it help resolve the issue in a more long term way? Id see if I could find some teeny tiny ditches and give him time to see and then trot over till hes bored about and realises there arnt pony munching monsters in there!! Then build it up to bigger and more scary ditches. Remember short term fixes give short term results.

Deffo dropping down a height at the harder jumps is a good idea, if its smaller you can always trot into skinnies to teach him not to duck out. Lots of canter circles, only letting him jump when hes calm, I have to do countless circles with my super keen one, but over time the amount of circles is getting reduced!!

Ill recap what I said at the start though, dont be hard on yourself, hes not the easiest to ride, your getting help, your doing the right thing and your doing well :)
 
He's looking so well, you should be proud of yourself!!

I would say that he's still using his speed to get the better of you - from what I could see it looked like his canter was a bit flat where he stopped, rather than the lovely bouncy canter you had at the other fences. My guess is that his canter gets too long and then he thinks "What the heck do I do with my feet at this speed?!" and ducks out rather than get it wrong and him fall.

Ron went through this phase too, and we concentrated on almost "show-jumping" each fence until he got the idea and the confidence to take them on a longer stride. You will always be able to make up time at PC/RC level on Andy as he's so quick!

Also, don't look at the jump/floor/water... keep looking ahead - it makes it sooo much harder for them to unbalance you when they stop!

ETA - ditches will come with time, just keep schooling over them in walk or trot until he's happy to just take them in his stride, then canter into them (nice bouncy canter!), then introduce a little jump after, then one before, then a rail-ditch-rail combo... job done! :D:D

keep smiling! it'll all come together, it's still early days!

ETA again... I didn't read the other replies, so sorry if I'm repeating them!!
 
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Lovely video :) hope you are ok after your fall!!

I think you are being too hard on yourself - in no way are you a bad rider, you ride Andy fantastically! He doesn't look like an easy ride by any means and you have come so far with him in such a short space of time!
 
Kokopelli said:
Will definitley have fun on the beach! I can't wait :D

My RI has a quadbike, would that work? (Andy wouldn't spook at it)
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It may do, best speak to your RI and see what she thinks as she knows you and the horse much better than i do!!:) Just a thought though that if Andy spooked sideways another horse would get out of the way and a Quad wont!

Did you say you have a gallop track nearby, if you do that would be the ideal place to go for the first time with another horse. If you are going to use a field make sure you stick as close to the fence line as possible and have a good reccy before you start to go at any speed.

The lady i learnt from used to make us clink stirrups as we were going along, it was a bit hair raising the first few times but damn good fun and also made you far more in control of the speed, accuracy and placement of the horse you were riding.

:)
 
In terms of bits, how is he in a waterford? They seem to be quite love/hate with horses, but can work really well.

I think a tom thumb sounds like a good idea, and I'd also experiment with different materials - my very very sensitive boy went well in both sweet iron and happy mouth mouthpieces - it could be a way to have the control but with a bit more acceptance.
 
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