I know it's been covered . . . Can any horse go barefoot?

Eriskayowner

Eriskayowner

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I wanted to ride Jazz today as it's half term and the weather was half decent - been thinking for a while about possibly going down the BF route with him. However, he's quite good at losing his shoes - especially the fronts. Play was abandoned today as he's lost his front again.

He did have a tripping habit, but he has got LOTS better and doesn't trip at all now he's out more often and is moving soooo much more freely. It was getting to the point that I was losing my nerve just trotting him on the roads but I have actually been able to canter, gallop and jump him over the last few months - on the flat and up hills.

I did briefly mention to my farrier about him going BF but said his feet wouldn't cope. Jazzy's working much more on his hindquarters now (which is helping his tripping thing) but if he's on a long rein then he can get quite "stompy" in front. I don't have free access to an arena (unless I hack to it) so most of his work is on roads or bridlepaths (involving road work to get to). I did do some schooling in the field when the ground would support it - not often over the summer!

I'm just wondering if there's anything stopping any horse going BF? Jazz is 15 years old, 17.2hh and Cleveland Bay x Hanovarian.
 
If you are asking can any horse be in work unshod then I would say no.

If you are asking can your particular horse work unshod, I would say who knows without trying and would you lose anything from trying?
 
It's not safe to generalise.

But if I had a £ for every horse that had been deemed as The One That Can't Go Barefoot, I would be rich :).

It's best to get some pics of the hooves and some info on the diet.
 
badgermyers said:
I would say from experience and my prep for my dissertation..no
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I'm just wondering why you think that would be the case for this particular horse? Breed? Height? Other? *wants a sneaky peak at your research*

My old Farrier was insistent that chestnut mare would never cope without shoes (she's half TB you know :eek:) but as soon as they were off she was fine on most surfaces except really stony stuff. She is doing fabulously and took me for a whirlwind hack yesterday (accelorator stuck on :rolleyes:) around the steep lanes, doing a wonderful, free moving power trot whenever I let her.
 
I think they can.....BUT (and its a big but) some horses will take a lot of work and commitment from their owners to make it work, and it may involve some compromises on the owners part, which quite reasonably not every owner is in the fortunate position to be able to devote, or willing to make compromises on their own activities on occasion in the interests of their horse.

However, I wouldnt take one farriers opinion as being gospel, esp if they are currently paid to shoe the horse and might not be retained if they go barefoot. I also think that a horse that keeps losing shoes would be an ideal candidate to go barefoot with - shoes that wont stay on are more of a pain by far than barefoot/boots.

To a great extent rubbish feet are kept rubbish by shoes, the horse never gets a chance to grow a proper hoof or the blood supply needed to maintain one.
 
I would say yes they can but it's more " if the owners can" and with that I mean the knowledge involved with going bare plus sorting diet and if footy finding out why ( cushings test as one example) would all owners bother? No don't think they would as it's easier to put shoes on than to always get a answer. Not saying that in a bad way but barefoot isn't the easier route if you have a tricky horse but with the right owners feel yes any could
 
Faracat said:
I'm just wondering why you think that would be the case for this particular horse? Breed? Height? Other? *wants a sneaky peak at your research*

My old Farrier was insistent that chestnut mare would never cope without shoes (she's half TB you know :eek:) but as soon as they were off she was fine on most surfaces except really stony stuff. She is doing fabulously and took me for a whirlwind hack yesterday (accelorator stuck on :rolleyes:) around the steep lanes, doing a wonderful, free moving power trot whenever I let her.
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I did a bit of a lazy and just answered the title question. Not saying her horse cant, just the general can all horses bit. I am quite tired today! Check out some papers Sue Dyson has done into lameness in shod and barefoot horses :)
 
I think under optimum conditions, mostly yes. But not everyone can provide optimum conditions, no matter how much they would like to.

This would include feed, turnout, surfaces, trim but also workload. So something that is "struggling" might be OK with a perfect situation, but if your horse is at livery and you have to put up with what is provided and cannot micro-manage and you can only exercise the horse for a short time during the week and then want to lots of miles at the weekend, then it is going to be hard for the horse to adapt. Hoof boots are getting better and better but if you are into showing that might not be suitable.
 
I think they can - not all owners and their funds/circumstances can though.

Get the diet in place first OP - then a farrier who will roll them but not trim frogs/soles. Be prepared to lead out in hand if necessary before adding your weight :)
 
Thanks everyone. I had a feeling that this would be the response. I tried my ponies BF being hardy natives but they really couldn't cope and were very tender on the roads but as soon as I shod them they were well away. I think Jazzy will remain shod but will have to figure out a way of making sure he can keep them on!
 
I think the question is impossible to answer.
Do I think that all horses can be out of work without shoes yes except perhaps the most sick compromised individuals.yes.
If a horse can not be turned away without shoes it has some big problems.
But horses in work I just dont think it's possible to answer the question in my experiance I would expect that I could get a healthly horse working on the flat doing some hacking and some jumping on a surface or on good going yes. I would expect given time to do it properly I could.
However I less sure about horses doing big jobs I am about to send my horse who has been BF the longest hunting we will see how it goes I have upped his work I have been trotting and cantering on forest tracks all ok so far so now I just have to see if he needs two days a week to settle and learn his job will he cope ?
We shall see.
That's the big test in my eyes if he can do that job BF I am sorry I will have fully embraced the dark side.
 
Goldenstar said:
I think the question is impossible to answer.
Do I think that all horses can be out of work without shoes yes except perhaps the most sick compromised individuals.yes.
If a horse can not be turned away without shoes it has some big problems.
But horses in work I just dont think it's possible to answer the question in my experiance I would expect that I could get a healthly horse working on the flat doing some hacking and some jumping on a surface or on good going yes. I would expect given time to do it properly I could.
However I less sure about horses doing big jobs I am about to send my horse who has been BF the longest hunting we will see how it goes I have upped his work I have been trotting and cantering on forest tracks all ok so far so now I just have to see if he needs two days a week to settle and learn his job will he cope ?
We shall see.
That's the big test in my eyes if he can do that job BF I am sorry I will have fully embraced the dark side.
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Fingers crossed for you! I'd much rather have the horses being BF but I don't think the workload and facilities would support it. I'll think of another option!
 
There is no reason that roads cant be a good thing! However you have to be prepared to take the time he may or may not need and not just go 'oh its cos of the roads he cant cope has to have shoes.....'

If roads are an issue then you can boot - and boots last years rather than 6 weeks!
 
How do you *know* they can't all go barefoot?

I don't believe all horses can go bf because its not just about taking shoes off coz he can't keep them on. In this case, keep the shoes on! Unless you want to become a hoof geek, just don't bother.

Even then it's not guaranteed.

But no one actually *knows* if all horses can't go bf. mainly because we have only scratched the surface of horse nutrition, metabolism, Christ, we don't even know much about hooves and those that do are in a very small minority.
 
What about trying them with hoof boots for exercising them? I do think that sometimes it's easy to give up and say "my horse is footie so I'm not going to pursue this any further" when perhaps shoeing isn't the only solution. That said I've just been looking into hoof boots prior to finally taking off the front shoes from one of mine (he wasn't shod on his hinds) and found the range to be baffling as to which may be best for him should he need some.
 
Like others have said, yes, most horses could work (hard) barefoot BUT the conditions (esp grazing and diet) need to be opitimal. Sadly for some horses it can be competely impractical to make the changes nessesary, esp if you have little control over grazing (i.e livery).

Why not try it and see? Do as much research as possible, esp in to diet and grazing, make as many changes as feisable, get some experience help, buy a set of boots and see how you get on. You can always put the shoes back on.

However the fact that even your ponies can't manage barefoot suggests that your set-up (livery?) is far from ideal and will make taking Jazz's shoes off really difficult without some drastic changes.
 
No, they can't all go barefoot. That's why we have boots :D

Seriously, though... when the hooves need protection, give them the protection, when they don't, take the protection off. My horse lives in a field where he is happy to walk, trot, canter, really go for it, handbrake turns, leaping, bucking, motorbikeing... He doesn't need hoof protection for that, and it works his feet nicely :). When we have dry weather, he doesn't need hoof protection when out on the roads either. When we have wet weather, he wears boots.

So, hoof protection needed for e.g. 3 hours so far in the last week. Hoof protection not needed for the remaining 6 days and 21 hours. If he had shoes on, he'd have had unneccesary hoof protection - that stopped his hoof from wearing naturally, flexing and shock absorbing - for all of those 6 days and 21 hours. Seems a no brainer to me (and to every non horsey person I meet... it's only if you're used to the status quo that horses wearing removable hoof protection seems odd!).
 
Brightbay said:
No, they can't all go barefoot. That's why we have boots :D

Seriously, though... when the hooves need protection, give them the protection, when they don't, take the protection off. My horse lives in a field where he is happy to walk, trot, canter, really go for it, handbrake turns, leaping, bucking, motorbikeing... He doesn't need hoof protection for that, and it works his feet nicely :). When we have dry weather, he doesn't need hoof protection when out on the roads either. When we have wet weather, he wears boots.

So, hoof protection needed for e.g. 3 hours so far in the last week. Hoof protection not needed for the remaining 6 days and 21 hours. If he had shoes on, he'd have had unneccesary hoof protection - that stopped his hoof from wearing naturally, flexing and shock absorbing - for all of those 6 days and 21 hours. Seems a no brainer to me (and to every non horsey person I meet... it's only if you're used to the status quo that horses wearing removable hoof protection seems odd!).
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This 100%^^^ (although my TB doesn't even need hoof boots in wet weather :) )
I did use boots for about 3 months when we first went hoofnaked (new word for barefoot!) but then I found when I took the boots off she was fantastic. I've had a couple of weeks of footiness recently - I've still not found the reason, but went out twice at weekend just gone - first ride about 5 miles of roadwork, then Sunday about 3 miles and she was back to her stomping self. So boots are fabulous pieces of kit to have when they are required.
 
tallyho! said:
How do you *know* they can't all go barefoot?

I don't believe all horses can go bf because its not just about taking shoes off coz he can't keep them on. In this case, keep the shoes on! Unless you want to become a hoof geek, just don't bother.

Even then it's not guaranteed.

But no one actually *knows* if all horses can't go bf. mainly because we have only scratched the surface of horse nutrition, metabolism, Christ, we don't even know much about hooves and those that do are in a very small minority.
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I would be 99% certain mine cant. Has a whopping great big crack up one hoof, caused by an injury done years ago. Probably will never heal up properly, although has got "neater" with regular shoeing and hoof dressing. Would I take the shoe off this horse - no way whilst she is in work. If she was ever off work/on box rest, it may be worth a try, however, as she is, she is better with shoes on. It helps to keeo the crack "together", and I would not want the bottom of the crack coming into contact with the ground and chipping away.
 
wench said:
I would be 99% certain mine cant. Has a whopping great big crack up one hoof, caused by an injury done years ago. Probably will never heal up properly, although has got "neater" with regular shoeing and hoof dressing. Would I take the shoe off this horse - no way whilst she is in work. If she was ever off work/on box rest, it may be worth a try, however, as she is, she is better with shoes on. It helps to keeo the crack "together", and I would not want the bottom of the crack coming into contact with the ground and chipping away.
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Is it not possible that keeping her shod is stopping the hoof growing strong enough to repair the crack so you have a self perpetuating situation?
 
wench said:
I would be 99% certain mine cant. Has a whopping great big crack up one hoof, caused by an injury done years ago. Probably will never heal up properly, although has got "neater" with regular shoeing and hoof dressing. Would I take the shoe off this horse - no way whilst she is in work. If she was ever off work/on box rest, it may be worth a try, however, as she is, she is better with shoes on. It helps to keeo the crack "together", and I would not want the bottom of the crack coming into contact with the ground and chipping away.
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Anything like any of these Wench?

This one I was told by a vet and a farrier would need a shoe and clip to hold the foot together. Another chap said to leave the feet alone for 12 weeks and see where I was with only light work. It grew down ;)
IMG_0483.jpg


This hasnt grown down but the mare is now barefoot and fine on roads/gravel - the angle of her heels is much improved and she no longer costs her owners a fortune by losing shoes within 2-3 weeks:)
IMG_0530.jpg
 
If a horse is footy on gravel etc when shoes are off then to me that would say - if I put shoes back on this horse without addressing this, they will LOOK completely sound but I will be completely unable to monitor whether the underlying issues that are causing the footiness ever get any better.

So for me it would say - boot to make the horse comfy when working but keep the shoes off so the underlying dietary or whatever issues can be worked on until horse is no longer footy.

Edited to add - also it makes a big difference the quality and frequency of gentle trimming a horse has - with me with a farrier trim and a farrier you couldnt make appts with and had to beg to come out every 8-9 weeks if that, pony was losing great chunks of hoof and being sore. After three five week apart visits from a lovely proper barefoot trimmer (NHCP) Ive had no hoof loss at all, no soreness stopping me from riding and she is visibly landing heel first in a biiig way :-)))))) it is well worth it.
 
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No... not quite like either. In your pictures, the first hasnt got a damaged coronet band, mine has.

The crack on mine is a "tidy" one, and apart from that the hooves are in very good condition. She may be fine to have them off if she wasnt in work, however, in full work (ie eventing and hunting), she is fine with them on. For that sort of workload, I would also be very loath to take them off - afterall "if it aint broke dont fix it!"
 
wench said:
No... not quite like either. In your pictures, the first hasnt got a damaged coronet band, mine has.

The crack on mine is a "tidy" one, and apart from that the hooves are in very good condition. She may be fine to have them off if she wasnt in work, however, in full work (ie eventing and hunting), she is fine with them on. For that sort of workload, I would also be very loath to take them off - afterall "if it aint broke dont fix it!"
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This is the sort of horse who if sound should stay in shoes and do her job, however one but , that is it is not good for horses to be shod all year round sooner or later that catches up with you so if wenches horse was mine I would be looking for a down time to take off the shoes rest the feet .howver that easy for me to say I have four horses to ride.
In the meantime I would have the horse on a great diet with a good hoof supplement.
 
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