I have never been so upset

charlie76 said:
The only thing I will add is that the examiners wouldn't know you have taken it before.
Apart from the horse being lazy were you in balance?
I have done all mine up to senior coach and stable managers up to bhsi level so know pretty much what they are looking for.
They want to see an effective rider in balance. They also want you to make a quick assessment of the horse and improve it.
did you have chance to warm up before jumping? If so what did your warm up consist of.
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The warm up was pretty quick - they asked us to warm the horses up and when we were satisfied to jump in trot. Then they told us to change the rein and do it from the other way adding the bounce. Do you think I should just leave it and not appeal? It's going to cost me another 75 pounds to do it and if you think I wouldn't get a resit, is it worth it?
 
Just wondered because I used to run up to the AI exams and how shall I put it , there's a huge advantage to having the person who has prepared you for the exam choose the horse you get on.
I guess you just got the short straw and the most difficult horse or perhaps you just could not find the key to him .
I have seen horses at the school I ran going embarrassingly badly ( for me as you dont want to make the wrong impression )during exams to come back in in another group and go well.
Safety tops all now , even giving you a fair crack, not allowing you to go on would not be a lightly taken desision.
 
Goldenstar said:
Just wondered because I used to run up to the AI exams and how shall I put it , there's a huge advantage to having the person who has prepared you for the exam choose the horse you get on.
I guess you just got the short straw and the most difficult horse or perhaps you just could not find the key to him .
I have seen horses at the school I ran going embarrassingly badly ( for me as you dont want to make the wrong impression )during exams to come back in in another group and go well.
Safety tops all now , even giving you a fair crack, not allowing you to go on would not be a lightly taken desision.
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Thanks for this - so do you think I should not appeal?
 
Ok, try not to berate me for this, but it might not have been your standard of riding, but your attitude that led them to cut short your exam. All I am hearing from you is how unfair it all was, couldn't do this, couldn't use that, had to bring our own food, really hot etc.
You live there, you know how hot it is. Most exam centres do not provide refreshments...all over the world. A toilet was provided, so why moan about not being able to use club restrooms...other people pay for the privilege of exclusive use.

It seems from the way you are posting on here that you were a bit annoyed/frustrated on the day. You might have ridden ok, but it might not have been deemed fair on the horse to be ridden by you when you were unhappy with it. As for not getting a chance on another horse...why? The horse you rode did nothing wrong. You only get another horse in an exam if the one you are given is unsuitable...ie. bucks repeatedly, cannot physically do what is asked of it. All over the world, people fail BHS exams and blame bad horses. There's no point berating the examiners...to pass you need to show that you are capable. If you are capable on a forward going horse, but cannot maintain energy in a ploddy horse, they have a duty to fail you. If they didn't, the world would be full of incapable instructors.

I am genuinely sorry if that sounds harsh...I don't mean it offensively...but I do mean it realistically.

The only thing you are justified in being annoyed at is how long you have had to wait...I really feel for you there as that must be very frustrating.
 
millreef said:
Thanks for this - so do you think I should not appeal?
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Honestly No I don't think you should however I think you might if you feel strongly write tho the exams department and explain how difficult you found the day ,how intimidating you found the venue etc.
We always had someone not taking the exams to look after and generally work to put outside candidates at their ease , it's a huge advantage to exams on home turf..
 
SpottedCat said:
Have you thought about the UKCC route rather than the BHS route if what you want is to teach? I think you'd find that more satisfying, more rewarding and ultimately more useful for what you want to do. UKCC L2 would be appropriate.

I've never bothered with BHS exams for exactly the reasons you outline - I'm perfectly competent, been placed at BE100 and competed BE Novice, but I have no doubt I would fail BHS exams!
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This.

I never passed my riding PC B test, (I passed the stable management part) not helped by the fact my PC instructor told me the day before I ride terribly and I wouldn't pass it, nothing like some traditional encouragement eh? I would be very dubious about doing any of the BHS courses as I think they are very old fashioned and stable management wise go back to the days of jute rugs etc. I've never met/seen anyone put on a rug the BHS way for instance! Do you need this test for Morocco, or are you telling yourself you need it, would they accept the UKCC, worth an ask?

FWIW you could have put a pro on that horse and the first thing they did would likely be get out a very large whip and use it when the horse was unresponsive, something that won't make you pass the BHS stage 2, but something that is pretty standard practice amongst anyone that works with horses.
 
Unless appealing with get the examiners back to re assess you on a different horse asap then I'm not sure what you'd really get for you £75. So if it was me I wouldn't bother with the appeal.

Unless you have a video of the session it will be you saying you were riding safely/ adequately and the assessors saying you weren't - the employers of the assessors are likely to be inclined to believe them rather than someone they don't know at all.
 
_GG_ said:
Ok, try not to berate me for this, but it might not have been your standard of riding, but your attitude that led them to cut short your exam. All I am hearing from you is how unfair it all was, couldn't do this, couldn't use that, had to bring our own food, really hot etc.
You live there, you know how hot it is. Most exam centres do not provide refreshments...all over the world. A toilet was provided, so why moan about not being able to use club restrooms...other people pay for the privilege of exclusive use.

It seems from the way you are posting on here that you were a bit annoyed/frustrated on the day. You might have ridden ok, but it might not have been deemed fair on the horse to be ridden by you when you were unhappy with it. As for not getting a chance on another horse...why? The horse you rode did nothing wrong. You only get another horse in an exam if the one you are given is unsuitable...ie. bucks repeatedly, cannot physically do what is asked of it. All over the world, people fail BHS exams and blame bad horses. There's no point berating the examiners...to pass you need to show that you are capable. If you are capable on a forward going horse, but cannot maintain energy in a ploddy horse, they have a duty to fail you. If they didn't, the world would be full of incapable instructors.

I am genuinely sorry if that sounds harsh...I don't mean it offensively...but I do mean it realistically.

The only thing you are justified in being annoyed at is how long you have had to wait...I really feel for you there as that must be very frustrating.
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It wasn't my intention to sound whingy, so apologies if that's how I've come across. I had imagined many different scenarios on the day, but this one was not one of them. I suppose I feel totally embarrassed and ashamed that I was asked not to continue. The day started at 5am and didn't finish until 8pm when I finally got home, had a shower and reached out to my friends on the Horse and Hound for solace.
 
there has to be more to this, surely:confused:

when they told you to get off and not continue, did you not ask for a reason why? did they explain their reasons?
 
Nope. I wouldn't appeal, won't get you anywhere.

When I did my last exam, the equitation and teaching, it cost £500. I know I wasn't perfect but jumped clear in the show jumping, I went clear xc on a horse known to be a stopper, rode the flat horses well, so much so that some one who worked there said he had not seen the horse go so well and got a stiff horse going better on the lunge. When I got the results I had failed, the comments didn't match what had happened and the initials next to the comments from each examiner were not of those who examined me. I honestly think my results were mixed up, when I called the bhs to tell them they simply said it was a printing error. I had to just accept it and walk away. What else could I do?
 
I didn't know you could do that in Hong Kong, my hubby's just been over there and apart from racing I didn't think they had normal riding! Sorry Im digressing! :)
I'd appeal, on my BHS exam I was put on a 17hh horse when I'm only little and it ******ed off with me with no stirrups! I pulled it up and asked to go again and they let me and passed me. There has to be some flexibility as horses are all different and you won't always know the horse that your given.
Can you call the BHS and ask their advice and opinion as to wether they think its worth it?
 
millreef said:
It wasn't my intention to sound whingy, so apologies if that's how I've come across. I had imagined many different scenarios on the day, but this one was not one of them. I suppose I feel totally embarrassed and ashamed that I was asked not to continue. The day started at 5am and didn't finish until 8pm when I finally got home, had a shower and reached out to my friends on the Horse and Hound for solace.
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I am a little prickly at the moment as well, but I stand by what I said...sometimes we can let little things annoy us and ruin what we are really trying to do. If you were up at 5 and shattered by the time you got to ride after having to hang around watching everyone else do the flatwork, along with other little frustrations, it can be hard to self assess with any degree of honesty.

We only have your word to go on, and your word may be good, but to be honest, with the situation you describe, you may not even have been aware that you were riding in a certain way that may have given them cause to ask you to get off.

Let's put it this way...I have a couple of sisters that I teach on their shared pony. One sister can be on the pony and it will happily and confidently jump nice little 2ft fences with no issues at all, you hardly see the rider using her legs, the pony is just forward. The second sister will get on and without my input, she could kick and smack that pony into next week and it will still dawdle and barely make it over the jump without coming back to walk before hind legs have cleared it. If I leave her to it, she gets frustrated and no amount of her work trying to get the pony going forward helps. Instead, I have to bring her back to walk, get her doing transitions and earning a bit of respect from the pony and low and behold, after just 1-2 minutes, the pony will jump for her like he will for her sister.

The second sister is a very capable little rider when under instruction, but left to her own devices, is unable to assess the pony and figure out how to get the best from him. This could be what happened with you. I don't know that, but it is one of the possibilities, so this is why I don't feel you would be right to pursue this.

I would also consider UKCC as an alternative route. BHS exams are great, but they are not the be all and end all.

Hope that all makes sense.
 
OP , I thought in the Stage 2 you have to ride two horses? I know a good few who have failed the jumping a couple of times, dont beat yourself up about it. ( know easier said than done )

Based on below, I think you need to show competence over a fence no matter if its a donkey put on front of you..


"When jumping, they must again show confidence
and an acceptable level of competence with unknown
horses" -

maybe they took your frustration as lack of confidence?

Just curious, are horses assessed for their suitability for the riding section of BHS Exams?
 
SNORKEY said:
I didn't know you could do that in Hong Kong, my hubby's just been over there and apart from racing I didn't think they had normal riding! Sorry Im digressing! :)
I'd appeal, on my BHS exam I was put on a 17hh horse when I'm only little and it ******ed off with me with no stirrups! I pulled it up and asked to go again and they let me and passed me. There has to be some flexibility as horses are all different and you won't always know the horse that your given.
Can you call the BHS and ask their advice and opinion as to wether they think its worth it?
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The horse you were put on did something wrong though, so it was right for them to offer you another chance. The horse in this thread did nothing wrong. He may have been a plod, but how many people on this forum have got on a so called plod only to find it hard to stop and really quite whizzy, just because they have actually ridden it well?

Millreef, if the reason was that you were unbalanced, I would not fret too much about your riding if your normal instructor doesn't think you have this issue. Nerves can make us tense and tension on a lazy horse can mean exaggeration of the aids as you unknowingly try using your whole body to get them going forward. This can mean you look unbalanced and all over the place, when in fact you are just putting all of your effort into riding.

I would personally write it off to experience, but I wouldn't necessarily let it stop me doing it again if it is something you really want.
 
showpony said:
OP , I thought in the Stage 2 you have to ride two horses? I know a good few who have failed the jumping a couple of times, dont beat yourself up about it. ( know easier said than done )

Based on below, I think you need to show competence over a fence no matter if its a donkey put on front of you..


"When jumping, they must again show confidence
and an acceptable level of competence with unknown
horses" -

maybe they took your frustration as lack of confidence?

Just curious, are horses assessed for their suitability for the riding section of BHS Exams?
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Yes. I have been present at exams where examiners have sent horses back to the yard for replacement as they have turned out not to be well schooled enough, but it doesn't happen very often and when it does, it gets addressed to make it fair on the candidates. Unfortunately, no matter how good a rider you are there will always be a type of horse that you have difficulty with. For me, it's really fine horses...I just can't get a feel for them. For some it is wide cobs, for some it is TBs. That's just the luck of the draw unfortunately...it doesn't mean the horse isn't suitable. I don't like fine horses, but have had to learn how to.

OP...find some advantage from this and use it.
 
millreef said:
That's it really - I want it. I've failed it twice now and it's becoming a thing I have to prove to myself.
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Then do it again. But, do yourself a favour. If you have been using the same instructor, go to someone else for an honest assessment. If that is difficult, get one of your lessons filmed and send to a few different instructors to get an honest assessment.

I hate to say it, but there are plenty of instructors that blow smoke up our arses as it means we leave happy and so keep going back and putting more money in their pocket. Before you sit the exam again...let a few different people see you ride.
 
I would ring the BHS for advice but I wouldn't pay £75 unless they convince you that you would at least have a fair chance. I would definitely be giving them some feedback on the whole day.

When I did one of the exams a lady was asked to leave for reasons which I felt were ridiculously harsh, the examiner barely gave the poor woman a chance. She had travelled all the way from Greece to take the exam so I bet she wasn't pleased either.

One thing I learnt about doing the stages was that you had to be very particular and do everything in the BHS way at all times, no deviations...as another poster has said, you wouldn't use your instincts or initiative if it meant changing anything as prescribed. I think you have to approach the exams in that manner, rather than argue your case or use logic or anything :D

I can understand why you feel so upset and frustrated so I would leave it a few days, mull on it awhile and then give them a call and see what they suggest and how they can help you, good luck :)
 
millreef said:
I'm trying....... nope.........wait a minute........and it's gone:(
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Advantage is, you have had the chance to realise that you don't get a choice of horse. Use this advantage. Get out there and train/have lessons on as many different horses as you can.

Advantage is, whilst you know initiative can be used, you know how exacting the BHS are, so quiz your instructors on how to get the most out of a horse without going outside the boundaries of exam etiquette.

Advantage is, you knew this horse was sloooow. This means you may know the horses next time you do an exam. As soon as you are given your horse, think for a few moments how best you think you should ride that type of horse before you actually ask it anything.

Example...slow horse. Do the warm up concentrating on transitions to get the horse off the leg. Reward the forward movement and use the warm up to let the horse know in no uncertain terms that you expect more from it.

Example...whizzy horse. Do the warm up concentrating on settling the horse into a relaxed rhythm, rewarding it for accepting your leg and listening to your downwards transitions, letting it know that you expect quiet and relaxation from it.

This way, those 2 minutes prep in your head can mean a huge advantage over people who have never seen their horse before and have to get on blind.
 
I sort of feel there's more to this than meets the eye - they must have had more serious reservations than you realise. I think you need to know what the problem was so you can either address it, or seek an alternative route.

For what it's worth, Fergs will crawl over fences with one friend of mine riding him. Chips in, very sticky over fences, totally lacking confidence to take the fence on with any gusto and isn't much better on the flat. He's not a plod, but she cannot find his buttons. He reverts to "go quietly and look after rider" mode.

Obviously I can get him going properly, but equally, stick dafthoss on him and she can too (despite the fact she's a midget and can't get her leg on properly in my long flapped vsd!) and has popped him over some sizeable xc fences even with him going rather green at his first PC rally.

My point is really that a horse may seem a plod, because you can't find its buttons. I've ridden horses whose buttons I can't find - this isn't necessarily an assassination of your skills - and some I've really struggled to get moving forward flowingly. I'm not sure I'd pass my BHS exams though ;)
 
millreef said:
They didn't feel I was balanced enough to attempt the course which is the second part of the exam. Another lady was also asked to get off too.
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If you had said this straight off, the responses may have been different. I don't think it's worth appealing.

You say you run the pony club in Morocco every year anyway so I can't see the need for you to pass this stage 2? Is it an insurance or Health & Safety question?
 
millreef said:
I'm trying....... nope.........wait a minute........and it's gone:(
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OP lots of ability to pass exams in technique not whether you can do the thing they are testing.

A good driving instructor will teach how to pass the driving test - once passed the 18 y/os still aren't good drivers, - the instructors job is to teach them how to pass but not how to be good drivers - if that makes sence!!

Same with accountancy exams, maths tests etc.

Firstly - just because you didn't pass the exam does not mean you can't jump. I have managed to keep horses alive at home for many years and I certainly wouldn't pass a BHS management exam, far too many bad habits!

Secondly - if you want to pass the exam you need to find an instructor who will teach you how to pass - not how to ride - big difference. It's all about knowing what the examinors will look for and technique not about riding at all!
 
_GG_ said:
Advantage is, you have had the chance to realise that you don't get a choice of horse. Use this advantage. Get out there and train/have lessons on as many different horses as you can.

Advantage is, whilst you know initiative can be used, you know how exacting the BHS are, so quiz your instructors on how to get the most out of a horse without going outside the boundaries of exam etiquette.

Advantage is, you knew this horse was sloooow. This means you may know the horses next time you do an exam. As soon as you are given your horse, think for a few moments how best you think you should ride that type of horse before you actually ask it anything.

Example...slow horse. Do the warm up concentrating on transitions to get the horse off the leg. Reward the forward movement and use the warm up to let the horse know in no uncertain terms that you expect more from it.

Example...whizzy horse. Do the warm up concentrating on settling the horse into a relaxed rhythm, rewarding it for accepting your leg and listening to your downwards transitions, letting it know that you expect quiet and relaxation from it.

This way, those 2 minutes prep in your head can mean a huge advantage over people who have never seen their horse before and have to get on blind.
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Wise words:o
 
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