I know lots of you hate parelli, but....

Parelli is about putting the relationship before the task. If you want to learn more or even just see for yourself the theory behind it then join Parelli Connect for a 30 day free trial.
No expense to yourself and you can see for yourself what Pat and Linda are trying to acheive with their methods from the horses mouth so to speak.
I've seen some posts on here and other forums about people smacking horses around and frightening them in the name of Parelli. That's not what I do or anyone else I know and certainly they are not following what Pat teaches in his programme. See for yourself .....

https://secure.parelliconnect.com/

No obligation!
 
Firefly* said:
Parelli is about putting the relationship before the task. If you want to learn more or even just see for yourself the theory behind it then join Parelli Connect for a 30 day free trial.
No expense to yourself and you can see for yourself what Pat and Linda are trying to acheive with their methods from the horses mouth so to speak.
I've seen some posts on here and other forums about people smacking horses around and frightening them in the name of Parelli. That's not what I do or anyone else I know and certainly they are not following what Pat teaches in his programme. See for yourself .....

https://secure.parelliconnect.com/

No obligation!
Click to expand...

The incidents you speak of were committed by the Parelli's, not some wannabe copy cat getting the method wrong but the creator of the method and his wife!!!!
 
I am not a person who believes that Parelli is the only way. In fact, at the moment, I do very little with my horses at all, except take my kids to pony club, and organise the kids ponies for them.

However, I have had a little experience with what is possible my self, and seen what other more committed people have been able to achieve through NH, and it does annoy me that people misunderstand, and misrepresent what it involves and state that it is cruel.

Our local adult riding club encompasses NH as part of the whole of horsemanship, they have disipline heads for dressage, jumping , hacking and NH. Most of the NH followers take part in some if not all the othere disciplines and on NH days, people who have only taken part in dressage for eg may turn up and find out the principles of NH. This is the way it should be, that people are willing to embrace different approaches to same end.
 
to me its just training a horse to react a certain way......

not studying the body language.

i dont do parelli/natural horsemanship. not knocking it but its defiantely not for me.
 
DragonSlayer said:
...I think my horses love whoever is bringing them a carrot at the time....
Click to expand...

they do... but I do not feed my horse, (as others do) he is agisted at another of our properties, so that, the only time he sees me is for work/ exercise etc, and still wants to be with me - so i guess the point is that I am making is that he must enjoy what he is doing, and we must be on the right track
 
Last edited:
jeeve said:
Our local adult riding club encompasses NH as part of the whole of horsemanship, they have disipline heads for dressage, jumping , hacking and NH. Most of the NH followers take part in some if not all the othere disciplines and on NH days, people who have only taken part in dressage for eg may turn up and find out the principles of NH. This is the way it should be, that people are willing to embrace different approaches to same end.
Click to expand...

Well said.

And the video of Leah and Gambit was absolutely lovely.
 
jeeve said:
I could go on but it is ireelevant - the point is that it is possible to create an incredible bond with your horse beyond what most even dream of, and anyone can do it.
Click to expand...

No they can't, and that is mine and I think most people's problem with it. You've obviously got a good relationship with your horse. Great so do I. If you are intelligent and perceptive and you put in some time and effort you can get the same results whatever 'pathway' you choose to follow. All of these people mentioned are probably good horsemen and women the fact that they chose the Parelli route is incidental. MY big issue with Parelli is that it fosters the above impression 'anyone can do it'. Your average novice horse owner cannot develop 'horse sense' but buying a load of dvds. No other training programme as far as I'm aware suggests that having a dvd or a book is a sufficient trainer. It's not OK to tell people do A,B,C, play these games, when you have no idea of the aptitude of the individual. That's why a lot of Parelli ends up as aggressive and traumatising to the horses because the muppet on the end of the carrot stick doesn't have a clue and thinks, because they've seen someone who does understand pressure and release and conditioning training do it, it's OK to wave whips/ropes whatever in a horses face.

Any training programme is only as good as the trainer.

I also agree with what others have said that it isn't passive or non confrontational, both Pat and Linda have been caught doing things that are IMHO horrific, and clearly ineffective since they failed in a very public forum.

If you are into riding at liberty or what ever it's called check out this girl...
http://www.youtube.com/user/Viky1234xx#p/u/3/MyAlRlLeFlA
She's 17. I think younger in the video I've linked.
 
I know diddly squat about the ins and outs of Parelli. What I do know is that I've seen some unpleasant videos featuring Linda Parelli working with horses, which suggest she hasn't got a clue what she's doing. On the other hand, I also know that my friend has used Parelli with her gelding since he was a yearling and he is now one of the sweetest, loveliest, well-mannered horses I've ever met. He's had a go at dressage, XC, SJ, Le Trec and endurance and can be handled by any one. I don't know what that means really...maybe just that it's people who ruin horses, regardless of what methods they use.

This is a quote from the other thread ^^^^^ 100% agree
 
jeeve said:
they do... but I do not feed my horse, (as others do) he is agisted at another of our properties, so that, the only time he sees me is for work/ exercise etc, and still wants to be with me - so i guess the point is that I am making is that he must enjoy what he is doing, and we must be on the right track
Click to expand...

I'm sure you are, and as my horses don't bite, buck me off, rear, and seem happy to do as I would like them to, I'm guessing I can't be far wrong either....
 
ajn1610 said:
No they can't, and that is mine and I think most people's problem with it. You've obviously got a good relationship with your horse. Great so do I. If you are intelligent and perceptive and you put in some time and effort you can get the same results whatever 'pathway' you choose to follow. All of these people mentioned are probably good horsemen and women the fact that they chose the Parelli route is incidental. MY big issue with Parelli is that it fosters the above impression 'anyone can do it'. Your average novice horse owner cannot develop 'horse sense' but buying a load of dvds. No other training programme as far as I'm aware suggests that having a dvd or a book is a sufficient trainer. It's not OK to tell people do A,B,C, play these games, when you have no idea of the aptitude of the individual. That's why a lot of Parelli ends up as aggressive and traumatising to the horses because the muppet on the end of the carrot stick doesn't have a clue and thinks, because they've seen someone who does understand pressure and release and conditioning training do it, it's OK to wave whips/ropes whatever in a horses face.

Any training programme is only as good as the trainer.
Click to expand...

very well put:)
 
Responding to "Parelli is bullying."...

Golf Girl said:
Poppycock!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but it certainly used to be - unless what one person considers to be bullying handling is viewed as, perhaps, merely "assertive" in PNH.

I have in mind Pat Parelli's old trailer loading video, a clip from which used to be at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwYAn4IH918 until it was removed (why?). The video shows a young mare being repeatedly stressed (and hit) with a twirling rope until she eventually enters the trailer. Pat managed to train the behaviours he wanted, but with scant respect for the horse - "do as I tell you and I will stop hitting you" and "if you go there, I will bump you HARD". To my mind, that's bullying.

Would what was shown in that officially released video now be considered unacceptably harsh by Parelli? I would really like to know that! If only they were to come out and say "We admit what happened in that video was really not good, but we strive to learn from our past mistakes." That would be a great start.

If it isn't considered unnecessarily harsh, then what's to stop it being carried on? (Actually, it did carry on if Linda's treatment of Barney is anything to go by. :( )

That said, Pat Parelli is not the roughest I've seen. To my eyes, Clinton Anderson is even rougher and more bullying with horses.
 
Actually I really like Pat. I think he is a great horseman and whether you agree with his methods or not, it does at least seem that he has a very clear understanding of WHY he is doing what he is doing and how to get to where he wants to go. Linda on the other hand (imo) seems to have very little understanding of what she's doing or what she's trying to achieve. Not Parelli bashing but really not keen on Linda!
 
What I don't get is that this video does show great horsemanship and a lovley bond between horse and human.

Why are people so quick to find negatives, why can't you just be pleased for someone. who has obviously masses of love and understanding of the horse.

I have seen horrendous acts of cruelty in dressage, racing, showjumping you name it yet barely anythigng is said BUT...... mention Parelli and people come out in droves to libel and lots of them have no idea what they are talking about.

The ones that I mainly see giving Parelli a bad name are those that pass a stage and suddenly think they are experts when they aren't. These people have not earned any respect of their horses, often get frustrated and take this frustration out on the horse. These are the people that need to see sense and deserve the negatives thrown at them.

However there are many who do have patience, put their horse first and take great care in understanding the horse and never getting frustrated with their horse. well yeah they probably do get frustrated but keep it to themselves and never blame the horse.

This guy has a great relationship with his horse, never used any brute force and certainly does not get harsh in his aids at any time.

I bet there are a lot of people jealous of the relationship he has with his horse.

"Mmmm hope I haven't rattled people with my opinion as that is all it is My opinion"

Cheers

;););)
 
KS1 said:
What I don't get is that this video does show great horsemanship and a lovley bond between horse and human.

Why are people so quick to find negatives, why can't you just be pleased for someone. who has obviously masses of love and understanding of the horse.
Click to expand...
You are right, and I apologize - this isn't the place to debate whether Parelli is (or can be) bullying or not.

While the groundwork shown in the clip isn't my cup of tea, the riding is amazing and I recognize the horse has been trained to a high degree - clearly evident in the end result of training shown here.
 
I don't subscribe to any one school, whether it's NH, BHS, NVQ. I cherry pick the bits from all that make sense to me, that I can practically apply to my horses and that seem to work.

But one thing is for sure - good horsemanship is good horsemanship, no matter whether it's Carl Hester, a NH practitioner or some bloke from up the road who noone takes any notice of. And here I think you see a guy who has clearly worked hard with his horse, who knows his horse well and whose horse knows him well. You don't achieve this in a few sessions of manic join up. This will have taken this guy and his horse a lonnnnnng time, and I only wish more people would SPEND this amount of time with their horses, regardless as to what school they want to follow.

Don't knock passion I say - and the guy clearly has passion for horses and for his particular discipline. I know of sooo many people with horses who could use an ounce of this guy's obvious dedication and passion.

And yes, I myself use a schooling whip so I don't really see that I can object to someone who uses a stick CORRECTLY in the pursuit of NH. I might add that I've seen many a person use and abuse sticks and spurs in the pursuit of high level dressage. Each of these specialities have their abusers.
 
Who ever it was that said you can only get a great bond with your horse through Parelli :mad: To you.

I RESCUED my pony from a parelli home. If I haddn't taken him on he would have ended up going for meat. He was agressive and darn right dangourous. Now i'm not saying Parelli is compleatly to blame for Herbies problems but I think they went along way to help fule his hatred of humans. :(

Here is a couple of vids of the little fella and what we have achieved through non agressive or confrontational methods.

[youtube]itkg_b1V2UM[/youtube]

[youtube]bFxUNgKDCR4[/youtube]

The second video is my favourate. Still brings a tear to my eye. I can't believe how far we have come together already. :)
I personaly don't like Parelli especialy for what it did to poor Herbie and I realy hate it when people say it's the only way.
 
LauraWheeler said:
Who ever it was that said you can only get a great bond with your horse through Parelli :mad: To you.
Click to expand...
Who said that? I never heard anyone say that, ever.

I RESCUED my pony from a parelli home. If I haddn't taken him on he would have ended up going for meat. He was agressive and darn right dangourous. Now i'm not saying Parelli is compleatly to blame for Herbies problems but I think they went along way to help fule his hatred of humans. :(
Click to expand...
With respect, that is a ridiculous statement. PEOPLE made him that way, not Parelli.

Here is a couple of vids of the little fella and what we have achieved through non agressive or confrontational methods

<snip video clips>

The second video is my favourate. Still brings a tear to my eye. I can't believe how far we have come together already. :)
Click to expand...
He's lovely! You obviously have worked hard with him and you have a great bond together. What you are doing with him in the videos is similar to what the 'Parelli' people I know do with their horses :)

I personaly don't like Parelli especialy for what it did to poor Herbie and I realy hate it when people say it's the only way.
Click to expand...
See above. I'd love it if you could get rid of the 'Parelli' chip on your shoulder and just 'be' with your horse and allow other people to do the same and not vilify them just because their stick is orange and yours isn't :)
 
fburton said:
Responding to "Parelli is bullying."...

I'm sorry, but it certainly used to be - unless what one person considers to be bullying handling is viewed as, perhaps, merely "assertive" in PNH.

I have in mind Pat Parelli's old trailer loading video, a clip from which used to be at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwYAn4IH918 until it was removed (why?). The video shows a young mare being repeatedly stressed (and hit) with a twirling rope until she eventually enters the trailer. Pat managed to train the behaviours he wanted, but with scant respect for the horse - "do as I tell you and I will stop hitting you" and "if you go there, I will bump you HARD". To my mind, that's bullying.

Would what was shown in that officially released video now be considered unacceptably harsh by Parelli? I would really like to know that! If only they were to come out and say "We admit what happened in that video was really not good, but we strive to learn from our past mistakes." That would be a great start.

If it isn't considered unnecessarily harsh, then what's to stop it being carried on? (Actually, it did carry on if Linda's treatment of Barney is anything to go by. :( )

That said, Pat Parelli is not the roughest I've seen. To my eyes, Clinton Anderson is even rougher and more bullying with horses.
Click to expand...
So, what you are saying is, because of what Pat Parelli did in a video MANY years ago I, and everyone else who has begun following the Parelli program in recent years, am bullying my horse? I'm sorry but that is just laughable!
 
I think the point is that some people need a 'system' to follow - they need to be told 'what to do next' what gadgets to use etc etc. That is not a criticism I am making just an observation. This is why 'systems' like Slimming World, Weight Watchers etc all work well - people 'subscribe' and follow and do what they are told/is suggested and they get their results. They also get help - they get taught in sizeable chunks and build on these.

Some horsemen/women are just natural - they instinctively know what to do with their horse - they can read their horses moods and stances. But let's face it NOT everyone can and it is to that large audience who want the system and the instruction that the Parellis aim their work and selling. It's easy to sit back amd criticise, but in reality NH does achieve results and yes a system may not be for everyone, but live and let live. Really how different is it from having regular lessons. I know people who have a lesson several times a week!! It wouldn't be for me as I would be asking well when do I actually practice what I have been taught. Can these folk not ride alone?

Frankly Parellt is meeting a needed demand - the only thing is that sometimes the message can get muddied or diluted by the teachers as with any system that grows so big. And no I do not knowingly follow NH.
 
Last edited:
Oh dear, I didn't want to be drawn back into this, but you have asked me a question...

Golf Girl said:
So, what you are saying is, because of what Pat Parelli did in a video MANY years ago I, and everyone else who has begun following the Parelli program in recent years, am bullying my horse? I'm sorry but that is just laughable!
Click to expand...
No, I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that the Parellis may still be teaching people to be unnecessarily rough - yes, even bullying - with their horses because of the examples they themselves set. Not everyone will follow suit, of course. I've seen some very sympathetic handling from some Parelli people - like the Swedish woman who deals with a difficult loader in a YouTube video (I'll see if I can find it again) - but have also seen some that I would describe as bullying, in the last 5 years. So I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush.

That is what I have seen Parelli people do, but there is also what Parelli people say - that they see nothing whatsoever wrong with e.g. the way Linda handled Barney. That's not the distant past - that's what people are saying now. If the followers can't see or admit that certain ways of handling horses are bullying, even if it occurred some time ago, then what's to stop them practising the same sort of handling themselves? (Do you think Linda bullied Barney?)

ETA: It's impossible to know for sure what the training in this video was like just by looking at the end result. I haven't seen the training so can't comment on that.
 
Last edited:
fburton said:
Oh dear, I didn't want to be drawn back into this, but you have asked me a question...


ETA: It's impossible to know for sure what the training in this video was like just by looking at the end result. I haven't seen the training so can't comment on that.
Click to expand...

Fburton - yes, this is what I thought too. On the previos Parelli or not debate, there was a video of this guy and this horse, wiht the horse looking very stressed and anxious and tense.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top