I need to pick your brains - please read

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kayleigh_and_rocky

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On friday night i got a phone call from a potential new client who wants me to BSJA her 16.2hh 5 1/2 yr old gelding. Good happy yes well heres the catch......
This horse does not hack out - and she wants me to see if i can get it hacking (if i manage im sure i've got an owner for life!)
So here's the situation.....it started off that whenever this horse came across something it was scared of, it would spin and threaten to go up - one day the manager of the yard client was at hacked out horse and when he did this, he was from what i can gather, beaten senseless (came back bleeding). Client promptly moved horse. However now whenever hacking out and it sees something its scared of, it spins and then thinks its going to be beaten senseless so bolts. Owner now thinking of trying to hack it out on ACP!!
Where the hell do i start? Horse looks very genuine and sweet but ever so nervy. Have suggested i do a few sessions on the ground to build up trust with it first, then in the school (any ideas on groundwork i could do?) and then said if i go out on it, to go out with a horse and rider in front, AND a person on the ground leading with a lunge rein, so that at least if something does happen then someone has hold of him.
Anybody got any idea at all at how to tackle this? From what i gather this horse is not naughty and not in pain - it is genuinly terrified
So yes and thoughts welcome really...
 
How about riding another horse and leading this one - that will establish whether it can be 'hacked' out so long as it's not being ridden - from what you said it was beaten by the rider on top and not from the ground

or start by leading it out in hand on a set route - not very far - and then when it is happy deliberately introduce a hazard - e.g a large plastic bag tied to the hedge and see what happens on the ground
 
I think your ideas are good. How about a bit of desensitisation as well, such as putting loads and loads of 'scary' objects around the school to get his confidence up. Also leading him over scary stuff like plastic sheeting. It will take time and prehaps start this when he knows you but im sure you'll get there. Its until he knows that things aren't scary and that he won't get beaten up then he'll start ok.

Hope all goes well
grin.gif
 
Oops, sorry posted to quickly! Try just putting 'scary' things (ie. plastic bags) and stuff dotted about, like leaving plastic sheeting in the menage and walking him past and things.
 
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Owner now thinking of trying to hack it out on ACP!!


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Personally i'd agree with this, why not hack it out on a bit of ACP!
Sounds safest all round.
 
Ah good ideas guy - def a good idea to introduce him to 'scary' things in the school. Also good idea to lead out but i would have to get someone else to do that as personally im too small and too nervy on the ground to deal with a horse that big. Though with someone else bigger present def a good idea also! Will mention both those things!
What sort of groundwork would you suggest i do?
 
If it was mine I would re -break it. Go back to basics with lungeing and voice commands (should only take a couple of days if its ok doing everything else). Then long rein it, probably for several hours a day. Take it everywhere (I have been known to long rein up the verge of main road) it is ever going to be expected to go.
Personally, I wouldnt entertain giving an equine or human lead - thats defeating the object. It is not going to have a lead for its whole life so make your expectations clear from the start.
It will take a bit of time, and a few battles to start with (im not meaning hit it - last thing it needs), but you will be surprised at how quick its confidence will grow once it trusts you.
 
I would only lead it from another horse if you can hack out without crossing roads - it is inevitabe you are going to have to let go at one point, you do not want a loose horse running on roads.

I think Cl_aires suggestion is a good place to start but I would do it on the long rein. You can build it up nicely from there. The other good suggest is be thinking of a route you can build up on, first day do 100m then 200m then 300m - these little successes are really good for all involved. Before you know it you can be go much father, and further and further and by summer you will be out all day!
 
I'd also - when you do try to ride him out - put on a combination bit - e.g. a double bridle - that is 'nice' when teh horse is nice (and won't overpull if it tries to go up) but has sufficient brakes to be brought into effect if/when needed.

The double bridle is a much neglected bridle and should be used more - it gives horses a choice.
 
I think there are some really good suggestions in your replies, and you had some good ideas too. I think ACP and a mix the above sounds the safest. I personally dont like leading bigger horses on the road from foot, but should be ok from another horse, or like you said, have someone lead you from the floor with a horse next to you and infront too if poss. Try and choose a really quiet road and make it a short and sweet experience. Good Luck
 
Long reinging would be a good place to start and i would also recommend the acp have done that and works well! What is it he is scared of? Whats he like at shows etc? Is it just hacking he has a problem with?
 
From what i can gather it is just hacking he has a problem with as he has been out competing all summer unaffiliated with another rider.
All your replies have been excellent and so useful thank you but could anyone reccommend any groundwork i could do one on one with the horse? Trust building etc.
 
ground work - lots of poles, lead between - then anchor a plastic bag under one end of a pair of poles

similarly - walk between a pair of jumps wings - then tie a bag to one wing

feather duster makes a nice hazard as well ;-))
 
I too would get it long reining. I used to go miles with one horse that was difficult and it really helped. Not great if you have v busy roads but otherwise teaches them to go forward on their own and will help no end. Don't ride it out hacking until you have done several weeks long reining by all means get it's confidence ridden in the school.

A great advantage of long reining you will get very fit!
 
Personally I wouldnt go for the ACP route with someone mounted, horses react differently to ACP and your safety is paramount. Starting from the ground first is ideal, as well as desensitising, had a similar horse and we long reined for hours on farm tracks and bridlepaths, this helped get it over napping and spinning. This does require someone with confidence tho, he will pick up on your insecurities very quickly and use fully to his advantage so prob best to find someone experienced to help you. Above all take your time, don't rush and if something puts you back to square one be patient enough to start the process all over again.
 
I think join up is a good place to start and then long reining to build up the bond between you both.

Agree with vic that taking another horse/person is defeating the object. What about boxing him somewhere with no road work and start him off like that?
 
Longreining is fab for this sort of problem. Apart from that, build his trust up in company first and then try going it alone
 
I also have had severe problems with hacking my horse, due to no particular reason (I have owned my horse all her life and nothing has ever happened to cause the problems). I have tried all of the above and more and nothing has ever worked. Some horses are unhackable to the point where they have no regard for their own or your life. In which case it is safer to just give up and accept the horse will not get to enjoy the countryside.
This is just to say that if nothing works with your new horse, it does not mean you have failed in any way,as i'm sure other people can't hack their horses either for whatever reason!
 
You can do it on a single lunge - that's how we had to do it with Ty - just make sure you're using the same hand/body signals and it does work. Once you've established join up, unclip him and walk in front of him, making him stop etc.....
 
If the horse is happy at a show, then perhaps go to the shows where he can do a class, then hack out around the grounds of the show (if it is big enough) or on the roads nearby (providing they are not full of lorries). You need to establish what it is that the horse gets worried about (prior to panicking about being beaten). You will need to establish some sort of trust with the horse before it can trust you whilst hacking out. If the horse really hates hacking out, then why is the owner persevering with trying to get it out? Perhaps it would be better to box it out somewhere once a week and have a proper hack on bridleways and not roads?
 
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From what i can gather it is just hacking he has a problem with as he has been out competing all summer unaffiliated with another rider.

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Have you thought about hunting? If he is good at shows etc and hacking is his prob hunting with a group of horses may just take his mind off it! Worked for horse i had that was bad in traffic!
 
Excellent ideas all of you
Stimpy - will def try join up on the lunge - never thought of that before!
icemaiden - it hasnt been hunted but could perhaps work will suggest this

Def agree with everyone that i have to build up this horses trust before i even think about hacking it - will be a real challenge
 
i was sold a horse which 'wouldn't hack out' my friend managed to hack him but like yours he spun and bolted when scared. she reassured him lots which seemed to help but his problems ran a lot deeper. we think he had been beaten too but was totally nuts and would rear and strike when being asked to do things he didnt want to. (like going to his field) be careful as may be more dangerous for person holding the lunge than for you riding him. maybe he'd go better in company of old horse?
 
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