I just to restart Harvey's vaccinations!

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Patches

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Took puppy along for his second jab today to our local vet and was surprised to hear him say "he's barely vaccinated" and I needed to start the course again!

At eight weeks he only had Canigen Parvo-C and Canigen Lepto2. He was not covered for Hepatitis, Distemper or Parainfluenza.

How annoying. I'd paid for his to have his first jab, think it cost £36, before he left his breeder. A complete course of Duramune DAPPi+LC with my own vet is £39 (you pay for the complete course when they have the first one, as it makes people more likely to not forget the second one).

There was me thinking he'd be able to go out next weekend. How wrong was I? At least he's going to be fully covered though. I'd hate to have been in the catchment for the first vet a, for the second jab, and had assumed he was fully covered.
 
I had the breeder not vaccinate Harley before I got him. I'd spoken to my vet a few weeks before and he warned me that different vets use different vaccines which aren't all compatible. So if the one the breeders used wasn't the same as my vets he would have to start again. So I decided just to get him done as soon as I picked him up.

The breeders were surprised, but happy. He went to their vet for a health check before I collected him anyway.
 
Yes, i'd heard this one! Thankfully R's breeder and I use the same vet (vet b, not the miseable sods at vet a
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) so i was able to double check everything and they know her from birth. Must be so so difficult when you have to travel to get a pup.
I wonder if its easier to pay more for a pup and know both vaccs are done or to ask the breeder NOT to jab and just have it done yourself? I mean no-one actually takes tiny pups out for starters anyway and whats a 4 week wait?

You must have been so annoyed, I would have been!
 
I just don't know what is right and what's wrong. Also I'm very concerned about the amount of vaccines that will have been put into Harvey's system in a month.

Why can't the different brands be compatible? Two of the other pups have been for the second jabs today and neither of them had any problems or concerns voiced by their vet. They just had a second jab. Simples.

Arrrgggh! Now I'm confuddled.

I asked, and paid extra, for Harvey to have his first jab done before he left his mother and siblings as I felt that might be kinder to him.
 
I must admit I have never heard a vet say that vaccines can be incompatible Patches
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Although it is a long time since I had a puppy Islay had to be re-started when I got her at the age of 5 since her vaccinations had been allowed to lapse.

In fact the only query I have ever had was with Flick, who had been vaccinated in Ireland - apparently some English vets dont think Irish vaccinations are sufficient, although mine were fine with them.

How incredibly frustrating for you though, just when you thought you could get out and about
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And obviously the breeders vet is one to avoid if they cant even get vaccinations right
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I think you should mention it to the breeders Patches. I've never heard of different batches being incompatible either, Evie had Canigen DHPPi and Lepto 2 with her breeder and then Duramune DAPPi and LC for her 2nd with my vet. They never mentioned a risk, although she had of couse had full vaccs at initial jab.
 
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I think you should mention it to the breeders Patches. I've never heard of different batches being incompatible either, Evie had Canigen DHPPi and Lepto 2 with her breeder and then Duramune DAPPi and LC for her 2nd with my vet. They never mentioned a risk, although she had of couse had full vaccs at initial jab.

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Just to clarify it was Charlie and Galaxy who said she's heard some vets say some are incompatible. I was merely asking why. My vet never said it wasn't compatible, just that he had been "barely" vaccinated the first time, only being covered for Lepto and Parvo, and he couldn't now cover him with DAPPi + LC to complete his immunity, given what he'd had at the initial vaccination. It still left him missing certain elements.

That seems to fit with your list of cover, MurphysMinder, as clearly Evie did have more (as you say) with her initial jab than Harvey.

The breeder is quite concerned that he's being started again and is worried about his susceptibility to auto immune diseases due to being over vaccinated. I'm a little panicky now. She cannot believe he's had lepto and parvo again. As I said, she has reported that the other two have had their second jabs no problems, without either vet (neither of those vets being the vet used the first time) voicing any concerns or complaints.

I'd like to trust my vet, and indeed I do, but I can't help being concerned now especially after the breeders comments/concerns.
 
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The breeder is quite concerned that he's being started again and is worried about his susceptibility to auto immune diseases due to being over vaccinated. I'm a little panicky now. She cannot believe he's had lepto and parvo again. As I said, she has reported that the other two have had their second jabs no problems, without either vet (neither of those vets being the vet used the first time) voicing any concerns or complaints.

I'd like to trust my vet, and indeed I do, but I can't help being concerned now especially after the breeders comments/concerns.

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I would be more concerned about the breeders vets not vaccinating against distemper and hardpad the first time around
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my vet said it was something to do with vets using different brands and if you use one brand for the 1st one it won't work with a different brand being used for the 2nd. Does that make any sense?

I did double check it elsewhere.

However, my vet said it wouldn't matter if he had had his 1st vacc, and then had to have a different 1st vacc by a different brand soon after. It wouldn't hurt him in any way. So I wouldn't worry. I'm sure he'll be fine. We just decided not to get the breeder to vacc him.
 
I don't know what the usual procedure is and how the initial vets would have been able to give him full immunity with a second jab, but I assume it is possible, given that two of the other pups have now had their second jabs without any hiccups. I have always presumed that all vaccinations were pretty routine/standard. Never heard of them being broken down into single jabs like that. He has two stickers for the first vaccinations....one for the lepto 2 and one for parvo, with separate batch numbers.

My own vet said he could've had just one Lepto jab, had he been having it now, but giving it before 10 weeks means they need a second dose.

Will it not hurt him to have three vaccinations in 4 weeks? The breeder was telling me that Cockers are treated differently, and asked if the vet knows that Cockers need to vaccinated differently, due to them being prone to autoimmune diseases. I had no idea this was the case. I feel somewhat ignorant to have not known this. Jasper was routinely jabbed, the same way that all of the other farm dogs have been, for the duration of his life.

If I read it correctly, is he now fully covered for Parvo and Leptospirosis? Would it still be a huge risk to open the yard gate up into our enclosed garden ahead of his second jab with my own vet? Our little yard area is only about 12ft square, and he seems to want to run a wall of death around it. Blue dust bricks (which make up the flooring) are quite slippery at this time of year. It's only a little walled garden bit around the front of the house. The main garden leads from it, but has a gate to stop him getting into it.
 
i hate it when breeders just get their vets to give parvo and lepto - it means starting the whole course over again and normally the owner has been told their pup just needs a 2nd vacc which just isn't true. Canigen make the full DHPPiL and their data sheet says they need 2 jabs of this 2wks apart to give full protection. Sometimes we do see pups where the breeder has given a one off Parvo jab at 6wks if they're in a parvo prone area as maternal immunity probably wears off before 8wks leaving them at risk. That is fine, we just then start the normal course at 8 and 10wks. The owners normally are told it's just a parvo vacc though and are expecting a full course. It's the ones that have had half a vacc and have been told that's the full first part of their course I dont understand. You cant get immunity to distemper, hepatitis and parainfluenza from one jab. If the breeder is concerned about him having 3 jabs perhaps she ought to have got the full one done in the first place. I vaccinate loads of cockers and never any different to any other dog.

with regards to different brands not being compatable. They are all made differently with different methods of inactivating the viruses. Each manufacturer will not tell you it's ok to use one of theirs if they've had a different one to start with, so officially we are meant to recommend that people restart a full course of the brand we stock. i just tell people that and let them decide.
 
That's the bit I don't understand, Star. I would assume the other two pups had the same first vaccination as Harvey and yet they've been able to just have a second jab. I'm confuddled and also a little concerned as to whether they are now covered. Maybe, for some reason, he didn't do Harvey with the same vaccines.

I don't mind starting him again, I just wish I hadn't bothered paying for him to have the first vaccination as it's been a waste of money and time. I would have quite happily taken him to my own vet the day or day after I bought him. I simply decided that as he was having a vet check the day before with the breeder's vet that it would be kinder to him to have been done before he left her. I asked if this was possible and covered the cost.

As far as I am aware the breeder hasn't purposely only had Parvo and Lepto done. She knew I wanted his first vaccination doing, and this is what she asked for....and more importantly what she believes he had done. I do not hold her at fault in any way.

I'm glad you've cleared it up for me Star. So pleased you've posted. I was concerned, with the breeder's comments, that I might have done something wrong for Harvey.

It's an inconvenience I could've done without though. Is he now fully covered for Parvo? Is this the biggest risk, where foxes would be concerned? I'm not sure if I dare let him into our garden as we live on a farm and sometimes foxes do prowl. I let him into a small enclosed entrance yard bit which I can disinfect every couple of days. I'm not so worried that he can't "go out" for walks yet, as he's still tiny. I'd just like to have been able to give him access to a little more space as he's starting to run a wall of death around the little dust brick yard.
 
no, distemper is his biggest risk from foxes and he's not covered for that yet.

i am at a complete loss as to why some vets are only giving parvo/lepto then if the breeder's aren't requesting it - i thought it might just be breeders cutting costs. no-one else in my practice understands it either.
 
DHPPi
Primary Course Vaccination
A single injection should establish active immunity to canine distemper, infectious canine hepatitis and disease caused by canine parvovirus infection in dogs of 10 weeks of age or older. Where earlier protection is required a first dose may be given to puppies from 6 weeks of age, but because maternally derived passive antibody can interfere with the response to vaccination a final dose at 10 weeks of age or older is generally recommended. For an optimal response to the parainfluenza component, animals should be vaccinated twice, 2-4 weeks apart with the final vaccination at 10 weeks of age or more.
Booster Vaccination
It is recommended that dogs be revaccinated with canine distemper virus, canine adenovirus and canine parvovirus every 3 years and against canine parainfluenza virus every year.
It was not possible to produce clinical signs of kennel cough by parainfluenza challenge in adult dogs and duration of immunity could not therefore be demonstrated, but an anamnestic response was seen in dogs given a booster one year after primary vaccination. Revaccination against parainfluenza is recommended prior to exposure to high risk environments (such as kennelling, showing or mixing with dogs of unknown vaccination history).
Further Information
Experience has shown that the maternal antibody status of pups within a litter varies greatly and reliance should not be placed on serological examination of the bitch alone.
A good immune response is reliant on the reaction of an immunogenic agent and a fully competent immune system. The immunogenicity of the vaccine antigen will be reduced by poor storage or inappropriate administration. Immunocompetence of the animal may be compromised by a variety of factors including poor health, nutritional status, genetic factors, concurrent drug therapy and stress.
Can be used in pregnant bitches which have previously been vaccinated with the CDV (strain Onderstepoort), CAV2 (strain Manhattan LPV3), CPV (strain 154) and CPi (strain Cornell) antigens included in the Canigen vaccine series.
 
Lepto:
Dosage and administration
The contents of one vial (1 ml) should be administered by subcutaneous injection. Sterile equipment should be used for administration.
Primary course vaccination: All dogs not previously vaccinated should be vaccinated twice 2-4 weeks apart.
Puppies should be at least 6 weeks of age before they receive the first vaccination.
Booster vaccination: A single annual booster dose is recommended.
Canigen Lepto 2 may be used to reconstitute Canigen DHPPi ,PPi and Pi and as indicated in the
appropriate package inserts.
The product may be used in pregnant bitches which have previously been vaccinated with Canigen L.
For more detailed advice on vaccination programmes and how Canigen Lepto 2 may be used in conjunction with other Canigen dog vaccines in specific circumstances contact the company direct.
 
Parvo-C
Primary course vaccination
A single injection should establish active immunity to disease caused by canine parvovirus infection in dogs of 10 weeks of age or older. Where earlier protection is required a first dose may be given to puppies from 4 weeks of age, but because maternally derived passive antibody can interfere with the response to vaccination a final dose at 10 weeks of age or older is generally recommended.
Booster vaccination
It is recommended that dogs be revaccinated every 3 years.
 
Thanks for that. Will keep him in the yard then. I've never actually seen a fox in our garden, as there's plenty of other places for them to go, but I can't be 100% sure.

The yard is gated in three places, only 12ft square and I can't imagine it's of interest to any foxes. I do disinfect with Virkon every couple of days, but Harvey wouldn't go for a wee/pooh on paper, so we had to take him outside from the off.

It's only another three weeks. The house is big and he's discovered he can chase cats (house cats), so he's burning enough energy that way.

My vet did say "What bloody use was that?" when he saw the vaccination card. I see you hold the same sentiments.
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As I say, it was something I personally requested, as did two of the other new owners. We covered the costs, not the breeder, so no pennies were being saved. Infact, the cost of that one vaccination was only a £3 less than what I'm now paying for a complete course of Duramune. No saving at all.

Really grateful you've replied as you have put my mind at rest. I do wonder what the other two pups had though.
 
Parainfluenza:
Primary course vaccination
Before the age of 12 weeks:
Two vaccinations, each with a single dose: the first vaccination from the age of 8 weeks onwards and the second vaccination 2-4 weeks later.
From the age of 12 weeks onwards: single vaccination, with one dose per animal Onset of immunity:
4 weeks after vaccination
Booster vaccination
Annually with a single dose
 
DHP:
accination regime
Primary course vaccination
A single injection should establish active immunity in dogs of 10 weeks of age or older. Where earlier protection is required a first dose may be given to puppies from 6 weeks of age, but because maternally derived passive antibody can interfere with the response to vaccination a final dose should be given 2-4 weeks later i.e. at 10 weeks of age or older.
Booster vaccination
To maintain protection a single booster dose is recommended every three years.
The product can be used in pregnant bitches which have previously been vaccinated with Canigen DHPPi, Canigen DHP, Canigen PPi or Canigen Pi
 
This is fascinating Star, thank you for posting
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So in laymans terms, lepto and parainfluenza should be boosted annually, and parvo/hardpad/distemper every 3 years???

I am looking at my dogs vaccination records now
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ETA - oh, I have just had to google parainfluenza to confim that it is kennel cough
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I thought you had to vaccinate against kennel cough with a nasal spray thing?
 
right, that's all the info i could find on Canigen. i'm guessing the other pups have had DHPPiL as their 2nd vacc and according to the above as long as they were 12wks old then this would cover them for everything in combination with their first vacc of Parvo/Lepto.

Duramune and the other brands dont have a license to give immunity from a single vacc hence having to have the full course.

Mystery solved.

I dont like waiting till 12wks for the 2nd vacc though as you've then gotta wait another 2wks for them to be fully covered according to the data sheet whereas with Duramune you give the 2nd vacc at 10wks and they can go out a week after that.
 
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This is fascinating Star, thank you for posting
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So in laymans terms, lepto and parainfluenza should be boosted annually, and parvo/hardpad/distemper every 3 years???

I am looking at my dogs vaccination records now
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ETA - oh, I have just had to google parainfluenza to confim that it is kennel cough
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I thought you had to vaccinate against kennel cough with a nasal spray thing?

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parvo/hepatitis/distemper (hepatitis is not hardpad - that's a laymans term for distemper) - but yes, every 3yrs is licensed by some vaccine brands, not all though and not all seem to agree that immunity lasts 3yrs. the stuff i quoted only applies to Canigen vaccines.
 
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ETA - oh, I have just had to google parainfluenza to confim that it is kennel cough
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I thought you had to vaccinate against kennel cough with a nasal spray thing?

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parainfluenza is one part of kennel cough (the viral part). the other part is bacterial and is covered by the nasal vaccine which contains Bordetella Bronchisepta.
 
Arrr I see. So as they are 10 weeks now, it is still not possible for them to have fully immunity for everything. Distemper and Parvo yes...but not the rest. As the other two pups have now had their second jabs, I fail to see how they are fully covered IF they only had what Harvey did the first time.
 
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Arrr I see. So as they are 10 weeks now, it is still not possible for them to have fully immunity for everything. Distemper and Parvo yes...but not the rest. As the other two pups have now had their second jabs, I fail to see how they are fully covered IF they only had what Harvey did the first time.

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agreed - the info specifically says Parainfluenza is only effective with a single vacc if given after 12wks. i think all the others are ok though - will have had 2 jabs for lepto, 2 for parvo, 1 for distemper and hepatitis after 10wks so it looks like it's just parainfluenza that regime wouldn't cover. maybe vet isn't bothered about that bit?!
 
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right, that's all the info i could find on Canigen. i'm guessing the other pups have had DHPPiL as their 2nd vacc and according to the above as long as they were 12wks old then this would cover them for everything in combination with their first vacc of Parvo/Lepto.

Duramune and the other brands dont have a license to give immunity from a single vacc hence having to have the full course.

Mystery solved.

I dont like waiting till 12wks for the 2nd vacc though as you've then gotta wait another 2wks for them to be fully covered according to the data sheet whereas with Duramune you give the 2nd vacc at 10wks and they can go out a week after that.

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Thanks for all the info Star.

You really made this a very interesting post. Thank you. If this relates just to Canigen, is this why our other dogs (with Duramune) seemed to just have a standard booster every 12 -18 months? The breeder was talking about every three years for boosters too, which I'd not heard of.

I can't find Jasper's old vaccination card anywhere to see what he used to have.
 
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