I post this link with a heavy heart

Cuffey

Cuffey

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No doubt there will be arguments for and against the actions of welfare groups

Perhaps all ponies running in natural conditions should be removed?

Friends who saw a clip of these ponies on Border TV said they were in good condition, the vet in attendance was happy with their condition, one in the herd needed pts

This man's reason for living was taken away so he took his own life
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/cumbri...ound-hanged-1.737226?referrerPath=home/2.1962
 
Absolutely fecking disgusting!

So many people in this country harp on about horses being kept in a 'natural state' and when someone tries to do that then some do-gooder who probably knows nothing about horses has involved the RSPCA who know even less. I wonder if the RSPCA officers even bothered to speak to the local equine vets?
 
I think its very sad but the charities involved are all experienced and I think there has to be some reason for ponies to be removed. Normally the authorities advise people about welfare issues before taking action so maybe there is more to this.

If the charities were wanting to prevent mass indiscriminate breeding, for wild or otherwise stock, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.

As for the suicide that is very sad for his family but his own choice. I personally cannot imagine any circumstances in which I would put my family through that.
( maybe I'm not sympathetic today cos I was delayed for three hours on a train over the weekend because of a jumper ).
 
Its very sad that someone took their own life but seeing as no-one here knows the actual facts then its a bit soon to be slagging off the charities involved (which include more than the RSPCA) or is this just another excuse for RSPCA bashing? We all know vets have proclaimed horses to be OK when many of us would absolutely disagree. Quite honestly people have been through a lot worse than that and not taken their own lives - the guy probably had other problems that we don't know about.
 
sussexbythesea said:
Its very sad that someone took their own life but seeing as no-one here knows the actual facts then its a bit soon to be slagging off the charities involved (which include more than the RSPCA) or is this just another excuse for RSPCA bashing? We all know vets have proclaimed horses to be OK when many of us would absolutely disagree. Quite honestly people have been through a lot worse than that and not taken their own lives - the guy probably had other problems that we don't know about.
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Agree with this whole-heartedly, but I still think the situation sounds like it warranted extremely sensitive handling. The fact that the poor chap has taken his own life only underlines this.

Locking him up while they removed the ponies with no prior warning seems heartless to me. It does sound like the situation had got a bit out of control, but it's terribly sad that it had to end up the way it did.
 
No comment about the RSPCA there must have been a reason for them to take them away - I know they have made mistakes in the past, but haven't we all?
Such a shame as they've been there for so long, but condolences to the family :(
 
LHS said:
If the charities were wanting to prevent mass indiscriminate breeding, for wild or otherwise stock, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.
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At least the man took some responsibility and had the stallions gelded. This is almost always the case with the RSPCA. They would rather seize instead of working with the individuals. I saw the programme about the Australian RSPCA when they were called to a house where an elderly owner had quite a number of dogs and a cat. Most were in poor condition and the smaller dogs were kept in cages. Instead of removing the animals, they improved the living conditions, gave the animals the necessary veterinary treatment, and donated food. The woman got to keep her pets and the RSPCA were satisfied they were being looked after properly. It was a win/win situation for all involved. Surely something similar could have been done in this situation.
 
Comments on the Telegraph site are already filling with condolences for the family. What a tragedy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...217/Did-the-RSPCA-drive-a-man-to-suicide.html


Did the RSPCA drive a man to suicide?

Alan Brough commited suicide after the RSPCA took his herd of Shetland ponies, writes Christopher Booker.


Several times in recent years I have reported on the change which has come over one of Britain’s richest charities, the RSPCA. Its officials too often seem bent on harrying genuine animal lovers, luridly misrepresenting alleged cases of cruelty in order to win the publicity which will keep funds rolling in, to the tune of some £115 million a year.

Last week I was alerted to a particularly chilling case by the SHG (Self Help Group, online at the-shg.org), set up to advise animal owners on RSPCA persecution. It involved Alan Brough, a 68-year-old retired builder from Newbiggin near the Cumbrian fells. He bought Shetland ponies 30 years ago for his daughters, who in time outgrew them. Mr Brough released them onto the nearby moorland of Caldbeck Fell where, thanks to his continued care – which included rising at five o’clock each morning to bring them hay – they flourished and became a herd. Eventually the picturesque sight of 90 wild ponies became something of a tourist attraction and a distinctive feature of that northern corner of the Lake District.

Eleven days ago, at the instigation of the RSPCA, Mr Brough was arrested at 8.30am and held in custody at Carlisle police station while officials of the charity put the ponies onto lorries bound for RSPCA-approved sanctuaries. When Mr Brough was released at 3pm and discovered what had happened, he was, according to his family, “trance-like”. He drove to a nearby church, then to a riverbank, where some time later his 18-year-old grand-daughter found him. He had hanged himself.

The RSPCA issued a statement: “We are saddened by what has happened, and our thoughts are with Mr Brough’s family.” They offered to return the ponies to his widow, but then insisted on keeping them, on the grounds that – although there was no evidence of ill-treatment – the animals might suffer sometime in the future. Mr Brough was cremated on Friday, The RSPCA were wise to stay away from his funeral.
 
Over2You said:
At least the man took some responsibility and had the stallions gelded.
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He did not have them gelded

In an effort to control numbers, a castration programme was started by landowners, The Lake District National Park Authority, two years ago. Mr Brough co-operated with the programme
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Which I take as he agreed to let someone else pay
 
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The article also states it was not only the RSPCA that removed the ponies
Redwings Horse Sanctuary, World Horse Welfare, the British Horse Society and Horse World were involved in Wednesday’s operation and they are housing the ponies in undisclosed locations. Mr Brough’s family have not been told where they are.

A statement from the RSPCA and other horse charities involved in Wednesday’s operation said: “We are saddened by what has happened and our thoughts are with Mr Brough’s family at this time.”

Paragon Veterinary Group has castrated many of the ponies over the last two years.
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Also agree with this

Originally Posted by sussexbythesea
Its very sad that someone took their own life but seeing as no-one here knows the actual facts then its a bit soon to be slagging off the charities involved (which include more than the RSPCA) or is this just another excuse for RSPCA bashing? We all know vets have proclaimed horses to be OK when many of us would absolutely disagree. Quite honestly people have been through a lot worse than that and not taken their own lives - the guy probably had other problems that we don't know about.
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The man also kept lions at his house as he wanted to start a zoo!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
 
WishfulThinker said:
His family should Sue(I am usually not for suing) the RSPCA as their actions caused his death. Or at least his reason for killing himself, so they made him commit a crime - Suicide.
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Sorry to be pedantic but suicide is not a crime, although assisting it is.

There has to be more to this than is being reported. Sad as it is, and I am not a huge fan of the RSPCA as an organisation, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The RSPCA did not make the man in question do anything, we all make choices, and this appears to have been the choice he took, without going into mental health territory. The family, as human nature does, wants to blame somebody and I am sorry that they have been put in that position.

I agree with sussexbythe sea and LHS on this but don't know how to multi quote.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over2You
At least the man took some responsibility and had the stallions gelded.

Haha said:
He did not have them gelded
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Quote:
In an effort to control numbers, a castration programme was started by landowners, The Lake District National Park Authority, two years ago. Mr Brough co-operated with the programme

Haha said:
Which I take as he agreed to let someone else pay
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So, therefore, he DID have them gelded as I STATED in my post. Why say I was wrong, then quote something which CONFIRMED I was right?
 
Well I find it incredibly sad and my thoughts go to his family who must have been distraught.

In this situation some more tact and diplomacy could certainly have been used.

Then you hear of cases where the people involved are regularly reported and no active measures are taken until it is too late? I just don't 'get' it.
 
This is purely annecdotal, but has a similar feel, an elderly woman had a number of horses, as she became less mobile she found ways of caring for the horses that were somewhat unconventional, but the horses were ok. The RSPCA became involved and eventually removed the horses, after months of harassment, the very large house and land then became a 'countrey hotel' now owned by one of the people who were so keen to get all the agencies, including animal charities, involved. I hasve often wondered if the subsequent owner was a benefactor of the RSPCA.
 
You hear more and more stories daily about the rspca and their under hand tactics. Bullying, coercing witnesses and vets. Ok, this man probably was a little unstable but treating him like a first class criminal pushed him over the edge. Its disgusting behaviour and defanetly not the only time its happened.
 
This is the statement given to the Cumberland News last Thursday (29 July 2010) on behalf of the RSPCA, Redwings Horse Sanctuary, World Horse Welfare, the British Horse Society and HorseWorld Trust:

"The RSPCA has this week (Monday 26 July 2010) met with Mrs Brough and one of her daughters who have expressed a desire to have all of the 102 ponies removed from Caldbeck Common, Uldale Common and Mr Brough’s stables returned to them.

"The RSPCA and leading equine charities Redwings Horse Sanctuary, World Horse Welfare, the British Horse Society and HorseWorld Trust removed the ponies with the assistance of Cumbria Constabulary on veterinary advice because of a genuine and grave concern for their welfare. Two of the animals were in such poor condition that a veterinary surgeon decided that the only appropriate course of action was euthanasia.

"All of the animals removed are in places of safety and the majority are being housed with the charities involved where they are being provided with the utmost care. Many of the ponies require extensive and indeed expensive veterinary treatment which has been neglected in some cases for many years.

"We have not been able to secure sufficient reassurance that the needs of 102 animals can be met to the standard required by law if they were returned.

"The RSPCA is awaiting specific veterinary advice and reports as to the appropriateness or otherwise of returning a small number of animals provided all the charities involved can be satisfied that the animals will be properly cared for and their needs met. That is an ongoing process and it may take some time to consider the animals’ suitability before any returns can be considered.

"If this isn’t possible the RSPCA may find it necessary to bring the matter before a court to secure ownership of the ponies and thereby secure their wellbeing.

"We appreciate that the local community are divided in their response to last week’s events. We express our deepest condolences to Mr Brough’s family and we are sure that the sooner the future wellbeing of these animals can be resolved the better for all concerned."

Leanne Plumtree, RSPCA north regional press officer
 
I can understand the view that he was out of his depth and that something needed to be done, however, holding him at a police station to the extent he possibly thought the worst of this situation was unnecessary.
 
'– although there was no evidence of ill-treatment – the animals might suffer sometime in the future.'

Just about sums up the RSPCA in all this.....nobody can possibly look after an animal like they do.....yeah right.

Heavy handed in the extreme.

It doesnt actually matter if the ponies are in decent condition or not, the way this was does STINKS.
 
Over2You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Over2You
At least the man took some responsibility and had the stallions gelded.




Quote:
In an effort to control numbers, a castration programme was started by landowners, The Lake District National Park Authority, two years ago. Mr Brough co-operated with the programme
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He co-operated which normally means he had no choice than to agree to let them do this. This to me answers your next question? Yes?


So, therefore, he DID have them gelded as I STATED in my post. Why say I was wrong, then quote something which CONFIRMED I was right?
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Haha said:
He co-operated which normally means he had no choice than to agree to let them do this. This to me answers your next question? Yes?
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I have to say that I find your deffinition of co-operation a little odd, I think you are thinking of coertion (sp), rather than co-operation
 
Hey, LeanneRSPCA, please could you let me know when the RSPCA are going to act on a situation that has been going on in Kent, near Brands Hatch, for many years? The local RSPCA will know where I mean, they have been called out often enough. I believe the field is about 270 acres, and it's full of horses and ponies in varying conditions, said to be destined for the meat market. It is also full of ragwort. Every year, normally in the winter but not always, horses and ponies die in this field. I was present when a foal was found hanging in the barbed wire one summer, it must have been about 8 years ago, that had to be put to sleep. In the winter they starve to death hidden in the trees. A dead foal laid in sight of the local primary school for several days before the council removed it. The RSPCA and other welfare agencies are well aware of this situation, and have been for years. Every winter they allow themselves to be fobbed off by a couple of round bales being dropped in (between maybe 50 equines), and every summer they turn a blind eye to the horses grazing in a sea of yellow ragwort.
Nobody can argue that these horses and ponies are not being kept to "the standard required by the law", and yet year after year they struggle on in these conditions. When the gullible public respond to your television campaigns they think that you are the charity that would save animals in these sad situations, and yet in this case you fail year after year. Is it a case of deal with the easy targets (like the case here) and look away when you are faced with more challenging members of the public?
 
Tinypony said:
Hey, LeanneRSPCA, please could you let me know when the RSPCA are going to act on a situation that has been going on in Kent, near Brands Hatch, for many years? The local RSPCA will know where I mean, they have been called out often enough. I believe the field is about 270 acres, and it's full of horses and ponies in varying conditions, said to be destined for the meat market. It is also full of ragwort. Every year, normally in the winter but not always, horses and ponies die in this field. I was present when a foal was found hanging in the barbed wire one summer, it must have been about 8 years ago, that had to be put to sleep. In the winter they starve to death hidden in the trees. A dead foal laid in sight of the local primary school for several days before the council removed it. The RSPCA and other welfare agencies are well aware of this situation, and have been for years. Every winter they allow themselves to be fobbed off by a couple of round bales being dropped in (between maybe 50 equines), and every summer they turn a blind eye to the horses grazing in a sea of yellow ragwort.
Nobody can argue that these horses and ponies are not being kept to "the standard required by the law", and yet year after year they struggle on in these conditions. When the gullible public respond to your television campaigns they think that you are the charity that would save animals in these sad situations, and yet in this case you fail year after year. Is it a case of deal with the easy targets (like the case here) and look away when you are faced with more challenging members of the public?
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Tinypony I think you have sumed it up beautifully in your last sentence ;)
 
I have nothing good to say about the RSPCA. They don't deal with the real issues - I was stuck on a roundabout in Nottingham city centre with a duck and 8 duckilngs - no car as was staying in a hotel and they didnt want to know.

The will NEVER have a penny of my money.

And as for animal welfare, the RSPCA put down healty animals and castrate cats and dogs at 8 weeks old. Criminal.
 
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