I need everyone's advice... (Sorry, long one!)

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Michelle73

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I'm in a really awkward situation and I want to your advice, here goes trying to explain. Right, I look after two horses for their owner. He pays for field rent, feet trimming, worming and hay. It usually takes me a while to get the money out of him but he does pay up in the end. Luckily, he doesn't interfere but he doesn't help with anything physical either. I'm currently working three jobs to pay for the remainder of the expenses and have sub-loaned the mare which the owner is aware of. He's been saying for the last 2 years that he wants to put the mare in foal but never done it. Quite frankly I'm dead against this idea - the mare has arthritis - there's no stable for her to foal down in - he doesn't know anything about rearing a foal and he only had that last foal as he bought the mare but didn't realise she was in foal. I think he wants to use AI, I've never done this before used to breed Welsh Cobs and either covered in hand or let my stallion run with the mares (stopped breeding in 1990/91). I just think this is breeding for the sake of it, the mare isn't registered, she's 14.1hh and he wants to put her in foal to something 16.2hh!!!!!!
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He thinks he knows best and is not the sort of person you can reason with. I don't want the responsibilty of an infoal mare and foal once its born, but can't walk away because I'm completely in love with the gelding and I've brought him such a long way in his training - together we are one!!!
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So how do I deal with this situation without rocking the boat? I feel like he's completely got me over a barrel becaue of how I feel about the gelding - the people who have sub-loaned the mare are paying for her arthritis treatment but the owner will not accept that it is arthritis - what would he know he never sees the horses!!!!! It just makes me want to flip my lid and screem and shout. But I can't because what if he sells the gelding? Can you advise me as to whats invovled with AI, expenses, how its done, and remember this man won't pay for vets, he doesn't vaccinate, he didn't worm regularly until I came along!!! I just need to win the lottery so that I can pay for the gelding and get out of there but thats not realistic. The sub-loaners have said they will walk away if he puts her in foal. I just think that as we are paying towards the horses keep then we should have a say too. But there's no formal agreements set up and I'm never going to get a formal agreement. When I told him yesterday that I spend £75 per month plus on the gelding he couldn't udnerstands where the money had gone!!! Hello, hard feed, garlic, rugs, isotonic, tack. Please help me figure it all out, I need to save this mare from a needless pregnancy!
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AND I sobbed my heart out last night at the thought of losing the gelding after investing so much time, money and effort in him.
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You're working three jobs to pay for his horses - and he wants to put one in foal???

You must be mad. Walk away......................
 
Tell him how much it will cost to put the mare in foal which is quite a lot perhaps that will make him realise that it is not cheap. Also by the time swabs have come back it would probably too late this season and he might go off the idea over the winter.
 
Thanks Maestro,
I've already said its too late this season. Told him to decide on a stallion by Xmas and then I will look for mare coming in season Feb/March. We used to breed as early as poss in the season and most of our foals were born Feb/March time which made sure they were mature as yearlings. Anyway, whats involved with AI? I figured he'd have to have swabs done, then have the vet out for the AI and then scan. I can't imagine he's going to pay out for all that!!!! I think he's got a vision of a turkey baster!!!! I have thought about saying yeah yeah and then just not telling him when she comes in season (which is what happened this year) and saying that I haven't seen her come in season. His idea of checking the horses is driving past the field!!! He won't know. I also think I'm going to have to be brave and say that if he does put the mare in foal he'll have to find someone else to look after the horses. I've got enough to do. As hard as that will be as I have such an amazing relationship with the gelding and he is the most amazing horse I have ever met. He truly is magnificent to me.
 
Why not ask to buy the gelding - and then move on.

Sorry, I just couldn't entertain even discussing putting the mare in foal with him in your situation.
 
If only it was that easy Amymay.

I can't afford to keep the horse alone and can't bear the thought of sharing him let alone losing him. He is my whole world an my whole life evolves around him. I think I'm lucky to have what I have in that the field rent, hay, feet trim and worming is paid for. Without that being paid for I couldn't do any of what I do with the gelding. Hopefully it won't come to anything as in previous years. I really don't think he's thought it through. And at the end of the day he never ever stops me from doing anything with the gelding, it is like owning him except I get this agro that puts me on a real downer about every 8 weeks or so. Wouldn't be so bad but the loan people initially said that they would be happy to have a foal to play with but they've changed their mind now. I can understand where they're coming from and don't blame them. But I've found the most wonderful horse ever and I just don't think there will ever be another one to top him. I have a friend coming over at the weekend who used to look after 3 other horses for this bloke - she may well have a better idea on how to play it.
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Well to be quite frank, without scanning, vets visits etc etc he is very unlikely to get her in foal using a turkey baster situation!
What about the stallion - you have to pay stud fee, collection fee.
He is also possibly putting this mare at risk by putting her to such a large stallion, depending on the build of mare/stallion, not to mention her arthritis could worsen.

I have to say, I think you are barmy even continuing as you are. Sorry.
 
I agree with AmyMay I'm afraid - it's a hard one but if he doesn't have someone to care for them then he will either have to find someone who will or sell them so it might be the push he needs to do something. I'm afraid it is all too easy for people to get used to having everything done for them - I've got a classic example at home - but if it is costing you money as well as your time and effort I would be cutting my losses. Buy the gelding if you can afford to or even ask if you can take JUST him on full loan and pay him off bit by bit - BUT get it in writing.
I would not even contemplate going down the breeding route - to many things can go wrong and it will only be you there to sort it out and that would not be your responsibility.
 
Touchwood, I've said to him everything that everyone has said on here! It just falls on deaf ears. He's someone who has a small amount of knowledge and thinks he knows everything which is extremely dangerous in my opinion. I stuck around to help because of the sights I've seen and it makes the mind boggle what he's put the horses through in their life. If I wasn't there, the mare would have laminitis as well as the arthritis and he would still be driving her! In all honest I hate him and have suffered the situation for two years now because I love that gelding. I think that time is coming where I'm going to say I've had enough. I just don't want to lose the gelding.
 
Eventrider23,
Yeah I'm with you all on this. I don't want a foal, like I said its breeding for the sake of it. He hasn't got the time to deal with his other 4 horses that I thankfully don't have anything to do with them. I think because everything went OK with the foal that he had by accident he thinks he can do it again that way. I'm going to have to be brave and tell him that if he wants to put the mare in foal he will need to find someone else to look after her. I will say that I only want the gelding and he is all I'm interested in. Once I've been brave enough to stick my neck out I'll let you all know if I'm horseless again. I had 8 years away from horses and I just don't want to lose the gelding. The cheapest way I've calculated keeping him is going to cost £150 per month and I'm struggling to do £75!! In my favour there is another owner of the gelding (lets call him A, he has the majority say but doesn't want to be involved and we'll call the pillock owner that I've already been talking about B!). I know A basically sees it that I have the gelding on loan and has told me that I can have the horse as long as I want him to do with as I please but don't ask for money as he doesn't want anything to do with the horse but said he won't sell him because he knows I'm completely in love. When this conversation cropped up with B before I was told by A that B didn't have any money, it wouldn't happen and not to worry about it. I just live in hope that's still the situation.
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I wish there was a vet out there that would diagnose the mare infertile!!!!! That would solve all the problems!!!
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Oooh, no thats not me. Not brave, rich or stupid enough to do that!

I just keep coming back to: surely fait can't be cruel enough to let me have what I have with the gelding for me lose him and have him taken away from me.

I live by everything happens for a reason - maybe this is all happening so that I can be brave and stand up for myself in this situation for once??? I just wish I had enough money to buy them both and get them away.

Everything happens for a reason - just got to figure out the reason this time!!!
 
Find out which stallion he wants to use, then find out how much the stud fee is and then tot up all the costs for the vets, swabs, semen collect, semen delivery, insemination etc etc (the stud where the stallion studs will probably have a price list and your vet will quote you over the phone) then present it to him as ive worked out the cost of putting the mare infoal for you and that if she takes first time..........and watch him go green and his arms get shorter and his pockets get deeper (in other words hope he is put off!)
 
Hey everyone, thanks for your input.
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The friend I sobbed over last night has just text to check up on me.
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I have plans up my sleeve and I'm feeling more positive now, especially thanks to Horsegroupie's good ideas.
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I'm off home and no PC at home at the mo so will update you all on Monday as to how this weekend went and what plans myself and the loan people have come up with. Please keep your comments coming, as you may come up with something I haven't/don't think of over the weekend.
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I'm determined that gelding will be mine one day and I can't just give up and walk away now. He loves me as much as I love him.
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And I really don't want a foal.
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Wise advice from horsegroupie, the total cost including rearing the foal to four with wormers/vaccinations, foot trims etc may just make him change his mind.
Sadly the man knows he has you over a barrel due to the gelding.
I've met people like him before, nothing you say is really going to permeate his brain as he already thinks he knows the answers..
The cost however may...
 
So the update - I'd missunderstood the loan people, as is easy to do in text talk!!! They weren't saying they'd walk away, they were saying that the owner would have to pay for everything. The loan people have already invested £720 in the mare and only had her about 3 months so far!!!!!!!!!!!
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I thought I was mad!!!! But it evens itself out over a year as we actually spend less on these good doers through the winter. I've already started printing off info about AI, Care of Mare and Foal etc etc. I will be telling the owner that if he puts her in foal that he will have to look after her because I don't want the responsibility and I have reached a point that if I have to walk away I will. But it would be INCREADLIBY HARD! The owner was at the yard on Friday night when myself and the loan people got to the field - he didn't bother coming to say hello or even meeting the loan people!!!! Just spoke to him on the phone to remind him to leave me wormer money for tomorrow, yeah right, he says it will be there but it will be at least a week before I see it!!!!!!!!! He said he didn't come over because he was with his wife, oh man, she kicks off big time when he speaks to me, even more so since I've gone from size 20 in March to size 10 now. Helloooooooo, does she not realise he repulses me!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!! When I type it like this I wonder how I've mangaged two years of this crap
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Now I've lost my train of thought, LOL!!! Oh yeah, friends who have been with me throughout the two years and the loan people and I all think that he's just trying to assert his authority over us and remind us that he owns them. I think I will also have to speak to the the other owner of my boy and ask him to remind the other owner what a fantastic position he is in!!!! I've also photocopied my note book and reciepts to show him what I've spent on his horses!!!!! So we're planning that we will tell him when the mare is FULL in season, that way by the time he's got his act together she should have gone out of season and he'll have missed the boat. But is there anyone out there who wants to diagnose her infertile - PLEASE!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!! Feeling much better today about the whole situation, there were a fair few tears shed last week, I just can't stand the thought of losing that horse, I've brought him further than any other horse I've ever had. THANK YOU all very much for seeing me through a bad patch. I hope you'll be there for me when it all kicks off again - usually around every 8-10 weeks!!!!
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