I no-long trust my judgement.

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Nailed

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Ted's lame, for a change, and I thought it was possibly Navicular.

Since he did his tendon in May he has been unshod for a couple of reasons.

a) to give his hooves a break from being puctured every four weeks.
b) as every injury he has ever had which I have had him has been caused by him pulling a shoe off.
c) money issues, but this less than the other two reasons.

Anyway I've just spoken to my farrier and he seems to think it could be navicular but is more likely that he is foot sore as his soles are on the floor and he has soft sole (Which is all very probable) and has suggested bar shoes and silicone. and bless him, is charging me half price (as he knows full well, that I know what he gets bar shoes and silicon for! lol)

The thing is, in my head I know that this will stop Ted's footyness but it is making me worry even more about him injuring himself.. Catch 22 and my heads buggered now.

Lou x
 
Just a thought - following your and others' good advice to me the other week about my mare, I've been feeding her arnica for the past 7 days and she is finally seeming like a normal comfortable barefoot horse. I think she'd got very bruised feet (both when she was still shod and once she'd had them removed) and this is finally resolving.

Might be worth a try? Of course, your horse may be different to mine - her feet haven't yet achieved the concave soles of the established barefoot horse, but they're not hideously flat.

She also gets biotin, sunflower oil and Pro Feet Ointment applied every few days.
 
Thanks for that orange. His feet are typical TB feet, very flat, very soft.

To be honest I know in my head that he would need shoes, he's just not designed to cope.

Full.. that wasnt really helpful.. in the ideal world he would be x-rayed.. but as we dont live in that.. do me a favour? dont ridicule me

Lou x
 
I'm not ridiculing you at all. It wasnt intended to come across patronising or unhelpful and I am sorry if it did.

We all look at these things differently but I stand by what I said- to me if you think your horse has navicular surely it makes sense to find out before you put bar shoes & pads on (which in the long run will add up- even half price). Its treating the symptoms not knowing the cause. If it is just sensitive soles you are dealing with there may be other options.

I hope he feels better soon whatever you decide
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[ QUOTE ]
ill trim him myself.. but i wont go near him with a naill.. a) illegal.. b) id lame him cause hes mine lol
please reassue me cots

lou x

[/ QUOTE ]

Stupid question alert here (so please bear with me) - is it really illegal to shoe your own horse???
 
Ahh this is kind of a stuck between a rock and a hard place situation isnt it!

If you think the farriers advice is correct and you trust him then you should go for that! If you have the money for the x-ray (which i know are expensive) you should mightly think about it before the shoes..... but its your call!

My teachers thoroughbred had the same problem as yours sounds to have, and he got bar shoes on, but it was a very short period between changes!
Just out of interest what is teh silicon for?

Best of luck! ((hugs)) and try not to stress too badly, I am sure it will work out!
 
The only way to really know what's wrong inside a horse's feet is an MRI scan, often even x-rays only tell a fraction of the story. You can think it's possibly whatever you like but the fact is, you really have no idea.

IMO your options are

1) spend a lot of money and find out.
2) stick bars shoes and sole guard on and see if the horse gets better.
3) Turn away lame or PTS (hopefully not this one yet!)

I'd go with 2) , but if he doesn't improve with remedial shoes, then you really are only left with the other 2.
 
The silicone is a sole guard, supports and cusions the sole.

X-rays are outta the question and pointless, as either way hes gonna end up in bar shoes.. just worryin about him loosing shoes and pulling tendons and the rest of it!

Lou x
 
ahh interesting, didn't know that!
well if at the end of the day he will get bar shoes, then get them on and see how they work!
Do you put over reach boots or anything on that might reduce the chance of him pulling them off himself when you turn him out? Just to put your mind at ease a bit?
 
I can recommend a good cheap suppliment that hardened Ollies feet his hoof quality is good .Its his hoof shape thats poor.You know you have my sympathies as we are going through same problems.My farrier told me to use overreach boots and Ollies barshoes are still intact.We are moving yards next week last attempt to keep him sound.The present yard has hardcore tracks and he needs to get away from anything that bruises his feet. Now my daughters angry with me for moving yards but the horse has to come first.
Re previous post about mri my vet has told me we will treat with adequan as soft tissue injury or joint will both benefit whatever a mri scan shows.Hope that help with your options.
 
I use the old fashion, cheap, pull on over reach boots.

The only thing i can think is, its gonnna be a bit easier to keep them on with the silicon as less suction.

Lou x
 
Yup, and the over reach boots will reduce the risk of him doing it himself! so thats another plus!
You could duck tape his feet if you became really terrified!? (I know it sounds silly but my horse had to do it when he first got shod after his abscess!) but thats like a mini extra thing!
 
X rays on thier own would be a waste of time ... I have seen alot of x rays which have shown changes on the navicular but the horse was not lame, and did not become lame, and then other horses which show very little, but on nerve block and further investigation (MRI/Scintigraphy) have navicular confirmed.
Lameness in the back third of the foot can be extremely complex and I am not sure sometimes how benefical it is (esp when you do not have extensive vet fee coverage) to get a fancy diagnosis so that you can put a name to the problem, when the treatments are often the same as your farrier has suggested...

I would def go with your farriers suggestions, (esp if you are getting a good price
tongue.gif
)... you could spend a fortune getting something diagnosed.. and guess what they would suggest.. bar shoes etc ! ...
It may not be that your horse has navicular, but if he has poor foot balance etc and this is creating problems, your farriers suggestions are the best way to go.

You may also find that if you perserve with the corrective shoeing, as his foot balance becomes better, that he no longer pulls his shoes off... often this is happening because the horse is taking shorter strides in front and predisposing to over reaching.
My horse has not navicular, however, he had very poor feet when I first got him.. collapsed heels, bad thrush, sheared heels.. plus was often over reaching in the field (with or without pulling the shoe off)
6 momths later, no lost shoes (despite being Egg bar type shoes - open at the toe) and no more over reaching. I have also found he is much much freer in his movement and his back is much more relaxed.

Sorry for rambling, but my advice would be go with what your farrier is saying .. persevere with it and keep postive
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i know that the bar shoes and silcone is the best thing to do.. Im concerned about the shoes nowt else, and him pulling them off.

Lucy.. do do that quite often lol.. love my duct tape!!!!

Nope not qualified cots.. couldnt afford the course..

Jo thanks for your time.

Lou x
 
[ QUOTE ]
I use the old fashion, cheap, pull on over reach boots.

The only thing i can think is, its gonnna be a bit easier to keep them on with the silicon as less suction.

Lou x

[/ QUOTE ]
I cant use them they give my horse rubs.Can recommend mark todd if you need strong velcro.Im sure you will find what suits him best. j x
 
Lou,
I'd go with the shoes. My TB has major issues keeping on sheos and yet I have him in natural balance with silicone pads (don't like heart bars and they aren't right for his issues) and he doesn't pull them off. If left too long between shoeing then the pad falls out but it doesn't take the shoe with it.
Mine does live in overreach boots but as I say the pads don't seem to make him anymore likely to pull shoes off. I would however suggest road nails as mine is more prone to slipping.
On a side note if he does go lame again and you can afford it I'd investigate. I know it is expensive but sadly we all assumed my horses problems were navicular/arthritis when in fact it was ligament damage (Xrays showed minor changes so we assumed it was this). He like yours has soft soles and low lying pedal bones so it was easy to assume this was the trouble. Saying that the shoes and pads did make a huge difference. I hoep they work for yours.
 
I would try normal shoes with pads first and if he comes sound it probably isn't navicular, just bruised soles. You could also go for a medical plate and put eucluptus (sp) oil under it.
 
my thoughts are pretty much the same as GermanyJo's.
I have a TB with much the same symptoms. Came up lame in near fore but once nerve blocked showed bilaterally.
No sign of navicular changes & unable to afford further tests.
He had incredibly flat feet with collapsed heels. Vet decided on remedial shoeing. Within 3 weeks he was almost sound - the difference in his movement was incredible!
At this point he is on a low dosage of bute just in case really & is back in full work. He will stay in these natural balance type shoes for life now.
At this stage while he seems ok nothing more will be done.
I would certainly give the shoes a try & go from there.
 
Diesel, gonna go for the bars shoes as he needs the extra heel support either way. But if it was that it was any other horse unshod and needing sole protection then i would do as you are suggesting.

Doris, natural wear pattern shoes do benefit ted but he does need to extra heel support.. just hate the thoughtof him pulling shoes off and doing some damage to him self.. (For a change!)

Lou x
 
Nailed has said before that she is not a qualified farrier. However, Lou, you do know what you are talking about when it comes to shoeing. You know your farrier is right, so just go with him. Good luck.
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well try not to think about it being ted with this problem

Its my horse.... fred, with the problem you have described.
He needs extra heel support, flat soled, lame, prob not navicular etc etc

You are saying you would put the pads and bar shoes on to sort out the sensitive feet, and keep over reach boots on etc for reducing the chance of him pulling them off........

if this is right, then you are fine, and ted will be too!
smile.gif

Have faith in yourself, its always harder doing it for your horse, but as stated you obv know what your on about, trust it!
 
Have you considered Epona shoes, I use them for both my boys and they have worked wonders, can thoroughly recommend them and they give excellent frog and sole support. If you have a look at the website they have some excellent case studies on there complete with X-rays. http://www.eponashoe.com/
 
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