I really didn't want to have to... :(

Queenbee

Queenbee

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Ben is having his first set of fronts on tomorrow, he has been barefoot up till now, but with the work and terrain he is constantly breaking off bits of hoof, up till now this has been pretty manageable, his hinds are perfect, never anything to them other than perfect wear, but his fronts are taking a bit of a hammering, on one he has a section halfway down which doesn't seem to be causing an issue yet but may well do later, it's seems like an area where an abscess has blown and would coincide with the time he had his last abscess, although we it was draining from the bottom and he came sound again but he then went lame and I suspect this was the reason, an abscess that burst at the top.

Anyhow, we went for a lovely hack yesterday, nothing too bad terrain wise, and he came back with a whacking great big chunk ripped off his outer hoof wall, what made it even worse was that there was a stone wedged in the crack which I suspect added leverage, the split goes about 1 1/2 inches, he is sound, and I suspect for the most part he will get away with it but when the farrier comes tomorrow and cuts the broken bit out there will be a fairly significant chunk of his hoof missing.

I know that, we could probably get away with not shoeing and slowly letting it grow out over time, but I would be worried about further damaging the area, more bits cracking off and the workload from any jumping he may do, so have decided to take the plunge and have fronts on, at least until the damage is grown out.

So for a while at least I will be hearing the clippity clip of shoes :/. However, I must do what I feel is best, and for the time being this feels right to me.
 
That's a shame , by your own admission tho he's had almost 3/4 weeks off then intensive work for last two and half weeks , could it not just be a transition period of his hooves readjusting to the work load increasing again ? Breezes feet went a bit like it a couple months ago , I started feeding her a vit and mineral supplement and have added linseed and can see a difference already
 
No, it's not just that, his fronts always chip and break away, his backs never do so I doubt it's much of a vitamin and mineral issue, if it was winter or wet ground outside then I could put it down to transitional period but he is out on the grazing at night as you know and it's plenty hard enough to negate this being down to a transitional period, it's just bad luck pure and simple, it was a simple split that probably wouldn't have been an issue but for the fact that a stone the size of a marble got wedged in the crack and kept making more damage, he didn't falter once on his feet whilst we were hacking and none of us noticed until I got back to the yard and saw it. If you take a peek at him next time you're at the yard you will see what I'm talking about its huge, I'm not going to risk further damage while this grows out.
 
The picture you show looks like hoof wall separation, where the outer hoof wall splits from the inner. That kind of damage is not caused only by wear, it shows poor hoof quality. This can be a genetic condition in Connemara ponies, but in all the other horses I have had with it, it has been a dietary issue. It seems mainly to affect the front feet. In my experience it can be corrected by a low sugar, high fibre diet with correct mineral balancing.

It takes months to grow out and your decision to shoe may be the right one, but if you intend to go barefoot again in future, I definitely think you have a dietary issue to address first.
 
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Rosie's Front feet crack and chip all the time. She has 2 massive chunks missing on both insides. Im not worried at all by them as I know it is just her feet wearing down to a better shape now that her work has increased all the old long bits are breaking off. They may look horrible but I do run a rasp over them to get rid of any rough bits.
 
Hi all, farrier been and a little bit of an update... Things are not as dire as they seem, by the time the farrier had worked his magic the chunk looked more of a chink ;) and he suggests continuing barefoot, luckily we were due a trim, so most of the damage was cut away during the process of the trim. He is really happy with the general strength and integrity of the hoof, and says that on the whole there is a lot of improvement, with regards to the hoof wall as there was separation during the winter and ive been making sure he gets regular rolls on his hooves and this seems to have really helped. However, i had let this slide and this latest trim was overdue, he thinks this was a contributory factor. He still gets a truck load of grit in his white line which doesnt help matters so advice given is just to be vigilant, keep this clear, keep up regular trims and rasp away the edges in between, but the white line is getting tighter overall. Feed wise, he is out on grass at night, its never fertilised with anything and he isnt a grass guzzler, he also has one net of haylage (the really dry type) during the day, he isnt having any feed as he doesnt need it. Although most of the time he does have a salt lick. I am happy to give him a handful of feed which is normally unmolassed grass chaff, to add a supplement to and currently have half a tub of equimins tip top supplement which i could add to his feed.

However, my concern is this, his hinds dont break or chip, they wear as they should, and the farrier overall says they are nice sturdy hooves, if it were a dietary issue more than anything surely you would expect to see similar damage to the hinds.

I suppose the main thing is that the damage is not as bad as first thought, the farrier is happy overall and although there is still room for improvement, he does see improvement, and he sees no need for shoes. :)
 
It is absolutely normal for front feet to show problems more than hind ones. I've had five horses with hoof wall separation, none of them showed it on the back feet and all of them were resolved with a diet change.
 
I can certainly add a supplement, but my point is he is on grass that isnt rich, is never fertilised and one net of haylage (the type that is virtually as dry as hay) a day. In this past year he has probably had less than ten carrots, 1/2 a pack of mints (and only because he won them) and three apples. In winter he has a token feed of grass chaff and speedie beet at night only, and if he needs it linseed meal. There is no sugar to cut out, the only thing i could do is add a supplement.
 
If he can get masses of grit in his white line then it does sound like he is missing out on something mineral wise.
Frank's have become super tight since adding extra magnesium and phosphorous to the equimins advanced complete he was already getting (based on grazing analysis). It's not very scientific but it does seem to work!
 
I have hill wild flower meadow, but it's high in iron and manganese and I've supplemented copper for years to balance it. But even so, I recently got a horse who was not doing well, with rippled, shallow feet and it took me a while to realise that we are also short of selenium and that he is particularly sensitive to it.

Unless you have a full mineral analysis of your grazing and forage, you don't know what mineral imbalance you may have, but your horse's feet are, in my opinion, trying to tell you that you've got one somewhere. I would either test, or put the horse on Pro Hoof or Forage Plus.

Your farrier sounds like a gem.
 
He is pretty cool. He is horsey too which helps a lot and he lives down the road. The other day he was loaded up and off to a show and we had a horse who had punched a nail into an artery (didnt know it was in an artery at the time) called him and he pulled the horse box into the yard, dealt with it, poulticed etc... So she was seen within minutes of the event by him and within an hr by vet. Dont get me wrong, i have nothing wrong with a farrier expressing a genuine opinion that a horse needs shoes, but promoting the opposite... Thats cool people to me! Out of interest, how much is an analysis, and then what would be the course of action? Balancing it myself or are there companies who would make a bespoke supplement according to the results? Would pro earth do that, or is it just as well to reach for pro earth from the start?
 
No, during the winter he had equimins tip top which is a pretty good broad spectrum supplement, but in the summer he is on a salt lick, haylage and grass. i still have half a tub of it so will pop him on that and use it up before getting something else.
 
Queenbee said:
He is pretty cool. He is horsey too which helps a lot and he lives down the road. The other day he was loaded up and off to a show and we had a horse who had punched a nail into an artery (didnt know it was in an artery at the time) called him and he pulled the horse box into the yard, dealt with it, poulticed etc... So she was seen within minutes of the event by him and within an hr by vet. Dont get me wrong, i have nothing wrong with a farrier expressing a genuine opinion that a horse needs shoes, but promoting the opposite... Thats cool people to me! Out of interest, how much is an analysis, and then what would be the course of action? Balancing it myself or are there companies who would make a bespoke supplement according to the results? Would pro earth do that, or is it just as well to reach for pro earth from the start?
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An artery? The horse would have died long before the hour went by if it were an artery punctured by a nail.. ;-)
 
No it wouldnt moomin, both arteries and veins come in a variety of sizes, arteries carry oxygenated blood away from the heart and all over the body so it us under more pressure and appears bright red, whereas veins carry blood towards the heart, from all over the body.

When the nail ws pulled out, blood spurted out as if from a hosepipe, it was bright red, but we put a pressure dressing on it, which is what anyone should do when a horse is bleeding out from an arterial bleedBy the time the vet had arrived the blood had pretty much stopped. It is perfectly easy to stop a bleed from an artery if you know how, now a significant artery nearer to the heart... That would be a bit more tricky due to the pressure being exerted from the heart and yes, the result would have been a dead horse, but we are talking a nail in the hoof... Much further away from the heart, but an artery no less. Confirmed by the colour and the pressure of the blood coming out, the location of the nail hole, the farrier and the vet, who actually witnessed the injury.
 
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Queenbee said:
No it wouldnt moomin, both arteries and veins come in a variety of sizes, arteries carry oxygenated blood away from the heart, so it us under more pressure and appears bright red. When the nail ws pulled out, blood spurted out as if from a hosepipe, it was bright red, but we put a pressure dressing on it, which is what anyone should do when a horse is bleeding out. By the time the vet had arrived the blood had pretty much stopped. It is perfectly easy to stop a bleed from an artery if you know how, now an artery near to the heart... That would be a bit more tricky due to the pressure being exerted from the heart, but we are talking a nail in the hoof... Much further away from the heart, but an artery no less. Confirmed by the colour and the pressure of the blood coming out, the location of the nail hole, the farrier and the vet, who actually witnessed the injury.
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I'm fully aware of the function of arteries.

I misread your post anyhow - I didn't realise you meant an artery in the foot.

Back to the original post anyway, I am not sure why people feel the need to justify putting shoes on their horse, it's gone barefoot crazy these days. I am sure you will do what is right by Ben, as you always do.
 
In which case I wouldn't go through the faff of analysing atm and use a good low iron mineral supp like the pro hoof one and see what happens especially as your farrier doesn't think he needs shoes currently and he is comfy enough just needs a bit better hoof wall.
 
Lol Moomin, thank you :). Haha, i did wonder, i had visions of you imagining a horse with a spike impaled into its chest ;) i actually think it was rather lucky with the mare, as the force of the blood flow out would have sluiced the wound, then the vet did it again when he arrived and jabbed Nd buted her, now she has gone past her five day rest, no infection and back out in the field... Could have easily gone another way with such an injury.

I think its weird but i almost felt more like i had to justify it to myself. See, my initial move to bf was by accident, i wasnt riding for a while so took ebonys shoes off, (i regularly did this giving her a shoeing break most years) then one day i wanted a short hack and she was fine... And we built up from there, never needing shoes again, so when ben came into work, we stayed without, especially because we werent exactly riding miles as he was/is a baby. So i really came into this as a shoer, who just happened to take shoes off and never put them back on again... But over time, whilst ive not become anti with a capitol 'A', i have found myself slightly cringing at the thought of shoes and nails for ben, but never to the point where i wouldn't if it were needed, as i thought it may be today. It is something I'm going to have to face though as he will be affiliated in the future for jumping and possibly eventing and i believe its a rule requirement. However we do it in the future, he will have shoe holidays as my old girl did. But certainly over time my views on the matter have changed, but more by default than design
 
Thanks ester, by the way, if anyone is reading this and doesnt already know, pro hoof have a fb competition running for six months supply :)
 
I thinks that how it works though sometimes, I'd be doing things a bit differently if/when I get a younger horse again (not wishing F off this earth too quick though!)
 
cptrayes said:
It is absolutely normal for front feet to show problems more than hind ones. I've had five horses with hoof wall separation, none of them showed it on the back feet and all of them were resolved with a diet change.
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just wondering what you fed before and after (looking for ideas) :)
 
victoria1980x said:
just wondering what you fed before and after (looking for ideas) :)
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They all came to me with it, none had mineral balancing, all probably had too much grass.

My regime is in during the day in summer, soaked forage, minerals and yeast in low sugar feed, plenty of sweat-making work and grazing on unfertilized hill meadow. Meadow haylage and in overnight in winter, otherwise the same feed.
 
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I've had my bf pony on pro hoof for years and it wasn't until I changed his hi fi lite chaff to dengie heathly hooves about six months ago my farrier has noticed a difference. So I stopped the pro hoof and it hasn't affected his hooves at all.
 
Nudibranch said:
Queenbee have you tried boots instead of having to shoe as a temporary measure?
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Hi sorry, only just seen this, ^^^ if you take a peek up there, you will see that I was in a flap and a panic over nothing! When the farrier came and trimmed him he told me he was fine and actually recommended he stay as he is, just with more regular trims as he is growing so much faster. But the time he had finished trimming, you could barely notice the damage. He also said that since he last saw him he found a positive difference in his white line and wants me to keep the white line clear as he does have a tendency to get stones in there... But all in all a very positive session and Ben is still without shoes :)

Slightlyconfused said:
I've had my bf pony on pro hoof for years and it wasn't until I changed his hi fi lite chaff to dengie heathly hooves about six months ago my farrier has noticed a difference. So I stopped the pro hoof and it hasn't affected his hooves at all.
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Have to say, I can't feed hi fi or anything with alfalfa (don't know what's in HH).. Something I found out last winter, I was feeding him a handful of Alfa oil a day in the summer and he was fine, but when he went up to a scoop twice a day in the winter, he was footy within a few days. Once I stopped it, he went back to normal quickly. He is now on an unmolassed grass chaff.
 
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cptrayes said:
It is absolutely normal for front feet to show problems more than hind ones. I've had five horses with hoof wall separation, none of them showed it on the back feet and all of them were resolved with a diet change.
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That's interesting, when I took my boy bf his backs were amazing and perfectly shaped but his fronts just collapsed and were terrible and I had to have shoes put back on his fronts after months of struggling. We never did get to the bottom of why his fronts were so bad :( I keep wanting to try bf again in front but don't want to lame my horse again!
 
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