i need advice please? Got myself into a sticky situation!

Sounds to me as if the owner either hasn't actually asked the insurance company, or maybe has used one of the cheaper companies?

I would have said that if the loan agreement state that the insurance is to be paid and sorted by the owner - which is actually not unusual or unreasonable as it is the owner who would benefit if there was a claim on the horse's value because of a fatal incident, for example, not the loaner - then I would think that the loaner should pay the excess and the owner should be liable for the rest of the bill.

If they agree to go through the claims procedure and the insurance company refuses to pay (unlikely from what I have read), then perhaps the owner and the loaner ought to split the bill after the loaner pays the excess.

I think a chat with the owner regarding insurance is in order. Even if the owner organises the insurance and it is in their name I would expect the loaner to have a copy of the policy details and to have authority on the policy so that they can contact the insurer in the case of an emergency. This is how I have set it up with horses that I have loaned and those that I have loaned out. The loaner could pay the premium directly to the owner - again, this is how I have always arranged it, and it seems to work very well.

I also have to say that I agree with everyone else - I would suspect that the clipping caused an allergic reaction which then became infected. I doubt very much that the vet has said that the infection was directly caused by the clipping - how could he/she possibly know? Anyway - insurance should cover it regardless.

Your friend should have professional indemnity insurance if she's providing a service to people for money. She should also register as self-employed, declare all her earnings and pay tax and NI. You could report her I suppose if she isn't doing all of this - how much do you value her friendship, and that of your wider circle of, presumably, mutual friends?
 
Bedlam said:
Sounds to me as if the owner either hasn't actually asked the insurance company, or maybe has used one of the cheaper companies?

I would have said that if the loan agreement state that the insurance is to be paid and sorted by the owner - which is actually not unusual or unreasonable as it is the owner who would benefit if there was a claim on the horse's value because of a fatal incident, for example, not the loaner - then I would think that the loaner should pay the excess and the owner should be liable for the rest of the bill.

If they agree to go through the claims procedure and the insurance company refuses to pay (unlikely from what I have read), then perhaps the owner and the loaner ought to split the bill after the loaner pays the excess.

I think a chat with the owner regarding insurance is in order. Even if the owner organises the insurance and it is in their name I would expect the loaner to have a copy of the policy details and to have authority on the policy so that they can contact the insurer in the case of an emergency. This is how I have set it up with horses that I have loaned and those that I have loaned out. The loaner could pay the premium directly to the owner - again, this is how I have always arranged it, and it seems to work very well.

I also have to say that I agree with everyone else - I would suspect that the clipping caused an allergic reaction which then became infected. I doubt very much that the vet has said that the infection was directly caused by the clipping - how could he/she possibly know? Anyway - insurance should cover it regardless.

Your friend should have professional indemnity insurance if she's providing a service to people for money. She should also register as self-employed, declare all her earnings and pay tax and NI. You could report her I suppose if she isn't doing all of this - how much do you value her friendship, and that of your wider circle of, presumably, mutual friends?
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Yeah I am now doubting she has asked or whether the pony is actually insured.

The owner wrote up the loan agreement (obviously) so surely she was happy to pay the insurance for the horse then :/ If circumstances changed, she could have just told me and we would have happily paid, rather than be in this mess with no compensation from insurance. I don't mind paying the bill in instalments, it's fine, but having some money off of it would have been nice!

I think what I'm going to do is just pay this bill and then suggest to the owner that as we've fully loaned the horse for a long time, maybe we should pay the insurance for her.

The vet just said to me it was an infection as it was spreading up her body... I know it sounds bad but I was so distraught with her having these horrible open sores all over her sides the vets bill or getting all the information at the time from the vet didn't really cross my mind, I was just wanting my mare to get better. He said it was caused by the clipping as we went through some things in quite a bit of detail and ruled out pretty much every other cause possible at the time.

She is more of a one off friend, meaning she is not in my circle of friends. I have known her a long time, but we only became good friends again about 3 years ago. Her parents are distant family friends, it would only cause a lot of upset so Im not going to risk it and cause a load of hassle.
 
Hi Jade. You have been given some good advice here and seemed to have made the right decision. What really irks me on here how earlier posters jump to conclusions about whether you can afford a horse or not without hearing the whole story. Hope your mare makes a speedy recovery. I also have a Cassie
 
Treatment with steroids would suggest to me that the vet was treating for an allergic reaction which then caused an infection.
 
Baileyhoss said:
To be fair. As an owner, i wouldn't claim for a small vets bill like that. I would still be charged the excess and for the sake of another 200 quid or so, you could potentially have an exclusion slapped on any future skin problem and they'll whack up the premium going forward, so I personally would not agree to make an insurance claim in this case. I might as an owner have stumped up half the cost though.

I also clip my own and friends for favours and I have never disinfected blades between horses, just cleaned them. And I certainly wouldn't think to unless i suspected something like ringworm.

However if I was to be accused of causing a reaction or infection on a horse I had been asked to clip and had moans about vets bills cast in my direction, I would certainly NOT be offering that favour again, regardless of whether I was paid for it or not.

Clipping takes ages, is a manky job and equipment is expensive, you need to consider blades & oil as overheads. Just because you have paid, doesn't mean it's not a favour. (you wouldn't ask a favour of transport and not offer someone fuel money would you)
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If you do not claim off the insurance it will still be excluded because you have called out a vet and it goes on the horses history, which the insurance companies now ask for with every claim you make.
 
I'm am just glad I am not your friend :rolleyes: you asked her to clip and she helped you out!

I cannot see that you would even think of blaming your friend for doing you a favour ... this is a sign of these times that you would blame 'a friend' for doing something that you asked, perhaps you should have cleaned the clippers first - or even better - done the job yourself!
 
Lollii said:
I'm am just glad I am not your friend :rolleyes: you asked her to clip and she helped you out!

I cannot see that you would even think of blaming your friend for doing you a favour ... this is a sign of these times that you would blame 'a friend' for doing something that you asked, perhaps you should have cleaned the clippers first - or even better - done the job yourself!
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Miaow! Perhaps Y0U should read ALL the posts!
 
Lollii said:
I'm am just glad I am not your friend :rolleyes: you asked her to clip and she helped you out!

I cannot see that you would even think of blaming your friend for doing you a favour ... this is a sign of these times that you would blame 'a friend' for doing something that you asked, perhaps you should have cleaned the clippers first - or even better - done the job yourself!
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Yes agree with jaysh (thank you) maybe YOU should have read all the posts rather than jumping to a conclusion. I was paying for the clip as a service, was not just a favour. Before you start being so bitchy, please get your facts straight.
 
KrujaaLass said:
Hi Jade. You have been given some good advice here and seemed to have made the right decision. What really irks me on here how earlier posters jump to conclusions about whether you can afford a horse or not without hearing the whole story. Hope your mare makes a speedy recovery. I also have a Cassie
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Thank you very much :) well I hope the ones who posted earlier may have read the other things and understand a bit better now!
 
I haven't read all the replies but have the general gist.

What is not adding up to me at all is the situation with the insurance company.

Now you say this horse had this reaction/infection 5 weeks after being clipped.

Firstly, how do you know its even related to being clipped, and secondly if a reaction doesn't occur until 5 weeks later, the insurance company would definitely not refuse to pay, how the hell can you forsee an allergic reaction 5 weeks down the line?

I think you will find the owner doesn't have insurance, and that is the real issue.

I can see no logical or legal reason why they wouldn't pay out, insurance companies often dont know the source of a reaction or infection, or how an injury happend, because the owners cannot say for certain, but the horse still needs vetinary care and therefore pay out.
 
missyme10 said:
I haven't read all the replies but have the general gist.

What is not adding up to me at all is the situation with the insurance company.

Now you say this horse had this reaction/infection 5 weeks after being clipped.

Firstly, how do you know its even related to being clipped, and secondly if a reaction doesn't occur until 5 weeks later, the insurance company would definitely not refuse to pay, how the hell can you forsee an allergic reaction 5 weeks down the line?

I think you will find the owner doesn't have insurance, and that is the real issue.

I can see no logical or legal reason why they wouldn't pay out, insurance companies often dont know the source of a reaction or infection, or how an injury happend, because the owners cannot say for certain, but the horse still needs vetinary care and therefore pay out.
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No sorry if I didn't make it very clear :) she got the infection about 48 hours after being clipped. But what I meant is that it was 5 weeks ago she was clipped!

Personally now I don't think she has insurance but was led to believe she does.
 
jadelovescassie said:
No sorry if I didn't make it very clear :) she got the infection about 48 hours after being clipped. But what I meant is that it was 5 weeks ago she was clipped!

Personally now I don't think she has insurance but was led to believe she does.
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Oh ok, well definitely sounds clip related.
Regardless of infection or allergic reaction, the insurance would have paid out as you sought vetinary advice quickly. Your horses owner doesn't have insurance for sure.

I'd definitely get this sorted out asap.
I suspect they wont be able to show you the policy as it doesn't exist!

Its a tricky one really, a lot of owners insist on having the insurance policy themselves so they know for certain that the horse is adequately insured, the loaner may often pay the monthly cost direct to the owner.
I think this is perfectly understandable, but you appear to be in the reverse situation!!

I'd be asking the owner if you could sit down and take a look at the policy together as there is obviously an issue with it, that you aren't happy with an inadequate policy that doesn't cover you when you most need it, and ultimately it is you who is going to get landed with a huge vet bill. If she doesn't see this point, I would be suggesting she takes the risk on the vet bills, and I bet she very quickly sees it then!!
If the policy doesn't exist, it will probably be enough to tactfully kick her up the rear to get one x
 
jadelovescassie said:
Thank you, I do now think I have been led to believe she is insured when she may not be. I probably wouldn't be in this mess if she was, like you said. I'm a bit worried about approaching her owner about it though as I get on well with her (though I've only met her face to face two/three times) and wouldn't want to upset her and risk having the pony taken off of me.
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Is it possible the owner only has her insured for 3rd party damage/theft and or accidents and doesn't have vets fees for illness covered?

How old is the pony as this sort of cover is highly likely if the pony is a veteran (anything over 17yrs old).
 
piebaldsparkle said:
Is it possible the owner only has her insured for 3rd party damage/theft and or accidents and doesn't have vets fees for illness covered?

How old is the pony as this sort of cover is highly likely if the pony is a veteran (anything over 17yrs old).
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Well when I asked the owner about them she said she would call them, apparently phoned them up and they said they wouldn't pay because of timings of it. I'm really not sure what her owner meant but she could have just made this up I guess, I don't know.

The pony is only 14 so not a veteran quite yet :)
 
Well then I would politely ask the owner what exactly the 'timing thing' was as if a similar thing happens, you want to be sure you are covered. Could be a good time to ask what the excess is too? Surely she will understand that you just have the ponies best interests in mind. :)
 
Sounds to me like:
1) it was an allergic reaction (an infection would have entered at one cut site, pussed up etc as usual and only affected a small part of the body. An infection cannot enter through uncut skin, other than ringworm which this wasn't by description and treatment).
2) If the horse is insured for vets fees, and what the owners say about 'timing' is correct, then this is more than a year after a similar claim - which would support the 'allergy' hypothesis.
 
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