I may have done something not entirely reasonable. Help and advice appreciated

I would heartily second the advice given above re. having a skilled trainer/behaviourist to assist; but make sure it is someone who works on the "reward the behaviour you want" rather than someone who is perhaps a bit more of the Barbara Woodhouse (sterner) mindset. This little dog sounds like he is thoroughly mixed-up and confused, and has obviously received mixed messages up till now, so the support of a good behaviourist is what I would strongly recommend.

Please note I am no expert: so please bear this in mind with what I am about to say - but with my little dachshund (hyper-active, but doesn't bite) I take him to a regular training class, and we've found that scent-work is something which has been hugely beneficial to him. It's fun (or should be), engages him, and it gives him a "dopamine" thrill (my trainer's way of explaining it) which is excellent for settling him. I throw this into the mix as it might be something you could utilise. He also enjoys agility - again something that gives a dog external stimulus, activity, and fulfilment.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
I would heartily second the advice given above re. having a skilled trainer/behaviourist to assist; but make sure it is someone who works on the "reward the behaviour you want" rather than someone who is perhaps a bit more of the Barbara Woodhouse (sterner) mindset. This little dog sounds like he is thoroughly mixed-up and confused, and has obviously received mixed messages up till now, so the support of a good behaviourist is what I would strongly recommend.

Please note I am no expert: so please bear this in mind with what I am about to say - but with my little dachshund (hyper-active, but doesn't bite) I take him to a regular training class, and we've found that scent-work is something which has been hugely beneficial to him. It's fun (or should be), engages him, and it gives him a "dopamine" thrill (my trainer's way of explaining it) which is excellent for settling him. I throw this into the mix as it might be something you could utilise. He also enjoys agility - again something that gives a dog external stimulus, activity, and fulfilment.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your advice. Skilled behaviourists are few and far between around here, the one I used for Monster never returned from maternity leave.

I am using an online course designed specifically for reactive / excited / nervous dogs by someone who is very experienced with such dogs, uses positive reinforcement only and has had great results with her students. I was a researcher in animal behaviour, so have a good deal of the theory covered and I'm also a volunteer dog trainer at the dog club (I know this doesn't necessarily mean much) where I can ask for advice from more experienced dog trainers.

T's not quite ready for organised activities yet. He joined his first dog class with me last week and will be going again after the new year. He needs to be settled in his environment and confident in me first so that activities benefit rather than overwhelm him. He loves a good game of tug and a rabbit ear to chew at home though.
 
As I put the horses' ones over on Pippin's thread, I felt it was only fair to share the pro pictures of the dogs on here. When the photos were taken, T hadn't been with me long, so none of all three together, which I think might just be possible these days. Last night while I was watching LIHS, I opened up the baby gate between the lounge and the kitchen, which is the first time I've had all three dogs with access to the same space in the house since T arrived. I'm not sure Monster even realised the gate was open as he didn't move from the sofa. T stuck to the dog bed in front of the Rayburn in the kitchen. But Liberty had a wander, disappeared into the library, came back, had a quick sniff at T (T didn't look overly confident, but didn't react and Liberty came away straight afterwards) and then settled again in the lounge. I'm hoping eventually all three will be happy to spend the evening with me in the lounge.

Here's the little terror
IMG_0603(s).jpg

And his bigger housemates with the goofy ears.
IMG_0290(s).jpg
 
I'm very sad to say that my time with T is coming to an end.

His owner sent me a message three weeks ago basically saying "my life is shit, I need T by my side". This came out of the blue for me as we has discussed earlier that returning to his owners' was likely to make T regress to his previous behavioural patterns (i.e. biting people) and I was going to discuss M signing him over to me when she returned from her winter home. I responded asking her to consider carefully as T wasn't making her life any less shitty in August when she was considering PTS on behavioural ground, I also told her that it would be a definite choice as I will not have T back again, it isn't fair on him or me.
Well she reconsidered for over three weeks, taking the time to go on a foreign holiday ("I desperately need my dog in my life, but not until after my holidays" - sorry, I may be a tad bitter) and answered me tonight to say she wants him back. She says she will do her best to follow my instructions for him. She also says she knows she is not following the voice of reason, but the one telling her to avoid more suffering for herself. I'm finding this attitude rather selfish as T will pay the price if she changes her mind later on. I also think that they are simply not compatible: a highly sociable and occasionally emotionally volatile older lady who enjoys entertaining and having friends to stay and a small, reactive, poorly socialised dog who finds visitors extremely stressful.

I have already cried into T's fur and started writing his "instruction manual". M is back on Saturday evening and we will discuss returning T on Sunday. He will be gone sometime next week, as I see no reason to prolong the misery.

I really hope M can follow my instructions and give T the best of lives, I will be watching from the sidelines and praying not to have to recount their goings on in the irresponsible owners thread.
 
It doesn’t sound as if she has thought this through properly and clearly has a short memory!
I personally think she’s being very selfish and I’d be saying that he’s more settled and that it wouldn’t be fair on him to move again
Did you originally take him on because he was going to be pts and offer him a home or did you agree to retrain him and give him back?
If the former I’d just refuse to hand him over
 
Gutted for you. I really hope she changes her ways and/or her mind. Could you lie and tell her he's still a horror. It just feels like you've rehabbed her dog for free and now she gets him back because she things he's 'better'.
If this was a board and train you could be charging her thousands for your time and work. In fact, in your position, I might.
 
deicinmerlyn said:
It doesn’t sound as if she has thought this through properly and clearly has a short memory!
I personally think she’s being very selfish and I’d be saying that he’s more settled and that it wouldn’t be fair on him to move again
Did you originally take him on because he was going to be pts and offer him a home or did you agree to retrain him and give him back?
If the former I’d just refuse to hand him over
Click to expand...
No, I don't think she's thought this through beyond her emotional want for something small and fluffy to cuddle. I find it very sad, because she could offer a good loving home to a different dog, one that would be better suited to her life.

I originally took him on in September to offer her some relief and to see what I could do. We talked again in October and I said I didn't think returning to her would be in his best interests and he would most likely revert to previous behaviours. She agreed with me. I also said that I couldn't officially take him on at that point because I basically couldn't afford another dog, but could we re-discuss in January after I had hopefully had a pay rise (which I have had). I wish she had told me then that she was always planning on having him back (which is what she's said in her message to me) rather than agreeing with me that going to her wouldn't be the best thing for him. I would have managed my expectations differently.

I can't refuse to hand him over because he still belongs to M. I have however learnt my lesson and if I ever do anything similar again (not for M!), l will ask for a 1 month trial period, possibly renewed once and then demand the dog be signed over to me or return it. I have contemplated fostering for charity, but I don't think my heart could take it, nor do I think it will do my own dogs much good having a succession of dogs come and go through the house (this is very much down to their own temperaments, I'm not saying some dogs wouldn't thrive on it).
 
CorvusCorax said:
Gutted for you. I really hope she changes her ways and/or her mind. Could you lie and tell her he's still a horror. It just feels like you've rehabbed her dog for free and now she gets him back because she things he's 'better'.
If this was a board and train you could be charging her thousands for your time and work. In fact, in your position, I might.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

I don't think she will change her mind, she's too wrapped up in her own misery due to some family matters. I have warned her that he is not "better", that he will require careful management for the rest of his life. I do hope she will change her ways, and her husband as well (he means well, but can be less than delicate in some handling and tends to take the head on approach to some things that could have been easily avoided with a bit of forward planning). I am however worried as it will require adjustments to life style and way of being.

I think a lot of T's improvement is down to change in environment to a low stress household (despite my two rather excitable dogs). He always has his own space if he needs it and I will separate the dogs if one of them starts to get too interfering. I have taught him that he can be calm and that he can move away from things / other dogs that are making him uneasy. I have also taught him that I will always come back (he had trouble being alone when he arrived) and that I've always got his back. I'm sad because he's going to find out that the last two aren't true now. I just hope he will be a happy, healthy dog.
 
My friend is a very competent trainer and six weeks' residential *starts* at over £4000. I'd certainly be expecting something for feeding/looking after someone else's dog for that amount of time when it appears that they couldn't be arsed and are now happy to take him back now you've done so much work on him.
(even if to make her reconsider/stop her from pulling this crap again/with someone else).

I suppose the best thing to do in this situation is to get everything in writing, but you weren't to know how it was going to pan out.
 
CorvusCorax said:
My friend is a very competent trainer and six weeks' residential *starts* at over £4000. I'd certainly be expecting something for feeding/looking after someone else's dog for that amount of time when it appears that they couldn't be arsed and are now happy to take him back now you've done so much work on him.
(even if to make her reconsider/stop her from pulling this crap again/with someone else).

I suppose the best thing to do in this situation is to get everything in writing, but you weren't to know how it was going to pan out.
Click to expand...
It's a lot of money, but I'm not surprised at the cost as it's also a lot of effort having an extra dog in your home 24/7. Unlike your friend, I'm not a very competent trainer, just a keen amateur trying to help out a dog I've always liked anyway. M has paid for T's expenses, so I'm not out of pocket.

Yep, definitely a lesson learned on that one. I will get everything in writing if ever in this position again. Very different from my previous experience of rehoming Monster, neither he nor the previous owner ever looked back on that one. I also don't want to fall out with anyone as the village and my circle of friends that includes M is small.
 
misst said:
I am so sorry sorry for you and T. Its so unfair. Can she not just get another dog. She is so obviously not truly attached to him. Have a virtual hug for both of you xxx
Click to expand...
Thank you.

I do also think that a different, more suitable dog may be the answer for all of us. I will try to bring it up, but I'm not sure if she's in a listening to reason frame of mind.
 
Titchy Pony said:
Thank you.

I do also think that a different, more suitable dog may be the answer for all of us. I will try to bring it up, but I'm not sure if she's in a listening to reason frame of mind.
Click to expand...
She’d have to pay for a new one, she has a free one to hand.
I’m so sorry. I hope it all works out so you don’t end up in a revolving door situation.
 
This is just stuff out of a bull's bottom. I feel for you.

I have been given 3 dogs over the years. Non of the previous owners wanted any more to do with them!

If she couldn't jell with the dog first time round, why does she expect to now? As you say, still same dog, same owner and circumstances. Why would it work this time☹️

She would almost certainly be much happier with a different (and probably breed) dog more suited to a sedentary "Tricky Woo" type lifestyle.

Anyway, hoping for the best outcome for you and dog. Stuff her!
 
Clodagh said:
She’d have to pay for a new one, she has a free one to hand.
I’m so sorry. I hope it all works out so you don’t end up in a revolving door situation.
Click to expand...
I have said that if she takes T back, he can't come back to me afterwards. I hope I'm strong enough to stick to that. A revolving door situation won't be good for T or me.
 
Smitty said:
This is just stuff out of a bull's bottom. I feel for you.

I have been given 3 dogs over the years. Non of the previous owners wanted any more to do with them!

If she couldn't jell with the dog first time round, why does she expect to now? As you say, still same dog, same owner and circumstances. Why would it work this time☹️
Click to expand...
The power of love?
Smitty said:
She would almost certainly be much happier with a different (and probably breed) dog more suited to a sedentary "Tricky Woo" type lifestyle.

Anyway, hoping for the best outcome for you and dog. Stuff her!
Click to expand...
She has had elderly JRTs in the past. One was a placid little thing and suited her down to the ground. The other took me explaining common dog sense to avoid everyone getting their fingers bitten (don't prod the sleeping dog!). Unfortunately, she's a hoarder of both things and animals and picks up free rescues "to save them" without thinking the consequences through.
 
Well little T has been returned to his owner... I walked him round to have a last walk with him. I told him I loved him and that I hoped he would be happy, then made a hasty exit and cried all the way to my parent's (just down the road).
His owner did comment on how good he looked weight wise and how good he was with my other two dogs brushing past him or running towards him, with T not reacting. I'm like, well I did actually do something in the six months he's been with me... Also a bugbear of mine, if you knew your dog was overweight, why didn't you do anything about it?! It's not like you don't have full control over what they eat!

I'm so proud of that little dog and myself and what we managed together: he went from 10,5kg to 7.9kg, looking a lot healthier and fitter for it. He learned to not react to normal dog behaviours in my two and managed to join group classes at dog club without barking the place down and even ignoring some rather bouncy large puppies. He learnt that I wouldn't leave him in a situation that he found uncomfortable and that we would happily retreat from such situations or if necessary, he could rise above it all in my arms. We didn't quite finish training to visitors, but he was getting comfortable with familiar ones, such as my parents and even my parents were getting attached to him. Mum would happily walk him, though she physically can't walk the larger dogs. I'm just sorry we didn't get to see how far we could go and reach the full potential of calm, happy little dog.

I would like to share a proud moment of last week, when I didn't shut a door fast enough and T got out with my chickens. He didn't murder them, he raced right though the middle of the flock once and came straight back to recall. He was of course highly praised and rewarded with a large amount of beef lung crumbs.

Goodbye, Little T, live well.
 
Poor T and poor you. What a very selfish ‘owner’ M is and unfortunately she doesn’t sound like she will make environment changes to suit T but I hope he copes and is able to have a safe space where he can retreat to when she has visitors etc. You did a remarkable thing taking on a dog with known issues and making a big change to his life that hopefully will put him in good stead for the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top