I need help ---Welfare issue.

SantaVera

SantaVera

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2nd update. the owner is a retired strasser trimmer. shes a person who openly admits to no faith in vets farriers or doctors, yet it goes deeper than that, its more than no faith in, its a complete disregard for normal ,usual or traditional advice and she is very vocal about letting everyone know her ideas ( we only usually meet up at social occasions) and how bad she believes anything else to be.
I mentioned excellent lami management advice on the BHS website, but as soon as BHS was mentioned she sorted switched off. very difficult situation.
I hope the vets can take control of this situation.Owner has already told me shes not going to have it xrayed as its always uneccessary you can tell by looking at the wall if there is rotation .(unbelievable!) I am going to ring them today and ask to speak to the senior partner, as she said she collected some bute some time ago and I get the impression there wasnt a visit ( i may be quite wrong here of course). I want to air my concerns to the vets. She owns another very elderly horse so even if this one is PTS she will need vets in the future,although she refuses to have tet or flu vaccs as she doesnt believe in those either! I have querried mental health issues but have come to the conclusion that shes just "alternative".
Yesterday I rang to find out if indeed a vet had been ,the answer being they were calling later that day, as the conversation went on I told her she needed to get a registered farrier to the animal to sorts its feet, she refuses to believe its possible lami ( I'd bet my car that it is). At this point she told me that was rubbish and put the phone down. So to discover the outcome I will need to wait for it to get out there on the grapevine. might take a while.
 
Meowy Catkin

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As soon as you said 'Strasser' my first thought was that you should call an equine welfare organisation even though she claims a vet is coming.

The whole thing was discredited and so cruel. This is beyond just being alternative and I wouldn't piss about and I wouldn't give her any benefit of any doubts.
 
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Old school

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If you find out the vet did indeed come out, I would go ahead and contact the welfare folks too. Who is to know it was you who made contact. Maybe the vet could hit a brick wall with this person. Even though they have authority to act, it is not always straightforward. A second party might just push it all along a bit quicker for the sake of the horse.
 
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I’m afraid any friendship there was would be disregarded for me, after all the info provided, it is a welfare case and forget the friendship in whatever form it is and get the WHW and the like (not the RSPCA) involved. This woman isn’t a friend and I would be extremely surprised if the vets ever did go out (if she doesn’t believe in them, why would she pay a call out for them to come out).

Im so proud of you OP and that isn’t meant to be patronising, these situations are incredibly tough to deal with but we have to stand up for those that don’t have a voice of their own. I can’t abide neglect.
 
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southerncomfort

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Backtoblack said:
2nd update. the owner is a retired strasser trimmer. shes a person who openly admits to no faith in vets farriers or doctors, yet it goes deeper than that, its more than no faith in, its a complete disregard for normal ,usual or traditional advice and she is very vocal about letting everyone know her ideas ( we only usually meet up at social occasions) and how bad she believes anything else to be.
I mentioned excellent lami management advice on the BHS website, but as soon as BHS was mentioned she sorted switched off. very difficult situation.
I hope the vets can take control of this situation.Owner has already told me shes not going to have it xrayed as its always uneccessary you can tell by looking at the wall if there is rotation .(unbelievable!) I am going to ring them today and ask to speak to the senior partner, as she said she collected some bute some time ago and I get the impression there wasnt a visit ( i may be quite wrong here of course). I want to air my concerns to the vets. She owns another very elderly horse so even if this one is PTS she will need vets in the future,although she refuses to have tet or flu vaccs as she doesnt believe in those either! I have querried mental health issues but have come to the conclusion that shes just "alternative".
Yesterday I rang to find out if indeed a vet had been ,the answer being they were calling later that day, as the conversation went on I told her she needed to get a registered farrier to the animal to sorts its feet, she refuses to believe its possible lami ( I'd bet my car that it is). At this point she told me that was rubbish and put the phone down. So to discover the outcome I will need to wait for it to get out there on the grapevine. might take a while.
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I knew someone like this. It was like banging your head against a brick wall. Apparently crystals and essential oils worked better than veterinary medicine.

She was also in to strasser. Her horse didn't stand up for 48 hours after being trimmed once and couldn't walk for another week. He was also the fattest horse I've ever seen. It was wicked.

Younger me was too scared of repercussions to report her. I'd been on the receiving end of her temper a couple of times and I'll admit I was scared of her. Also I thought welfare people would only be interested in horses that looked like hat racks.

Thank God she eventually lost interest and sold him.

I would handle things very differently now for sure but it's difficult in a small community where everyone would know it was you had made the call.
 
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paddy555

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Backtoblack said:
2nd update. the owner is a retired strasser trimmer. shes a person who openly admits to no faith in vets farriers or doctors, yet it goes deeper than that, its more than no faith in, its a complete disregard for normal ,usual or traditional advice and she is very vocal about letting everyone know her ideas ( we only usually meet up at social occasions) and how bad she believes anything else to be.
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I was there at the beginning of Strasser so I now totally understand her and her way of thinking.

I did one of the 3 day Strasser trimming courses to try and understand the chaos that was going on. (I had trimmed my own for 20 years previously and, no, I never strasser trimmed before anyone asks)
The first morning comprised of talks on indoctrination. Parts were good, horses out in fields wandering etc etc. Then we got to the bit that "vets and everyone else won't understand so make sure you turn the trimmed horse out in a field away from the road (and prying eyes)
The trimmers were so indoctrinated with this so it is very easy to see where your friend is coming from.

The only advice I can give you is that she will NEVER change her views. Strasser was 20 years ago. If she hasn't learnt by now she never will.
What should have happened then, and didn't, was that we should have gone straight to the welfare authorities and demanded they act immediately. I regret that didn't happen. I saw several Strasser trimmed horses. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't hesitate to report them. I regret that I didn't.

If I was in this position I would ring the head vet, explain the situation and advise that I was ringing to warn them I was reporting the matter to the welfare authorities. I was just ringing as a matter of courtesy so they were aware when the authorities would no doubt contact them. I would also casually point out their prescribing of bute and wonder if they had ever checked what they were prescribing for.

I am afraid this horse doesn't have a while. From what you describe it will be in agony and I suspect there will only be one solution to remove it's pain. I guess you will lose your friend. I'm truly sorry you are in this position but there is no way the horse will resolve itself and it needs help.
You may get comments from the vet. If you don't get a positive response then I would let rip at every welfare organisation (including the RSPCA because of the strasser connection)
 
Meowy Catkin

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paddy555 said:
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/strasser-student-fights-conviction-94361
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It's just beyond comprehension to anyone who isn't a member of the cult. :(

ETA -
According to the RSPCA, Brambles was suffering from chronic laminitis affecting both front feet, but instead of calling a vet, Mrs Kowalski rasped and trimmed the pony’s hooves to the point of “mutilation”.

Dr Strasser testified that, based on photographs, there was nothing to show trimming was excessive and that, merely, Brambles’s hooves had “a good trim”. She said a sick pony required fresh air, not painkillers.
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Sossigpoker

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If you report this awful cow the organisation wont say who reported her!
It sounds like there are animals suffering I that place so what's stopping you? Back in the days when I thought RSPCA did anything I reported a horse owner on the same yard I was at! Frankly , I don't give a shite what anyone thinks of me if they are neglecting or abusing an animal.
 
PurBee

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Backtoblack said:
update. Have spoken to vet, as they rightly say cant comment or discuss because of patient confidentiality ( quite right) but that the horse as been seen by a vet and "the matter is in hand".
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You have done what you can for now b2b. Its a really tricky situation youre in. I hope the vet keeps an eye on the horse.
With any dogmatic belief systems, there’s refusal to step outside of the entrenched dogma....but when needs must, people have to be open minded and try several options to find a solution.

If your friend doesnt believe in vets/drugs etc why is she giving bute? Sounds like she’s conflicted, and i hope you at least can maintain some kind of link with her and the horse for its welfare, as oftentimes owner private issues impact their animals.

Strasser trim techniques are brutal imo. Everything gets trimmed right down, scalped...in horses that need extra wall/sole/frog material as cushioning. They need booting/cushioning if anything, not less support, through an aggressive trim. Even in horses without lami, doing a strasser style trim would leave it sore due to the extent of the trim.
Many learnt about strasser but quickly moved from that line of thinking to a trim modality of ‘less is more’ regarding sole/frog trimming especially.

At least now vets have confirmed theyve seen the horse and are involved...a step in the right direction.
 
fankino04

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Many years ago my mare had a freak accident in the field and broke her femur, vet came out that evening and examined her, gave her lots of pain meds and said they would be back with one of the partners the next day to confirm diagnosis. They couldn't give me a time and got there in the 45 minute window I had to take my partner to work in so as I wasn't there they examined her and called me to say it was in fact her femur, nothing could be done and they would be back at 2 PM to PTS. I asked if there was no way of operating, could I call a friend at liphook and see if they could help etc, vet was very rude and said if I wasn't there to authorise PTS they would refer as a welfare case and do it without my consent. Terrible bedside manner by the vet but in your case I hope the one treating is as bullish as this one.
 
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