I know lots of you hate parelli, but....

[AmyMay]

It's really time to move on now, don't you think?

Not really. Until Ms P shows an understanding of what the issue with this horse was, regarding her treatment of it - and more importantly can be intelligent enough to learn from it genuinly (not just for PR purposes), then it's important to raise it.

If it helps those interested in the Parelli discipline to better understand the 'concept' and it's inane principles then all areas should continue to be open for discussion.

 

[Golf Girl]

As long as people continue to think that what e.g. Linda did to Barney (to take one high-profile and done-to-death example) was okay / right / justifiable, I will continue to argue against it. I won't convince diehards like yourself, but if what I say makes even a few people think twice, question the Parelli orthodoxy and consider effective alternatives that are quieter and less rough on horses, it will be worth it. If Parelli were to change itself that would be wonderful, because there is so much to commend it in terms of structured learning and global reach.

You are making some big assumptions there. Did I say that I thought what Linda did to Barney was 'okay / right / justifiable'? And Parelli IS changing, it's changing and evolving all the time. Perhaps if the same certain 'few' in this forum were to stop derailing every conversation that even hints at the 'P' word, we could have sensible, constructive discussions that would actually benefit us all

 

[amandap]

If Parelli were to change itself that would be wonderful, because there is so much to commend it in terms of structured learning and global reach.

This is what other theories and thinking need to take on board imo. A theory without a method of implementation is useless to many people. Thinking for yourself is ok when you have a basic knowledge of horses in order to keep safe. Basics have to be learned somewhere and imo this is an area often (imo) missed due to high ideals, or conversely, a rush to achieve. The advertizing etc. is constantly seen by some as a fault and even reviled and mocked but advertizing is how you promote thinking. It's no good writing a book and hoping someone will stumble on it by chance.

Just my view.

 

[team barney]

The problem is Parelli isn't changing. These photo's are from an event after the Catwalk incident...

http://teambarney.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/screen-shot-2011-08-01-at-11-48-08.png

http://teambarney.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/screen-shot-2011-08-01-at-11-49-481.png

They show Pat teaching a horse to back up, using a rope attached to said horse's leg.

 

[amandap]

Those with better or more ethical ways should advertize more, no need to compete just 'get out there' in a bigger way and people will vote with their feet.
You can't change humans thinking overnight but if you feel advertizing in a bigger way is somehow demeaning then prepare for it to take that bit longer... lol
Parelli is only filling a need...

 

[Tinypony]

I rope my horses' legs, but after gradually getting them used to the feel so that it doesn't bother them. Excellent preparation for them getting caught in fences etc. Not sure that's what is going on in those photos though.

Golfgirl, yes, some "derail" all Parelli discussions, but I think a lot of what has been said here has been sensible and constructive. However, it will take a lot of change before some of the people open to rational debate start to support Parelli training.

I'm definitely going to keep on "going on". Recently somebody whose thoughtful approach to horsemanship I really respect said this to me

...."All of this new found discovery, is thanks to you and your stand on a metal snap. You caused me to look deeper into my beliefs, and to really start questioning what actually is 'needed' to get a job done......"

I have to admit, that made me very happy.

 

[team barney]

I rope my horses' legs, but after gradually getting them used to the feel so that it doesn't bother them. Excellent preparation for them getting caught in fences etc. Not sure that's what is going on in those photos though.

It was a wild mustang taming event I believe, so the legs roping wasn't introduced slowly.

Edited to add, it says in Parelli's blurb that Pat is using the rope to teach the horse to back up!!!!!

 

[amandap]

Good for you Tinypony what an achievement.
We should all be mindful that what we write is read by many who never post.

The thing is just constant bashing isn't at all helpful imo. You have to offer some glint of another way and encourage people to think for themselves and support them in the early stages of that. No support leads to frustrated attempts to do stuff that requires a shift in mindset, thinking and beliefs very often and leads to peeps saying... 'I tried that and it didn't work, it's rubbish' or 'I tried that and got attacked by my horse'.

I know constant bashing in amongst the questioning has caused me to loose enthusiasm for horsemanship on more than one occasion... I suspect I'm not alone. Surely we want to be excited and feel supported not constantly told we are cruel. Changing thinking can be painful but does it need to be made more painful by others 'sticking the knife in'?

Mta. By the way, getting your management and feeding right leads to happy, healthy horses with no sore feet or tums and training is so much easier.
*pulls tongue out and winks* lol

 

[Morgan123]

Absolutely - However Amandap and Golfgirl I am not sure of any point at all where there has been any sticking the knife in, or people not having 'sensible, constructive discussions'? In my view we are having a sensible ad constructive discussion, aren't we? It's very interesting. The fact that people are debating your point doesn't mean they aren't being sensible or constructive . If a theory can't stand up to debate and criticism then that says a lot about it!

Amandap, I do also agree though with your sensible comments about it not being helpful to rubbish somehting without sensible ideas for alternatives. But still, nothing wrong with a good old hearty debate!

 

[fburton]

You are making some big assumptions there.

Like what exactly?

Did I say that I thought what Linda did to Barney was 'okay / right / justifiable'?

Well, I did ask you what you thought of it and you didn't reply.

And Parelli IS changing, it's changing and evolving all the time. Perhaps if the same certain 'few' in this forum were to stop derailing every conversation that even hints at the 'P' word, we could have sensible, constructive discussions that would actually benefit us all

I hope you don't count me as one of those 'few' - because I make a point of staying out of threads on any board where Parelli people are discussing get-togethers, events they have enjoyed and other positive stuff (e.g. "Parelli Celebration 2011- Make A Date!"). I also refrained from posting in the following threads from the past year:

Untaught SH mare, shows Parelli just how to do it!!
got very close to mad yesterday 'parelli rant!'
Natural HMS/Parelli/IH... Enlighten me
Parelli Trailer Loading
Pat parelli sends letter of apology regarding catwalk the stallion
Ha ha!! Horse gives the middle finger to Pat Parelli!! tee hee!!
Parelli Lessons?
are you, in reality, a Parelli wielding fluffy bunny?

where I could have commented but didn't.

I'd love to be involved in sensible, constructive discussions about Parelli. So where do you want to start?

 

[amandap]

Morgan123, re "sticking the knife in" I was talking of past experiences actually not this thread. Apologies I should have made that clear. I don't follow Parelli but this applies to many methods.

 

[Morgan123]

Oh I see, wasn't sure if I'd missed something. I absolutely agree, it is really good to debate these things in a calm manner but unhelpful when poeple get personal/upset/rude! Agree it applies to lots of methods too.