I need your help please re manners on the ground

[Louby]

My lovely young mare can be flighty, shes much better than she was and 95% of the time is fantastic to handle but she can get upset over the most silly thing and thats when Im struggling.
She's been injured and we've done a lot inhand for her rehabilitation, shes fab the majority of the time but if she gets upset she loses the plot, gets really strong and has no respect of my personal space and comes in to me and I just cant get her out of my space. An elbow in her shoulder does nothing, in desperation Ive dug my thumb in her, sorry if anyone thinks thats wrong but she can almost wipe me out when she loses the plot, she has actually struck out at me when Ive done this or its done nothing. I use the be nice halter, purely as a friend recommended it when we were having issues walking her when she was on box rest, its been a life saver. Someone recommended twirling the end of my leadrope at her, it does nothing. She understands me sending her away, backwards, halts when I stop, goes forwards when I do etc but when she loses it, everything goes out of the window.
I appreciate she will have her moments but my shoulders aching tonight from trying to get her away from me!
Any suggestions please?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Is it because she is trying to rush but the halter brings her round into you, rather than slowing her down? If so, you could try holding a schooling whip in front of her to block her rushing forwards, without bringing her into you.

 

[AmyMay]

Pop a bridle on her. You’ll have much more control.

 

[milliepops]

Pop a bridle on her. You’ll have much more control.

This
I have one that I only lead out in a bridle or occasionally chifney. She's strong and flighty and its just safer and easier to pop a bridle on. 99% of the time she's fine in a halter but the way I look at it is why even leave that 1% chance open

 

[Tonto_]

Try a bridle or a chifney.
I have to use a chifney on my loan horse, if he's got it in I use a rope on the chifney, one on a halter and don't even need to touch the chifney rope, if he's in just a halter he knows he's stronger and f***s off

 

[Louby]

Thank you for your replies, I tried the be nice as I had much more control than a bridle tbh, she really was fresh when on box rest and I was really struggling, I was amazed with the difference and despite being really sceptical about them, it made walking her doable. Its not holding her, its her coming in to me constantly, I shove her away but shes on top of me again. Maybe it is what you said Pearlsasinger, thank you. I can hold her back with the halter fine but she just doesnt respect my space and is on top of me. On a good day she walks like an angel.
Blooming Mares!!! I sat on her on Friday for the first time in 5 mths and she didnt put a foot wrong lol, then today she almost wiped me out a few times!

 

[be positive]

If you push into her she will push back and is far heavier than you, I would push her away by using the headcollar to remove her head from your space rather than her body, it needs careful timing but as she starts to come into you use a sharp tug on the rope until she steps away and then make her back up a few more steps until you invite her forward again, a few times being very clear should help and even if you have to be a bit forceful it is better than waving ropes at her or starting a pushing game that she will win, once they have lost the plot you need to get them back working with you as quickly as possible so use the moves she knows to your advantage, a vocal aid can also help if you are consistent that can get them focused back on the handler.

 

[Queenbee]

Put a second lead rein on her, run it around her outside shoulder over her withers and take up the slack. To begin with it was the only way I could lead my mare... it worked wonders, completely stopped her falling in on me.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

You say she has "struck out" at you; there is therefore an issue for your personal safety. I assume you are wearing appropriate gear to protect yourself like hat & body protector??

You need to be safe, and for this reason I would strongly suggest that you get a professional to help you with this filly at the earliest opportunity.

Stay safe.

 

[Red-1]

I call it a 'bouncy boundary' if they push at you and you push back. Once a boundary is moveable then they will have to constantly check it to see where it is now? And now? And now?

If the horse was barging into me and striking out, I would seem to be a lone voice in saying not only to have a bridle and long rope, but also a short whip. I would set a mark in my head as to where the horse can come to, and help the horse set up for success by showing them be boundary, but every time the horse crossed the boundary they would run into the short whip.

If they did not realise that this was the extent of their boundary then the short whip would sting. Tap Tap Tap, only as stingy as necessary to get a response to stop and be outside the boundary.

It is very important not to chase them back beyond the boundary, the boundary (an imaginary line) must stay exactly the same. If the boundary stays in the same place, and it is unpleasant to cross, then it does not take long for them to realise that hey, best stay here then.

I am not talking overarm whacks or anything. It is for a sharp tap and repeat until they move back across the boundary. It should appear to them as if they are doing it to themselves, so no anger or reaction from the handler, apart from a 'back' command.

These days people seem to shy away from correction, but for a horse who started by pushing into you and who now strikes, it is for your safety to keep that boundary. with NO anger. It is more with a "Oh, did something happen when you stepped across the boundary, never mind, let's just keep walking." It should appear to the horse that he is teaching himself a lesson rather than you teaching the lesson, you appear detached from the process.

 

[JillA]

Try her on magnesium oxide for a couple of weeks. If she is over reacting and appears to be running on adrenaline it could well ne a magnesium deficiency and it is fairly common. If she is no better after a couple of weeks that wasn't the problem, but horses aren't likely to waste a lot of energy for no good reason.

And if you spend your time getting more and more tough with her you will just add fer to the mix. But Mark Rashid demonstrated a technique for ensuring they don't invade your space:-

First of all decide what your space consists of - if you don't know how can your horse? For me it is what I can reach with outstretched arm.
Then lead a few steps and with a rope between your two hands, block them and then back them up out of your space so they are following you respectfully. If your timing is good you won't need more than a few times doing that and they will get the hang of it.
And don't lead from the side - if you are in front that makes you a leader and them the follower - and that sets the relationship.
I have seen that have bolshy ignorant horses walking respectfully behind a handler more times than I can remember after only 7 or 8 times

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OP Please be very careful about following advice to lead the horse from in front, with a bargy horse that can be a recipe for disaster, in fact even with a well-mannered horse who is spooked it can end badly, with the handler getting run over.

 

[canteron]

I am currently horseless and have been doing some research on on- line training!!
In the absence of good help think you could do worse than look at the TRT method .... if you do it for just one month it’s only about £20 and the site is the best I have seen. What I particularly like is it tries to teach your horse calmness as a reaction to stress, which I think is a missing element from a lot of training and might be a more holistic approach for you to a generally calmer more confident horse?

 

[JillA]

OP Please be very careful about following advice to lead the horse from in front, with a bargy horse that can be a recipe for disaster, in fact even with a well-mannered horse who is spooked it can end badly, with the handler getting run over.

That isn't true - once a horse has learned to respect your space (and it does learn that very quickly) if it does spook it runs ROUND you rather than through you. I taught it to a 17hh heavy hunter who had been bred and raised by people who treated him as a cuddly toy so was the bargiest thing you would ever see, as well as numerous others more on their toes. It's training rather than forcing. OP if you are anywhere near North Shropshire I would happily come and train you and your horse.
I never lead a horse from the side - it has an open door in front of it to go where it likes subject to the lead rope. I know that is very different from conventional wisdom in this country but it works. And I am over 70 so can't cope with horses that run me over!

 

[Louby]

THanks so much for your replies. I was thinking about it last night and I do think when she gets strong I correct her, which then brings her more towards me. She is an angel 95% of the time, respectful, stops when I do, walks when I do, moves away etc, its when something stresses, frightens or excites her, it all goes out of the window, she loses the plot, her flight instinct takes over and I think because she cant run, she ends up in a tiz almost on me.
The striking out has only happened when I dug my thumb into her, as an attempt to get her out of my space. I do wear protection when I walk her after her nearly knocking my head off whilst on box rest! She is 5 yrs old now, has had a lot of time off sadly due to injury and has been an absolute star considering.
Last night I really struggled, the lane was narrow, barb wire on one side, trees and a drop on the other, horses had galloped up the path below us, she could hear them but not see them, she got stressed, I checked her, she ended up facing me and I struggled to safely get her back the right way without her going in the wire, this happened again and again, not helped with off road bikes roaring past below further up too . Once we got to a safer wider bit we did a bit of ground work, sending her backwards, sidewards etc and she started to listen to me. I had no chance earlier on.

 

[J&S]

Last night sounds like a dicey situation for any horse, let alone yours. I would try to "set up for success" as has been mentioned by not putting her and you into such tight corners (metaphorically). Stay within comfort zones to get her confidence in you/you in her back. You can quietly add a little extra in on what seems a good day at a good time.

 

[Louby]

Last night sounds like a dicey situation for any horse, let alone yours. I would try to "set up for success" as has been mentioned by not putting her and you into such tight corners (metaphorically). Stay within comfort zones to get her confidence in you/you in her back. You can quietly add a little extra in on what seems a good day at a good time.

Thank you, your right, its really difficult as I have no choice, turn left up a lane leading onto a busy road, turn right down a country lane but it gets narrow. We can drop down onto the bridleways but the path down isnt wide enough to walk and lead, fine when you are onboard. I cant risk being run over leading her down lol although I have long reined her up it. I have to admit its difficult unless I have someone with me to assist crossing the busy road. My pet hate is walking to a dead end and having to turn back, I prefer circular routes but its impossible unless I cross the road, which leads on to miles of off road hacking.
Im supposed to be walking her for 20 mins a day as part of her rehabilitation, I can ride her in walk now but tbh Im glad I wasnt on board last night lol.

 

[J&S]

A real catch 22 situation then. Rehabilitation isn't fun at the best of times I do realise. You need a buddy, even a non riding pal to see you accross the road and be with you for moral support! Sorry, Devon is a long way from Manchester.

 

[Alibear]

As per RED-1, who I need to write us a book please
To make this super easy for you and crystal clear. Set your boundary and set it there permanently, so if you're hanging hay nets, mucking out, just in the stable with her etc it exists then too. She cannot move into you past that boundary line ever.
Sorry that may sound harsh but its not its actually really fair and really clear. If you can make it always set and never immovable, she'll pick it up in no time and be happier as she has an easy to achieve set rule. With the in hand work it sounds like you've installed a backup cue so use that to move her back to the right side of boundary and always use it , in every situation.
Do the work on this whilst she's calm, keep it consistent and it will stick in panic situations too.

From last nights fun you could also do with working on stand and move your haunches (turn on the forehand in hand) you can train turn on the haunches. I suggest some lessons with someone who does in hand work. That's not the easiest thing to find but it makes all the difference. Good luck.

 

[Louby]

Thank you all for your replies, Im sorry I havent replied to you all individually but I have read all your comments and taken it all on board. I moved to a very small yard after she got injured as my old yard couldnt provide what she needed to get better, it meant leaving all my friends which was hard but I couldnt see a way forward. Its been a really difficult few months, Ive wanted to through the towel in more than once but my non horsey hubby has helped me so much, he helps us across the road as often as he can, walks with us etc. My girl is great in traffic but sadly the traffic isnt always great to us!!! so I darent risk going it alone yet.
Tonight we walked again, I carried a whip, to give her a gentle prod on the shoulder if she started but she was good tonight lol, a couple of opinionated head tosses but I corrected her, also did some stop start move over etc. She definately needs to learn her boundaries and Im on it. Its so easy to let slip as she is usually really good but I do need to treat her like a horse and not my baby lol.
Thanks again

 

[Mucking out - still]

We went through the same thing with both of ours at an old yard. We (huby & me) weren't happy at that yard and our boys turned into monsters to bring in & out from the field. We moved yards and have not had a problem since. Yes, boundaries need to be mutually agreed but I also know that listening to our horses was very informative!! Yours does sound a pretty horrible walk! Good luck and hope some of the ideas here might help.