I have no brakes...

[Lvrees]

Took the wild beast out yesterday for a plod over the common and he was wild!! Not wild in the sense he was going to throw me on the floor, but wild compared to the way he was last year (idle!!). I was jumping some random bushes and trees etc, but had absolutely no brakes, I was literally on my arse hunter stylee trying to circle him to pull him up but he just bronced and tried to take off. He has gradually been getting stronger and stronger when I jump him, not so much at home but at competition and club he's been too strong, I'm literally hanging off of his mouth.

At the moment, he's in a hanging cheek, I've tried him in the pelham which on the flat he's lovely but for jumping, with his excitment he just goes into himself and goes up rather than forward, which is not what I want. Previously tried him in a waterford and he was dead in the mouth. So tomorrow going to try a continental gag. Now before I get shot down... (I know there are many Anti's out there!) There is a place for them, and no I do know a little bit about bitting (have equine sports performance degree, am a bhs instructor and ride for a show jumper!).

But was wondering if that was not to work, i.e just made him over bent and again was too strong like the pelham, any other suggestions. I need feel, but brakes.

He doesnt need a flash or grackle, as he doesnt lock or open his jaw, just pulls down and tanks off after a jump!

Apart from being strong this is the best he's been for ages, last year when showing I was critisised in both my HOYS and RIHS qualifiers for him being too lazy and was put down from being in a qualifying position to 3rd, so this forward going attitude is something I dont want to lose, he's also jumping better, but I just have no control!!

So any suggestions!? Gratefully received!!

Thanks xx

 

[goeslikestink]

try a vuconite kimbleiwck its a happy medium

 

[Bedlam]

Nelson waterford gag.

Not sure what you mean by dead in the mouth when you tried a waterford before, but we call the nelson waterford gag the magic bit because it seems to work miracles in horses that are just as you describe.......!

 

[Lvrees]

Had no feeling, went round with his head like a llama and refused to work forward into an outline. It was a loose ring though.

 

[showjump2003]

Hey. Hope you and the lovely coloured horse are ok.

I'm no bit expert but have you tried an english gag? See if a different action works?

I find a kimblewick much better on my horse than a dutch gag but obviously every horse is different. You could try the dutch gag on two reins as it's supposed to be used and see how you go.

 

[charliecrisps]

The only thing i could ever stop my cob in was a Mcgenis!

 

[KatB]

Dislike "dutch gags". Have just brought mine a Cartwheel gag, that although only a small step up from the snaffle, gives me a good 1.5inch of gag action. Rode mine in it today and he was light as a feather but still taking it forward (has a nathe mouthpiece) Hopefully wil continue!!

 

[0ldmare]

Might be worth trying a Myler combination. Its worked well with one of my horses who sounds similar. The good thing is that you can try it before you buy so although they are expensive you can be sure it works. I went for the short shank version, but there is a long shank one for really strong horses.

 

[Sophiesmum]

I'm with the Mcgenis brigade too - being out of control is just such a horrid feeling! Good luck!

 

[Sophiesmum]

But should just add - have only had to use it on one horse, she just didn't accept a cheltenham gag or 3 ring snaffle, but was fine in the Mcgenis

 

[charliecrisps]

I liked the fact that the mcgenis just looks like a normal snaffle when you ride too.

 

[Abbeygale]

What about changing your nose band?

 

[The Original Kao]

have u thought about trying a hackamore rather than different bits or nose bands?
def worth trying various different things until u find the right thing for him.
also assuming he's had teeth, back etc checked

just found out a pony at the yard i'm at (has been in a dutch gag for a few years,) just had his teeth done a few days ago (hadn't been done in years). his teeth were very bad. vet was amazed he was even rideable. know going to try him in a snaffle. i've only just become yard manager there. poor pony must've been in pain

 

[elsielouise]

I've got a mare that looks v similiar as the one in your sig. She's Hanovarian X cob and can pull for Britain. I've been on the bitting roundabout for a safe jumping fix ever since I started jumping her.

For us a rubber pelham with roundings seems to work best. A kimblewick does similiar. I use the pelham with a loose gag noseband though not sure how much that helps.

She doesn't do anything with her jaw either just leans and runs through me.

She is incredibly sensitive though and can stop on the buckle when she feels like it. I've also tried a myler with success until a hunter trial when we ran round one of the jump fields before I coud pull up. Stylish wasn't!

 

[Lvrees]

Not gonna change his noseband as like a said he doesnt open his mouth he just puts his head down. Again don't think the hackamore is the right option for him, even though he's strong he's sensitive and with the hackamore he'd back off it too much. And yes, back and teeth are fine, dentist and physio both visit regularly, and it is just pure excitement and him being over fit.

Forgot the gag today so took him out in the rugby and he was good, just like I said before a bit stuffy.

Some great suggestions though will have a shop around to see if there are any bargains on ebay!

 

[flyingfeet]

If he puts his head down you need something that works in a lifting action

The only bits that will do this are a true running gag (the type on cheeks) or a tom thumb / jumper bit.

The only severe bit is one that you bruise the mouth with, so hauling on a snaffle is pointless!

 

[cavalo branco]

Posted on here before about my last mare who was strong - after much trial and error she was tried in a vulcanite kimblewick for hunting/jumping. Don't quite understand why, but she went beautifully in it from the first trial.

 

[Lvrees]

[ QUOTE ]
If he puts his head down you need something that works in a lifting action

The only bits that will do this are a true running gag (the type on cheeks) or a tom thumb / jumper bit.

The only severe bit is one that you bruise the mouth with, so hauling on a snaffle is pointless!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeh exactly why I need a new bitting option, At the moment I'm hanging off his mouth in the snaffle, so a stronger bit where less contact is required will not only make it easier for me to control him, but will be a thousand times nicer to him.

Trial and error as you say.

I think the problem with the vulcanite pelham is he doesn't have a big mouth so may lean on it even more. But I will try.

Thanks!