paulineh
Well-Known Member
Have you thought being lunged yourself. This will be good as your instructor would have control of the horse and you could work on your balance. Working without stirrups and reins help a great deal.
I need help with my 16 year old thoroughbred!!
- Thread starter Ando85
- Start date
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
Something else to think about - if he has been kept with just one other horse for 8 years, he might have formed a very strong bond with that horse and be missing it. I know horses live in the present, unlike people (often), but if he had been only with that same horse for many years they will have formed a strong bond. Add that to the change in environment, routine, rider, and everything has changed for him so he probably will take a while to settle down. It sounds like things are improving for you though which is great.
I wonder whether it might be worth asking your instructor to ride him once a week for you maybe? Especially as he is coming back into work, he might be feeling a bit well and it sounds like he is pushing the boundaries, so having someone more experienced one can only be a good thing. Last year I bought a young, very green horse and struggled with him as he started to get fitter and stronger. For a while my YO schooled him 3x per week to establish his manners and response to the aids. Now he is going well, she still rides him once a week for me and it's so useful for both him and me. I know your horse is older and established, but it never hurts to have your instructor ride. If he tries it on with her, she will be able to deal with it more quickly and hopefully nip it in the bud. Also, she will be able to explain to you how to deal with it, having felt/ experienced it herself.
Hope things continue to improve, look forward to hearing about your progress
I wonder whether it might be worth asking your instructor to ride him once a week for you maybe? Especially as he is coming back into work, he might be feeling a bit well and it sounds like he is pushing the boundaries, so having someone more experienced one can only be a good thing. Last year I bought a young, very green horse and struggled with him as he started to get fitter and stronger. For a while my YO schooled him 3x per week to establish his manners and response to the aids. Now he is going well, she still rides him once a week for me and it's so useful for both him and me. I know your horse is older and established, but it never hurts to have your instructor ride. If he tries it on with her, she will be able to deal with it more quickly and hopefully nip it in the bud. Also, she will be able to explain to you how to deal with it, having felt/ experienced it herself.
Hope things continue to improve, look forward to hearing about your progress
Ando85
Member
Hi everyone looking for advice again please. Things aren't improving with my TB. It's so disheartening I think we've cracked it and them something else will happen. He's so stressed in his box despite only being in there for a short time when I'm grooming or tacking him up. When I try to groom him he tries to kick out on me and despite being tied up will knock me about a bit.
I was working him in the school last week and he bucked me off and really hurt me. I got straight back on him and carried on but he's really meaning these bucks now he wants me off!!
Since then a more experienced person has been working him on the lunge and he was perfect but he's not like that with me 😥
Now when I'm bringing him in he's trying to take off on me and I have to take him back to his field with a shiffny or he'll drag me.
The whole thing is upsetting me now. I've looked into his history as I've found the girl who used to ride him when he was in racing and he was known for bucking and bronking. He was sedated when hacking out!!
I just don't know what to do his previous owner isn't in the country. The more experienced ladies on the yard are worried I'm going to end up hurt.
I've fell for this horse!! He's like two different horses he's perfect in the field but in the box and when riding he's not this isn't what I wanted. I wanted a horse I could enjoy and hack out on and he's dangerous and unpredictable with me. I feel so torn please someone give me advice.
Many thanks
I was working him in the school last week and he bucked me off and really hurt me. I got straight back on him and carried on but he's really meaning these bucks now he wants me off!!
Since then a more experienced person has been working him on the lunge and he was perfect but he's not like that with me 😥
Now when I'm bringing him in he's trying to take off on me and I have to take him back to his field with a shiffny or he'll drag me.
The whole thing is upsetting me now. I've looked into his history as I've found the girl who used to ride him when he was in racing and he was known for bucking and bronking. He was sedated when hacking out!!
I just don't know what to do his previous owner isn't in the country. The more experienced ladies on the yard are worried I'm going to end up hurt.
I've fell for this horse!! He's like two different horses he's perfect in the field but in the box and when riding he's not this isn't what I wanted. I wanted a horse I could enjoy and hack out on and he's dangerous and unpredictable with me. I feel so torn please someone give me advice.
Many thanks
Ando85
Member
Can I just add as well that my instructor isn't able to ride at the moment as she's had an injury. The more experienced ladies on the yard are reluctant to ride him because of how he is. I haven't got the money to send him somewhere or get someone to ride him. I'm so stuck people 😥
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
It took my 14yo (at the time) TB about 6 months to calm down and I'd say 12 to completely settle with me. But we've now got a great bond and I don't regret a single time I sat outside her stable and cried.
If theres no physical reason eg pain, I'd keep trying and be as patient as you can be!
Are you sure his saddle fits? Get it checked by a saddle fitter if you already haven't (sorry haven't read everything!).
Also I'd recommend TopSpec Calmer. It really took the edge off with mine and I kept her on it for the first 6 months.
What are you feeding him?
Could you not give him a month over winter out? And just do groundwork and bond in that time? And then perhaps pay someone to ride him a few times to bring him back in?
If theres no physical reason eg pain, I'd keep trying and be as patient as you can be!
Are you sure his saddle fits? Get it checked by a saddle fitter if you already haven't (sorry haven't read everything!).
Also I'd recommend TopSpec Calmer. It really took the edge off with mine and I kept her on it for the first 6 months.
What are you feeding him?
Could you not give him a month over winter out? And just do groundwork and bond in that time? And then perhaps pay someone to ride him a few times to bring him back in?
claracanter
Well-Known Member
Have you tried taking him off the speedibeet. A lot of TB's react badly to sugar. You can get unmolassed sugarbeet( but even this is too much for my TB) Try him on a high fibre diet and see if he calms down a bit. A lot of feeds have added sugars so check he's not getting anything unnecessary.
The bucking could be symptomatic of something else. Has he had his back checked?
Have a look at this thread http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?647810-TB-turned-difficult-in-winter!
It seems you are not alone!
The bucking could be symptomatic of something else. Has he had his back checked?
Have a look at this thread http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?647810-TB-turned-difficult-in-winter!
It seems you are not alone!
madlady
Well-Known Member
Are you saying his previous owner sedated him for hacking out or he was sedated when he was still on a racing yard? Sorry confused!
I would knock the riding on the head and spend the next few months on groundwork - long reining, in hand obstacles, in hand hacks but not necessarily lunging as a lot of lunging will fitten him up which might not be the best thing at the moment.
Groundwork will build up trust (both ways) and help you to get to know him and his quirks.
The other thing is that there really might be an underlying reason - there could be arthritic changes or something going on that is being highlighted by him being brought back into work.
Are you able to have a physio out to him? I'd certainly consider a physio/vet visit to determine if there is something physically wrong - if he has the onset of arthritis or kissing spine then that could very easily explain his behaviour.
I would knock the riding on the head and spend the next few months on groundwork - long reining, in hand obstacles, in hand hacks but not necessarily lunging as a lot of lunging will fitten him up which might not be the best thing at the moment.
Groundwork will build up trust (both ways) and help you to get to know him and his quirks.
The other thing is that there really might be an underlying reason - there could be arthritic changes or something going on that is being highlighted by him being brought back into work.
Are you able to have a physio out to him? I'd certainly consider a physio/vet visit to determine if there is something physically wrong - if he has the onset of arthritis or kissing spine then that could very easily explain his behaviour.
pipper
Well-Known Member
Agree with the sugar thing - its worth a try. another thing you can have a go with is a balance strap attached to the front d rings of the saddle (or a neck strap) when you feel yourself tensing up, especially with your hands, grab hold of this strap. It will stop you holding on tight to his mouth and will give him the (false) impression that you are staying relaxed. It will also give you extra security so that you are able to stay onboard when he plays up. (or maybe the RSTOR strap)
MadBlackLab
Well-Known Member
I agree with the Sugar thing for some reasons it really gets too some TB heads. Try something more natural and with less sugar like simple systems. Also think forget riding and just do ground work and lungeing and concentrate on building a bond with him from the ground
PaddyMonty
Well-Known Member
OP - what area are you based? They may be someone on here who may be able to help you even if it is short term.
DreamingIsBelieving
Well-Known Member
He sounds very similar to the mare I used to loan. She had no respect for my space in the stable and although she never kicked with meaning she would lift her back leg and give it a little swing around as a sort of 'warning'. Do you think he's being bargey in the stable because he's stressed or do you think it's a respect issue? And are you sure it's stress he's feeling in the stable or could it be excitement? What's he like tied up outside his stable?
As for riding, what triggers the bucking? E.g is it when you're asking for a downward transition? Sadly, if he was known for bucking when he was younger, it's likely a habit he may always have. Although at the moment he's in 'racing mode', once you get him back to 'happy hacker mode' like he was when you viewed him then the bucking may disappear. I'd also take him off all his feed (gradually reduce it) and see if that makes a difference so you can rule out his diet as a possible trigger.
I think it would be very insightful to see him being ridden by someone else. If your instructor is injured and unable to ride could you ask her if she knows someone who would be willing to come and ride him, just to see how he goes with someone else?
Also, I know all horses are different but the mare I loaned bucked in the school but never out hacking (she went on to become a happy hacker with her new owner). If your horse is the same then it makes sense given all his old owner did with him was hack, the bucking may be an issue they never experienced.
Rereading your first post, you mention he was out of work for a year. The first time he was ridden in a year was when you viewed him? It may be that what he's like now is a more realistic indicator of his ridden behaviour than what he was like when he was dragged out of a field unfit and possibly with only a dim memory of what being ridden means. Once he began to be ridden more often the memories and the emotions attached to those memories may have resurfaced and he may now be becoming the horse he once was. Of course that doesn't explain his behaviour in the stable.
Alternatively, do you think there's any chance he was doped when you viewed him? Not a possibility we like to think of, but he does sound like he's had a personality transplant since you brought him home.
As for riding, what triggers the bucking? E.g is it when you're asking for a downward transition? Sadly, if he was known for bucking when he was younger, it's likely a habit he may always have. Although at the moment he's in 'racing mode', once you get him back to 'happy hacker mode' like he was when you viewed him then the bucking may disappear. I'd also take him off all his feed (gradually reduce it) and see if that makes a difference so you can rule out his diet as a possible trigger.
I think it would be very insightful to see him being ridden by someone else. If your instructor is injured and unable to ride could you ask her if she knows someone who would be willing to come and ride him, just to see how he goes with someone else?
Also, I know all horses are different but the mare I loaned bucked in the school but never out hacking (she went on to become a happy hacker with her new owner). If your horse is the same then it makes sense given all his old owner did with him was hack, the bucking may be an issue they never experienced.
Rereading your first post, you mention he was out of work for a year. The first time he was ridden in a year was when you viewed him? It may be that what he's like now is a more realistic indicator of his ridden behaviour than what he was like when he was dragged out of a field unfit and possibly with only a dim memory of what being ridden means. Once he began to be ridden more often the memories and the emotions attached to those memories may have resurfaced and he may now be becoming the horse he once was. Of course that doesn't explain his behaviour in the stable.
Alternatively, do you think there's any chance he was doped when you viewed him? Not a possibility we like to think of, but he does sound like he's had a personality transplant since you brought him home.
Ando85
Member
Thank you everyone for your replies they really help!! 😊
I have changed his feeds and now feed him one scoop of Hi Fi Lite and Fast Fibre a day.
He has had his back checked and his saddle and everything's ok.
I use a running martingale with a breastplate on him to give me extra control and something to hold onto when he goes.
I hope he wasn't doped when I rode him but he is like a coneyely different horse to the one I viewed.
I am a novice and I wanted a quiet horse who was happy to hack out with no vices I was assured he was all of these and he certainly seemed he was with his previous owner.
I'm worrying it's me and he doesn't like me?! I struggle being authoritive with him and I feel as if he does try to push me around. Seeing him being lunged with a very experienced lady on the yard opened my eyes a bit because he doesn't listen to me at all 😥
It's so upsetting I'm not sleeping very well. I just want to have a partnership with him and be able to happily hack out and enjoy each other.
I'm starting to become nervous around him and I dread the days I bring him in for exercise. I feel like everyone on the yard is talking about it and watching but really I know it's because they are worried.
Today my instructor told me to ride another horse he was a very young horse but he has an old head on him and it bought my confidence back a little.
I worry I'm not going to be able to change him and I'm too green for him. It's hard as well when the ladies on the yard give me different views and they are hard to listen to 😥
Thank you everyone xx
I have changed his feeds and now feed him one scoop of Hi Fi Lite and Fast Fibre a day.
He has had his back checked and his saddle and everything's ok.
I use a running martingale with a breastplate on him to give me extra control and something to hold onto when he goes.
I hope he wasn't doped when I rode him but he is like a coneyely different horse to the one I viewed.
I am a novice and I wanted a quiet horse who was happy to hack out with no vices I was assured he was all of these and he certainly seemed he was with his previous owner.
I'm worrying it's me and he doesn't like me?! I struggle being authoritive with him and I feel as if he does try to push me around. Seeing him being lunged with a very experienced lady on the yard opened my eyes a bit because he doesn't listen to me at all 😥
It's so upsetting I'm not sleeping very well. I just want to have a partnership with him and be able to happily hack out and enjoy each other.
I'm starting to become nervous around him and I dread the days I bring him in for exercise. I feel like everyone on the yard is talking about it and watching but really I know it's because they are worried.
Today my instructor told me to ride another horse he was a very young horse but he has an old head on him and it bought my confidence back a little.
I worry I'm not going to be able to change him and I'm too green for him. It's hard as well when the ladies on the yard give me different views and they are hard to listen to 😥
Thank you everyone xx
Ando85
Member
Oh and just to add he's also on a top spec calmer has been for about 1 month now xxx
Ando85
Member
His previous owner never sedated him it was the rider who rode him at the race yard for 5 years because he was unable to hack out otherwise, apparently he couldn't be hacked out with other horses either because he would explode with excitement. These people are all experienced people too 😥
claracanter
Well-Known Member
I would look at what you are feeding him again. I wouldn't feed my TB either of those because I know they would set him alight.
Would you be able to get an instructor who would ride him for you or send him somewhere for schooling and get an expert's opinion.
It must be added pressure thinking everyone at the yard is looking at you, even if they aren't.
Would you be able to get an instructor who would ride him for you or send him somewhere for schooling and get an expert's opinion.
It must be added pressure thinking everyone at the yard is looking at you, even if they aren't.
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
I'd cut out feed then OP and just give him unlimited hay.
Where are you in the country? I'm pretty certain someone on here will be able to help
Where are you in the country? I'm pretty certain someone on here will be able to help
Ando85
Member
I'm only feeding him what's he's always had though his previous owner fed him the same. I was advised to keep his feed the same.
He was on speedibeet but I swapped that for fast fibre instead?
I haven't got the money to spend on sending him away for schooling but my instructor is going to ask someone to come and ride him for me.
Do you think I have been lied to and this is him?! 😥
He was on speedibeet but I swapped that for fast fibre instead?
I haven't got the money to spend on sending him away for schooling but my instructor is going to ask someone to come and ride him for me.
Do you think I have been lied to and this is him?! 😥
Ando85
Member
I am in Shrewsbury xx
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
Yes but he'd been with his old owner for 8 years don't forget. He's gone through great change and that will be a contributing factor (if not the reason) to why he's behaving the way he is. I'd definitely cut out feed for now. It's just extra energy and sugar that can be making him loopy!
Perhaps you have been lied to but then by the same token - why would they keep him for 8 years if this was 'him'? I think he needs time and patience. Honestly mine was the same (actually - worse!) and it took her 6 months to calm down and 12 to completely settle. These days I would, and have, let complete begginers on her without a single worry.
Shrewburys a little far for me at the moment (my clutch has decided to vacate my life!) but if you're still having trouble in the next few weeks let me know! Not that I can ride right now as I'm pregnant! But I can still help with groundwork etc.
DreamingIsBelieving
Well-Known Member
From the behaviour that you've described, I think that you could sort out the naughtiness and respect issues, but I don't think you'll ever get a quiet, laid back, easy-going horse, because that doesn't seem to be in his nature. With all the work, you could end up with an obedient, sensitive but strong horse with a tendency towards over-excitability. Something a confident, competent (but not necessarily experienced) rider may find a great joy to ride.
How many times did you view him before you bought him? A Tb ex-racer that's been out of work for a year and in need of reschooling isn't exactly many people's idea of a perfect first horse (sounds more like a project, tbh), so I find it a tiny bit suspicious that the owner thought he would be suitable for a novice. Was his behaviour unchanged between the 1st and 2nd viewing? Did you get a vetting? If you did then did they do a blood test for the presence of drugs? Such a change in personality seems odd, even for a thoroughbred!
I think seeing how he acts with someone else will be very telling. If the issues disappear, then there is definitely hope!
How many times did you view him before you bought him? A Tb ex-racer that's been out of work for a year and in need of reschooling isn't exactly many people's idea of a perfect first horse (sounds more like a project, tbh), so I find it a tiny bit suspicious that the owner thought he would be suitable for a novice. Was his behaviour unchanged between the 1st and 2nd viewing? Did you get a vetting? If you did then did they do a blood test for the presence of drugs? Such a change in personality seems odd, even for a thoroughbred!
I think seeing how he acts with someone else will be very telling. If the issues disappear, then there is definitely hope!
claracanter
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you have been lied to or not OP
Perhaps just give him ad lib hay and some grass nuts for now. Cut out the fast fibre. I spoke to an Allen and Page rep about my boy and said he was sensitive to sugar, she pretty much said the only thing suitable from their range would be veteran vitality! He's 6, I wasn't going to feed that but anyway I took it to be her way of saying that was the only feed they do that doesn't have sugar.
That's great if your instructor can get some one to ride him.
Would you think about getting a vet to check him over in case it is a pain issue?
Perhaps just give him ad lib hay and some grass nuts for now. Cut out the fast fibre. I spoke to an Allen and Page rep about my boy and said he was sensitive to sugar, she pretty much said the only thing suitable from their range would be veteran vitality! He's 6, I wasn't going to feed that but anyway I took it to be her way of saying that was the only feed they do that doesn't have sugar.
That's great if your instructor can get some one to ride him.
Would you think about getting a vet to check him over in case it is a pain issue?
Ando85
Member
I visited him about 6 times with in a month I observed how he was with his owner. He was very relaxed and a big softie. The bond he had with his owner was beautiful!!
They said because of his age he'd only need light schooling to bring back into work.
This is definitely not a pain issue I've had everything checked!!
Do you think he's unhappy?! Maybe the change has upset him it's a busy yard and not what he's used to. He'll be missing his owner and maybe he resents me?!
I will try everything your suggesting and see what happens. People are telling me to give up with him but I know he's a lovely horse I just want him to bond with me 😥
They said because of his age he'd only need light schooling to bring back into work.
This is definitely not a pain issue I've had everything checked!!
Do you think he's unhappy?! Maybe the change has upset him it's a busy yard and not what he's used to. He'll be missing his owner and maybe he resents me?!
I will try everything your suggesting and see what happens. People are telling me to give up with him but I know he's a lovely horse I just want him to bond with me 😥
MadBlackLab
Well-Known Member
could he have an ulcer?
Ando85
Member
I've had all of this checked he is medically fine xx
MadBlackLab
Well-Known Member
ok just thought I'd check
Frenchfancy
Member
I think you have done well to do as much as you have done.
If it were me I would be contacting the old owner to see if he would take him back. If they had such a good bond it is possible he misses his horse too. You could then start again with something more suitable.
If you don't you could risk losing your confidence and your love of horses. Life is too short for that. We ride because we love it. Find yourself a horse that you can ride and enjoy.
If it were me I would be contacting the old owner to see if he would take him back. If they had such a good bond it is possible he misses his horse too. You could then start again with something more suitable.
If you don't you could risk losing your confidence and your love of horses. Life is too short for that. We ride because we love it. Find yourself a horse that you can ride and enjoy.
DreamingIsBelieving
Well-Known Member
Maybe it is just an issue of him being separated from his owner of eight years who you say he was very attached to. The fact that you didn't get any bad signs within 6 viewings really makes it sound unlikely that the owner was deceiving you about his behaviour.
Tbs are sensitive (especially ex-racers). He's had an extensive racing career, being looked after and ridden by many different people, and gone from that to being (I assume) a completely one-person horse for 8 years.
A theory you may want to toy around with is that maybe the sudden change has just sent him off the loop. He has no respect or trust in you, he has not got anyone to look to for reassurance and guidance, and it's just all got too much for him. Thing is, he's not going to look to you for reassurance and guidance if he feels your nervousness and insecurity. Would you put your trust in someone who didn't even seem to trust themselves? This could also be why he went well for someone else on the lunge - he felt their confidence and put his trust in them.
Tbs are sensitive (especially ex-racers). He's had an extensive racing career, being looked after and ridden by many different people, and gone from that to being (I assume) a completely one-person horse for 8 years.
A theory you may want to toy around with is that maybe the sudden change has just sent him off the loop. He has no respect or trust in you, he has not got anyone to look to for reassurance and guidance, and it's just all got too much for him. Thing is, he's not going to look to you for reassurance and guidance if he feels your nervousness and insecurity. Would you put your trust in someone who didn't even seem to trust themselves? This could also be why he went well for someone else on the lunge - he felt their confidence and put his trust in them.
Ando85
Member
I feel awful now that's so sad to hear. I try to reassure him and offer him guidence I really do. I try and do everything right by him.
I have got so attached to him he's such a sweetheart in the field with me and I know he's a big softie really he's just not happy!!
His previous owner has stayed in contact with me and we've discussed how he's being he says to just give him time and that he's so surprised he's acting this way.
The owner is travelling and isn't returning to the UK for a long time.
I want what's best for this boy he deserves it I just wish he'd let me bond with him 😥
I have got so attached to him he's such a sweetheart in the field with me and I know he's a big softie really he's just not happy!!
His previous owner has stayed in contact with me and we've discussed how he's being he says to just give him time and that he's so surprised he's acting this way.
The owner is travelling and isn't returning to the UK for a long time.
I want what's best for this boy he deserves it I just wish he'd let me bond with him 😥
Ando85
Member
Just to add I try my hardest not to act nervous around him but it's so hard when he's stressed in his box because I have to be careful he doesn't hurt me. With riding him it's hard not to tense up when he's bucking me. Oh I wish he'd let me in!!
MadBlackLab
Well-Known Member
does he have to be stabled or can he live out 24/7?