I may have done something not entirely reasonable. Help and advice appreciated

Widgeon said:
Yes....I can't speak to dogs with challenging behaviour but as the owner of a terrier, I would say to allow a bit more time than you might with a softer natured breed - keep persevering with the boundaries and consistency, and *eventually* it will pay off. But it can take what feels like a LONG time. That's just terriers for you, though. It doesn't necessarily mean you're doing anything wrong. Oh and fencing....it sounds like you're already well aware that "terrier fenced" and "dog fenced" can be slightly different things!

Very best of luck with him, he sounds like a sweet dog who could have a safe happy life in the right home. You're very kind.
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Thank you. I will try to remember to be patient, with T and with myself, and extend my expected time frame for everything.
 
My personal experience of terriers is that they are all about the fun. You will get the best out of them if you are the centre of their funiverse. If you take yourself and the training too seriously they have a nasty habit of shutting down on you, playing dumb, and then tottering off to find their own amusement.

And I've personally find that an off switch is pretty easy to install alongside the 'fun things' switch (i.e. the contrast is helpful for them).

Good luck, it's a very kind act to take him in.

Oh, and best to go high security with your chickens, a frustrated terrier will absolutely try to murder them.
 
splashgirl45 said:
I’ve got no advice as never dealt with a biter but well done for trying to help this dog out. Not many people would be prepared to do that
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Thank you. As I said, I know and like him which makes a difference and I also have a set up that should be workable. I wouldn't be able to do it if I had kids for example. I also would not be prepared to try for a much larger dog, as I think I would then be in way over my head.
 
DabDab said:
My personal experience of terriers is that they are all about the fun. You will get the best out of them if you are the centre of their funiverse. If you take yourself and the training too seriously they have a nasty habit of shutting down on you, playing dumb, and then tottering off to find their own amusement.

And I've personally find that an off switch is pretty easy to install alongside the 'fun things' switch (i.e. the contrast is helpful for them).

Good luck, it's a very kind act to take him in.

Oh, and best to go high security with your chickens, a frustrated terrier will absolutely try to murder them.
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Good to know, I'll try and keep it fun but in a regulated manner (Sorry T, but it's organised fun for now!).

Yep, chickens will be guarded as in I'm not letting him out of my sight in the garden until he's earned a bit of trust. And even then, I'll have half an eye on him.
 
You're definitely not an idiot. You sound aware about that it's a potential heartache if whatever you do, doesn't get him to a point where it's doable to keep him. Your home, and living situation sounds suitable to give it a try, fingers crossed for that it works. 🤞

You mention gnaw bones, in your shoes I would forget about much variation in the beginning, and just go for quantity. Big quantities. E.g. much better with 100 or more twisted gnaw bones/sticks of the exact same kind left in a pile on the floor for him, than 1 of this, 5 of that, and 3 of another kind. Variation can come later.
If he still tries to resource guard the large pile of bones, or he has gnawed up a lot of them, add even more/refill.
Anders Hallgren's solution is to provide such an abundance that the dog eventually realise that it's not worth/necessary to feel protective about such an abundant resource.

Especially if he's a bit on the chubby side, and you can't just so to say leave a feed bag open for him, to make him think that he can eat whenever, and as much as he likes. Even if he at first manages to chew up several gnaw bones, of empty out a stuffed, frozen Kong in no time, he won't be able to continue chewing up a big pile of bones at the same speed the whole day. In general, if the gnaw bones are of an appropriate size, and gnaw density for the dog, after the first 1, 2 or 10 gnaw bones, even if they might continue to gnaw on other bones, they usually start to slow down, and become less intense at some point.


I suppose that it's all about trying to find that golden mean, which gives him both a bigger amount of physical, and mental exercise, whilst also giving him more calmness, and less stress. The more you can act as if you're relaxed, breathing with deep breaths, talking with a calm voice, and being unbothered by however he behaves, the less he can feed his stress off you.
 
FinnishLapphund said:
You're definitely not an idiot. You sound aware about that it's a potential heartache if whatever you do, doesn't get him to a point where it's doable to keep him. Your home, and living situation sounds suitable to give it a try, fingers crossed for that it works. 🤞

You mention gnaw bones, in your shoes I would forget about much variation in the beginning, and just go for quantity. Big quantities. E.g. much better with 100 or more twisted gnaw bones/sticks of the exact same kind left in a pile on the floor for him, than 1 of this, 5 of that, and 3 of another kind. Variation can come later.
If he still tries to resource guard the large pile of bones, or he has gnawed up a lot of them, add even more/refill.
Anders Hallgren's solution is to provide such an abundance that the dog eventually realise that it's not worth/necessary to feel protective about such an abundant resource.

Especially if he's a bit on the chubby side, and you can't just so to say leave a feed bag open for him, to make him think that he can eat whenever, and as much as he likes. Even if he at first manages to chew up several gnaw bones, of empty out a stuffed, frozen Kong in no time, he won't be able to continue chewing up a big pile of bones at the same speed the whole day. In general, if the gnaw bones are of an appropriate size, and gnaw density for the dog, after the first 1, 2 or 10 gnaw bones, even if they might continue to gnaw on other bones, they usually start to slow down, and become less intense at some point.


I suppose that it's all about trying to find that golden mean, which gives him both a bigger amount of physical, and mental exercise, whilst also giving him more calmness, and less stress. The more you can act as if you're relaxed, breathing with deep breaths, talking with a calm voice, and being unbothered by however he behaves, the less he can feed his stress off you.
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Thank you.

I think just changing his living situation should reduce his stress, once he's settled in. His current home always has lot going on. M likes to have people round to stay on and off all summer. She looks after her son's dog and a friend's dog on and off for weeks. So the household is always changing. She also likes to host meals (often with the nibbles on low down coffee tables!), so guests coming and going in a food laden situation where he's not supposed to eat it. Not ideal for a poorly socialised dog. I do have people round and my parents drop by most weeks, but no where near to the extent he has in his current home. The plan would be for him to have very limited contact with other people for now, though I will have to get him used to Dad who is my back up dog carer. Ideally I would like to train T to go straight from his crate into the garden to do his business when I'm not there and then return straight to his crate for a tasty treat afterwards, other dogs would be let out before or after him (Dad isn't allowed to walk them both at the same time on his own, so he normally just lets them in the garden). Dad would only have to open the door to the garden and the crate door to let him out and close them once T's back in.
 
Titchy Pony said:
Thank you.

I think just changing his living situation should reduce his stress, once he's settled in. His current home always has lot going on. M likes to have people round to stay on and off all summer. She looks after her son's dog and a friend's dog on and off for weeks. So the household is always changing. She also likes to host meals (often with the nibbles on low down coffee tables!), so guests coming and going in a food laden situation where he's not supposed to eat it. Not ideal for a poorly socialised dog. I do have people round and my parents drop by most weeks, but no where near to the extent he has in his current home. The plan would be for him to have very limited contact with other people for now, though I will have to get him used to Dad who is my back up dog carer. Ideally I would like to train T to go straight from his crate into the garden to do his business when I'm not there and then return straight to his crate for a tasty treat afterwards, other dogs would be let out before or after him (Dad isn't allowed to walk them both at the same time on his own, so he normally just lets them in the garden). Dad would only have to open the door to the garden and the crate door to let him out and close them once T's back in.
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When training this, at the start I would have a house line on him or use a slip lead looped over his head (from the side, not the front, in fact I would do very little face on, especially removing any items, as it can be very confrontational to the dog) to physically take him from point A to point B so there's no deviation and not something you have to fix later or play chasies then risk him getting lairy.
The other option is to have the crate very close to the door and/or use a chicane.
I'd be training in this way anyway. He's had a lot of freedom and been allowed to make a lot of choices and that's not always good for dogs.
Sometimes they are much more comfortable (like kids!) when we make the decision of where they go and when, and what they do.
It's not negative training, it can still be fun, it's just clear and at the moment he's in beigeland.

You probably know this already but you could spend weeks just getting him to see that popping his face in a muzzle is a very positive thing, with a mat place matt and a muzzle, before closing the straps.

He'll maybe be quite defensive around the head and neck.
 
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Titchy Pony said:
Good to know, I'll try and keep it fun but in a regulated manner (Sorry T, but it's organised fun for now!).

Yep, chickens will be guarded as in I'm not letting him out of my sight in the garden until he's earned a bit of trust. And even then, I'll have half an eye on him.
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Oh yes, definitely organised fun! It's more about the vibes if that makes sense...they just seem to respond a lot better to a structured but quite jolly hockey sticks type approach, than they do to a slightly more serious deliver command-wait for response-issue confirmation and reward type approach. If that makes any sense 😂. Generally when I have been thinking that a terrier has been being an untrainable twonk it is because I have accidentally gone all serious on them.
 
I remembered this post about my dog. I don't know if anything in it will be helpful to you, TP.

She was suffering from kennel stress when I first saw her in rescue, spinning and tail chasing.

At the Dogs Trust she was housed with a large dog so may have had to try and protect her food and that may have been the cause of resource guarding. Also some people think that they should stick their hand in the dog's bowl or remove it from the dog when it's eating, I don't know if one of the previous owners did that but I think it's a recipe for creating a resource guarder.

Initially when I brought her home she self expressed her anal glands if she felt stressed but thankfully she soon felt safe and that behaviour ceased.

skinnydipper

Post in thread 'Is it just me…'

One of the dogs I adopted was a food resource guarder at the time of adoption. I have mentioned her before, this was her 5th home due to various problems.

She was guarding because she was anxious around food, too worried to eat, afraid it would be taken from her by person or other dog? - who knows.

Trying to remove her food would have tipped her completely over the edge.

She learned to relax around food because
a) I didn't take it from her once I had given it to her
b) no dog allowed to bother another when eating.

I do play the leave it/ take it game with treats. Reward by allowing...
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Cinnamontoast said:
I wonder if the crevette needs a ‘job’? Is he bored/over stimulated in the wrong way? I don’t think you’re (completely) folle, but I think this is a long haul job. Well done, tho, for taking him. I hope your two show him the way.
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He's definitely over stimulated in the wrong way and busy creating his own entertainment.
My two will probably show him all my weaknesses and I'll have 3 dogs running loops round me 😄.
 
druid said:
Nah, once Mannies have had actual rats they have disdain for the squeaky toy!
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I was thinking the other day (bear with me, my mind is odd), what positions would the terrier breeds play if they were all playing rugby together. I haven't got my full team worked out yet, but there's a staffie as prop, jrt as wingers, an Irish on centre, Airedale on scrum half, ebt as flanker, westie or Scottie as the shouty coach on the sideline, and I feel like the ref would be a Mannie.

Dandie dinmonts are on water duty.
 
DabDab said:
I was thinking the other day (bear with me, my mind is odd), what positions would the terrier breeds play if they were all playing rugby together. I haven't got my full team worked out yet, but there's a staffie as prop, jrt as wingers, an Irish on centre, Airedale on scrum half, ebt as flanker, westie or Scottie as the shouty coach on the sideline, and I feel like the ref would be a Mannie.

Dandie dinmonts are on water duty.
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Another nutter! It’s quite normal conversation in our house, usually more about our dogs. 😆
 
DabDab said:
I was thinking the other day (bear with me, my mind is odd), what positions would the terrier breeds play if they were all playing rugby together. I haven't got my full team worked out yet, but there's a staffie as prop, jrt as wingers, an Irish on centre, Airedale on scrum half, ebt as flanker, westie or Scottie as the shouty coach on the sideline, and I feel like the ref would be a Mannie.

Dandie dinmonts are on water duty.
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I'm afraid I don't know enough about rugby to fully appreciate this post and I also had to look up a few terrier breeds, but I like your train of thought! I'm not sure if total randomness keeps the crazy at bay or simply is a sign of it, but all the best people engage in it from time to time.
 
Thank you for giving the little guy a chance. Really hope it all works out. I love terriers and sounds to me like you’ve got most bases covered now. Some nice calm exercise and foraging for kibble on the lawn helps settle my loony Lurcher.
 
DabDab said:
I was thinking the other day (bear with me, my mind is odd), what positions would the terrier breeds play if they were all playing rugby together. I haven't got my full team worked out yet, but there's a staffie as prop, jrt as wingers, an Irish on centre, Airedale on scrum half, ebt as flanker, westie or Scottie as the shouty coach on the sideline, and I feel like the ref would be a Mannie.

Dandie dinmonts are on water duty.
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My Yorkies have all been very rule abiding. But *creatively,* so I vote them for Ref.

More seriously; the terriers I’ve known have all had very little patience for ‘trick’ training - sit, stay, recall and sometimes a lie and hopefully a leave command have been possible. But anything else and they just don’t seem to see the point.

100% agree that fun is the way to go with them.

My terriers have all been very thankful to have a quiet place so you might find once he has the opportunity to chill out and be safe that he doesn’t need any real training to do that.

Have also had a conversation with a dog trainer (jokingly!!) who said that a half trained terrier was the same as a fully trained proper dog. Certainly mine is the best terrier we’ve met 🤣
 
Clodagh said:
Another nutter! It’s quite normal conversation in our house, usually more about our dogs. 😆
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Happens around here too. My sister declared my monster her totem spirit animal based on one of his favourite activities:20200506_092017.jpg

So I declared that Liberty must be mine based on two of her favourite activities (old photos):3E0A9667.jpg3E0A9704.jpg
 
Clodagh said:
At rugby I’d support the terriers, labs are far too rule abiding. Terriers would hope the ref missed the high tackles, the bollock squishing, the going in from the side.
Labs would fess up 🤣
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Oh absolutely.

Occasionally when playing my terrier takes the Kelpie out at the legs and then body slams his head, so 😬
 
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