I need to get this off my chest

Chestnuttymare

Chestnuttymare

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do you know what ticks me off?
everytime there is a thread about horses feet, the barefoot evangelists come out and tell us that every horse can go without shoes, that the owner was amazed as it was always lame when they tried it before, hallelujia! how we are all stupid and that our exercise is wrong, our feeding is wrong, all very condescending.
Anyone I meet who had their horse barefoot always seems to try and convert me and any one else they meet to change to a trimmer and how much they know about nutrition and how much they know about conformation of the foot and the correct way to trim it.

I had one who went without shoes with no trouble. My farrier trimmed his feet regularly and he was perfect, never lame.
I also have a tb who, if she loses a shoe you would think she had been stabbed in the leg. She is crippled. She is a thoroughbred and has decent enough feed for her breed, she just can't stand being without her jimmy choos. Her diet is low starch (and i mean very low), no molasses. (We maybe should be feeding organic Ginseng and slippery elm at grossly inflated prices) she is well exercised and a picture of health. I just get a bit fed up of the same old stuff being churned out. All this by people who may or may not have had a few weeks training. Of course I agree that diet and exercise come into the equation, but there are other factors, eg genetics, conformation.
That we are wrong for allowing farriers to talk us into shoes or not to allow them to trim our unshod horses because they will only do a 'pasture trim', whatever that is.
Of course horses haven't always worn shoes, but a lot of these horses aren't able to go unshod. They don't live in the same way that they did when adam was a boy.

I have said it before and will say it again, I would never let anyone who doesn't have proper farriery qualifications take any sort of sharp tool to my horses feet.
I did have the SSPCA guy drop in one day to ask if we knew where he could find a particular trimmer as he had made such a mess of horses feet that they were now a welfare case. dreadful.

I am sure there are very good trimmers out there but i prefer to trust my amazing farrier.

I have only posted this because i nearly put it on someone else thread about how to harden up their horses feet and I didn't want to hi jack their thread for a rant.
 
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Here here! My absolutely fabulous farrier is also a barefoot trimmer and he said it fascinates him how many people want to go barefoot with their horses because they've read about it online. He said that quite often people think it is the answer to any and all problems when in fact it does not suit everyhorse. My own bare was barefoot for the last 18months while having her foal however we took the decision to put shoes back on as I will not jump her at the level she jumps without studs! it's not worth the risk...and my farrier fully agrees with me! he is very much a barefoot advocate IF conditions allow and the horse is suited to it!
 
What I find very very annoying is that people think only "barefoot trimmers" can trim unshod horses.

A farrier works with horses that are shod and those that are unshod! I would much rather use a farrier than a trimmer...

Sorry, bug bear of mine, I know its very silly but sometimes...!
 
my welsh cob goes bare my tb cant - my farrier - mark from wales as done amazing stuff with his feet - had prolonged time -18 months - of abcesses - mark sugeested bars on front no shoes behind and feed - 2 yrs no abcesses. ok what may work for one horse may not for next. get good farrier and trust - now any probs in feet i call farrier before vet - mines a star wooo hoooo
 
I only went barefoot and I don't mean any specialists, I have the same farrier I have used for years because our cob was a lost case with umpteen lost shoes so we tried him barefoot, along with keratex to help and within a couple of months he was fine and going over different terrain with no problems. Our farrier constantly re-evaluates workload, type of work etc and advises on any problems every time he visits. The rest of mine are not ridden so barefoot is preferred and anyway, I am lucky enough to have two with feet as tough as old boots.

I wouldn't dare preach to anyone, horses for courses and all that. :)
 
Absolutely agree with all the above! Have had this discussion with our farrier, who is not happy about the lack of accountability among 'trimmers'. The evangelical nature of the Barefoot brigade can and does, lead to horses with badly conformed feet hving even more problems as a result of poor trimming. We currently have one retired mare with no shoes, one in work with no shoes, one with fronts only and one with a full set of shoes, so not against either shod or unshod. :)
 
OP, I agree wholeheartedly with you!
We currently have 4 horses, 1 is shod all round (we tried her without and she was too 'footy'), 1 has fronts, one is retired and was shod while working, she is now unshod. The fourth was bought without shoes, she had been a broodmare for 2 yrs. I don't know whether she had worn shoes prior to this.
Previous horses have been shod or not according to their need. For many years we have fed a high fibre/no added sugar diet in varying proportions according to need. We always aim to keep our horses into retirement.
I wouldn't have a 'barefoot trimmer/equine podiatrist anywhere near the horses. They may well take photographs but they certainly haven't done 5 yrs training. Our excellent farrier deals with them all. He first came to us as an apprentice and then took over when our farrier retired.
I will say though, that I went to a RC talk by a local farrier who said, amongst other things that he preferred not to work with unshod horses but recommended people to find a 'barefoot trimmer'. I certainly wouldn't want him near our horses either.
 
Agree! I would only ever use a trained farrier for doing my neddies feet.
The fact they trained for years and were constantly assessed to make sure they werent laming horses or doing corrective shoeing that was detrimental to the horse.
Whereas some of these "trimmers" only do a few weeks at best a few months of training. How on earth can they know the physiology required in trimming and shoeing a horse to say wether it should be barefoot if they stop learning at trimming????:eek::rolleyes:

My 3 neds are shoeless atm. because they are all youngsters and I want to wait until they need shoes either for when they start their working lives or if they develop some weird foot condition! But I intend to ride one of them and road work and jumping causes wear and tear on the feet and so I want them to be shod to protect them. :)
 
Shoot me for my stupidity if you must!!

I have never read any of these barefoot threads as they have never directly affected me.
Is barefoot the same as unshod????
Or is it some new repackaged malarky??
We never shod the shitlands, no point, we only put fronts on some and then full sets on the rest-all done by a qualified farrier. Is this not the case anymore?
 
Woopsiid, apparently the difference is that 'Barefoot trimmers' take photos of the horses feet, and tell you what to feed ('cos of course you have been doing it wrong all these yers :p) This somehow makes all the difference! Why would you listen to some random chap who has done five years training, belongs to a professional body, with a regulated register? :D (rather than someone who has been on 'a course') :D :D :D
 
Why do you even care?

If your horses are fine then great! Your farrier is a good one, fab!!! I don't see farriers or 'shod people' running to offer solutions when something goes wrong though. Never seen evangelists preaching on here, just people with in similar situations sharing experiences which is how forums work.

You go and let the side down by having a pop at people who just want the best for the horse if what they had previously wasn't working for them. Not everything can go without shoes, not every horse can go with shoes problem free and vice versa. Each to thier own.

And so if bitching about it makes you feel better then that's all that matters.
 
just one point-when your horse has ongoing problems, you've put in years of blood, sweat and tears into them but are told they they are ready for a bullet at a young age and barefoot/unshod gives you a glimmer of hope then where's the harm in trying it provided the horse's welfare isnt compromised? (and I've seen horses' welfare compromised in both shod and unshod horses). the simple fact is, many people don't know what/how to feed and might need advice-saying that, trimmers charge way too much.
I have 3 unshod and use a farrier :p
 
peteralfred said:
just one point-when your horse has ongoing problems, you've put in years of blood, sweat and tears into them but are told they they are ready for a bullet at a young age and barefoot/unshod gives you a glimmer of hope then where's the harm in trying it provided the horse's welfare isnt compromised? (and I've seen horses' welfare compromised in both shod and unshod horses). the simple fact is, many people don't know what/how to feed and might need advice-saying that, trimmers charge way too much.
I have 3 unshod and use a farrier :p
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I have no problem with this, but when you have a horse competing (very) sucessfully in shoes it is kind of irritating to be patronised by the barefooters, as if you have no idea how to manage your horse (horses need forage - who knew? :D)
 
It's called horses for courses - what works for one, will simply not work for another (despite what the barefoot evangelists say :rolleyes:).

Some of them talk quite a bit of sense - most don't.......;)
 
Arabelle said:
I have no problem with this, but when you have a horse competing (very) sucessfully in shoes it is kind of irritating to be patronised by the barefooters, as if you have no idea how to manage your horse (horses need forage - who knew? :D)
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lol-I know, I get annoyed about it as well.
some very interesting stuff has come out of barefoot though and it will continue to do so-the problem is sorting out the good from the bad and applying it to individual horses. some barefooters are very passionate, as are alot of horse people about a lot of things ;) and I thought that the more recent threads were much more balanced and useful than those say, a couple of years ago.
 
Agree. I think that barefoot as a way of keeping SOME horses is ideal and can indeed solve long standing problems for SOME horses. However, I have found that most barefoots advocates I have came across to be patronising and dismissive of anyone or anything that doesn't fully agree, and actually quite demanding & inconsiderate of others, (all of their livery field mates have to work around their barefoot regime)

I'll never forget meeting a woman on the way to a cross country start at a BE event on a narrow track at the side of a tarmac road. Before we were even close she BELLOWS, "I'll need to stay on the track my horse is barefoot!!!". i felt like shouting back SFW my horse is in his stilettos!.

I would have been happy to go on the road anyway for a few strides out of politeness, but she made such a fuss about it. How could her horse be expected to event if it couldn't walk a couple of strides on tarmac. Was she going to demand an alternative route at the gravelled over lane crossing? Surely a barefoot would cope with smooth tarmac better than a studded horse? Totally inconsiderate!. Grrrr, it totally got my goat!.
 
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Most of my horses don't have shoes ( sorry- I HATE the term barefoot)....I'm not a barefoot evangelgist, I'm not on a mission to convert.....I go on the advice of my FARRIER who is most excellent.

I have had horses with shoes- my previous one needed remedial shoeing - I really don't care whether they have shoes or not, it depends entirely on the horse/pony. Tis cheaper for a trim and balance certainly, but thats not the main issue. I totally trust my farrier....we decide whats best between us.I wouldnt let a trimmer anywhere near my horses, I'm sure some are really good but its my perogative.

I feed my horses a fibre/oil based diet because I personally feel its better for their digestive system - again, thats my choice- feed what you want;)

Please don't look at a horses feet, see no shoes and assume the owner is a barefoot despot....
 
Kizzy has no shoes, she is retired through injury, she was only ever shod in front anyway. My farrier removed the shoes, that was it, yes she was slightly sore for a little while as her feet adjusted, I used some Keratex. I did not see the need for a "transitioning" period, hoof boots which rub or anything else. Fleur was shod all round when I bought her, I don't like back shoes on in case they kick, so farrier removed them when she arrived before she was turned out. She's been fine without them, but I do like studs in front for jumping on grass, so she is shod still in front. I am sure this arrangement may not work for all, or perhaps bigger horses, she is 14.2, but she is sound, Kizzy is fine without her shoes, we are all happy so why change it.

What I hate about the "barefooter evangelist brigade" is when they say, "Oh he was lame & sore for 6 months but it was worth it" WTF! If he was sound in shoes, why was it worth it to make him lame for 6 months??
 
Well said - some horses can go barefoot, some can't! Yes in the wild they are barefoot but they don't get bred by humans, ridden or run around on tarmac roads! It is not 'natural' for a horse to be ridden either. If my horse could go without shoes then I wouldn't put them on. I also don't think the 'barefoot' diet is natural for them either.
 
Have to say I hate the term "barefoot" - my pony is a fell, he doesn't wear shoes, he's unshod, the farrier comes and gives him a trim, it's nice a cheap :D. He's on high fibre, low starch because he's a native and a fatty. I didn't realise we were being so radical and revolutionary until I read some of the barefoot threads on here!
 
Walrus said:
Have to say I hate the term "barefoot" - my pony is a fell, he doesn't wear shoes, he's unshod, the farrier comes and gives him a trim, it's nice a cheap :D. He's on high fibre, low starch because he's a native and a fatty. I didn't realise we were being so radical and revolutionary until I read some of the barefoot threads on here!
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Me neither....I just though I was keeping it simple....:rolleyes:
 
Personally, I don't really care whether a person shoes their horse or not, your horse, your money, your choice. When folk write rubbish on here like 'my horse has to go on tar mac so he needs shoes.' Wrong. Or 'my horse does lots of work so needs shoes.' Wrong again. You will wear your backside out before the feet.

As I say, do what you want with your horse, but please have some valid arguments, no wonder people feel preached at when the same old inaccurate twaddle is posted time after time.

Why 6 years to train a farrier, they cannot all be slow learners, you can train a doctor or vet in less time. It's not what they are taught it's the way they are taught that takes 6 years.
 
Got to agree with Andy Spooner. Just because someone does years training, does not make them good at their job. Same in every profession. I have barefoot horses because the farriers around here at not very good. I have seen some very shoddy work. The people who seem to knock the barefooters, i.e trimmers seem to be the ones that haven't actually tried a barefoot trimmer. I have tried both, farrier and trimmer so feel I can have an opinion about both. Each to their own. OP says that the barefoot brigade, preach about it, isn't that exactly what farrier users are doing. Live and let live.
My horses have been barefoot for 5 years, and have absolutely no trouble over tarmac or stony bridle paths.
 
festnuttyfairy said:
do you know what ticks me off?
everytime there is a thread about horses feet, the barefoot evangelists come out and tell us that every horse can go without shoes, that the owner was amazed as it was always lame when they tried it before, hallelujia! how we are all stupid and that our exercise is wrong, our feeding is wrong, all very condescending.
Anyone I meet who had their horse barefoot always seems to try and convert me and any one else they meet to change to a trimmer and how much they know about nutrition and how much they know about conformation of the foot and the correct way to trim it.

I had one who went without shoes with no trouble. My farrier trimmed his feet regularly and he was perfect, never lame.
I also have a tb who, if she loses a shoe you would think she had been stabbed in the leg. She is crippled. She is a thoroughbred and has decent enough feed for her breed, she just can't stand being without her jimmy choos. Her diet is low starch (and i mean very low), no molasses. (We maybe should be feeding organic Ginseng and slippery elm at grossly inflated prices) she is well exercised and a picture of health. I just get a bit fed up of the same old stuff being churned out. All this by people who may or may not have had a few weeks training. Of course I agree that diet and exercise come into the equation, but there are other factors, eg genetics, conformation.
That we are wrong for allowing farriers to talk us into shoes or not to allow them to trim our unshod horses because they will only do a 'pasture trim', whatever that is.
Of course horses haven't always worn shoes, but a lot of these horses aren't able to go unshod. They don't live in the same way that they did when adam was a boy.

I have said it before and will say it again, I would never let anyone who doesn't have proper farriery qualifications take any sort of sharp tool to my horses feet.
I did have the SSPCA guy drop in one day to ask if we knew where he could find a particular trimmer as he had made such a mess of horses feet that they were now a welfare case. dreadful.

I am sure there are very good trimmers out there but i prefer to trust my amazing farrier.

I have only posted this because i nearly put it on someone else thread about how to harden up their horses feet and I didn't want to hi jack their thread for a rant.
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I totally agree with this, but I find this attitude all over the shop:

Barefoot v's shoes
Worming v's counts
Rugging v's not rugging
Clipping v's not
Turn out 24/7 v's stable
NH V's other methods

On virtually every topic you can find the evangelists who tell you you do not love your horse because you do not do it their way and their way is the only right way. I don't know about everyone else but I like an ecclectic approach. What works for one horse doesn't work for all of them. Horses are not all the same, some of mine have had shoes, some have not, sometimes they are clipped/rugged/stabled etc other times not. It is all about what works best for that individual horse in it's specific circumstances. If NH and Barefooters want to preech that they are right and we are wrong, well then, I for one am happy to be classed as wrong.
 
I have to say that I also agree with Andy Spooner; I've noticed that some posts that are anti barefoot are the most vitriolic, if someone does something you personally wouldn't there is no need to get so het up and antagonistic about it, just smile sweetly and carry on, so long as you are doing what you believe to be the best for your horses then so what?
Personally I've seen trimmers that I wouldn't let near my horse, but also a fair few farriers too, so if you and your horses are happy and sound then each to their own.
 
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Am with you all the way OP!

Have had long discussions with my fantastic farrier about barefoot trimmers. He is recommened by our vets and works regulally with them and I have complete faith in him.

We breed natives so all of our youngstock are unshod until they come into work, they are worked until they need shoes!

Just to give an example, when the hard frosts started only my shod ridden ponies were coping, all the unshod broodmares/youngsters were unhappy. I was so concerned I mentioned it to both my farrier and my vet and after being checked out the verdict was that they were finding the ground too hard. These ponies have hard hooves......

I rest my case and will continue to shoe when my ponies require it.
 
I have to say I have just looked at one of the 'barefoot' posts and not one person on there has responded saying 'I would never let any horse of mine go barefoot' On the other hand I have seen advocates for barefoot breeze into other threads and say 'nooooo, don't ever shoe your horse, it is the work of the devil!' although, this approach and attitude is not always the case.

I think there is a place for both methods (as there is the argument on other topics: rugging/clipping/ stabling etc) I for one have a mare who was not shod for the first 7 years of her life, christ her feet were hardly picked up during that time and it made her a right moo over her hooves, whilst her feet were hard and good she was the biggest wimp on bridle paths if she stood on a stone. With the type of work that I was doing I was happier to shoe her. Perhaps this was just for me and my peace of mind but I found that she felt far more comfortable and confident.

However during the winter when she is not working as much, she has her shoes taken off, it gives her feet and my wallet good break, and with the lower level of work and keratex she is not uncomfortable.

I would say this though, I think that whatever someones personal preferences it is advisable to shoe horses to begin with, trying to get an older horse to deal with being shod is a nightmare! What happens if a horse ends up in the hands of someone who religiously shoes their horses? We had a cob that did not need shoing but was a bl**dy nightmare with her feet/ even to just pick them up, at 4/5yrs and 14.3 (she wasn't placid) it was really hard work and took a long time to get her used to the farrier, we made sure that she at least had an education re: being shod so that it was not such a hassle for her next owner
 
We have shod and unshod horses and are lucky to have an excellent farrier and trimmer. It should be about what suits each individual horse, not all horses can transition to barefoot if they've been shod, not all horses need shoes. Nobody can know for definite, other than owners and their professional footcare person what is right or wrong for each horse.

It's always good to hear different opinions from people. Maybe I'm a bit blinkered but I've not seen any particularly evangelical posts from either pro shoe or pro barefoot posters.
 
WHY is there such a problem with the Barefoot/ Shod thing i just dont get why it gets so heated.

I have all my horses Barefoot now & have recently used a BF Trimmer for the very first time, it was an educated decision. My farrier unfortunately wasnt doing the best job.

One of my horses has gone Barefoot to try to help an Injury, this is after he had remedial shoeing which actually made him worse. He's been Barefoot a few months now & has really improved.
Im open minded & do whats best for MY horses, the Trimmer actually impressed me a lot & im very pleased i was open minded enough to give her a try.

There are always going to be horses that can't go Barefoot but i think the majority could, however i would never let a horse be sore.

If my horses ever do need shoes they will be shod but it will take a lot of finding to find a farrier that i will be happy with.
 
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