I started my horse in the wrong bit and now can't move on!

ycbm said:
Mine's in a verbindend (actually the Jeffries copy) as well, to get the tongue room. When engaged, they port, it's a very clever engineering fudge that gets over the no port rule!

I'm asking for collection with half halts, but when his head gets near the vertical, he's cutting off his air supply and starts to gurgle. He's half Clydesdale.
Click to expand...

Could I please ask how you're achieving collection (and to what degree) with just checks on the rein? I can't seem to achieve any unless I do at the very least a SI or turn on the hocks off the track to get the best lift/stretch over the poll. If I tried to collect her through half-halts I would get over-bending/twisting immediately.

I can't say that my old boy who was also a clyde x could ever collect that way either. Must be a technique thing. However, I suppose in collected work you would want the lift out of the whither, muscles at the top of the neck to really stretch, poll to be the highest point and the throat angle to be open or else it'll be too closed.

I did use a port with him for a very long time though and indeed he went the best ever in a pelham, but for competition reasons I was determined to crack the snaffle thing!
 
Well I'm very lucky because this horse has no overbend reaction at all. Quite the reverse, his default evasion is to lift his head and run forwards. So all I do is hold with my seat, ask for forward, hold with my seat, ask for forward. He can get heavy on the forehand, so then I lift my hands and he brings up his shoulders. Sometimes I wiggle my fingers to encourage him not to set on the bit. Ferdi Eilberg taught me that during a friend's lesson.

We can get a few minutes of a beautiful light, sat trot before he tires.

I can make the trot 'bigger' in terms of lift, but medium trot is evading is at the moment, I can't seem to find a way to get him to understand what I need. Or maybe he just can't do it yet.
 
I would try the myler comfort snaffle the low porter myler with cheeks is a good bit and worth a go .
On the horse not accepting the metal I would leave the horse in the stable wearing the bit in an old head piece or Brandon strap with a brow band or eat bucket type food wearing the bit .
Never put the metal bit cold when I was training we where trained to put the bits in our clothes until they were warm .and we used honey on the mouth piece of horses who were struggling a bit with the bitting .
You can use hard honey wrapped in muslim and fixed to the bit when the horse is getting used to the bit it lasts longer than just coating the metal .
You can also give the horse one of those sticky lickit and let it have a lick for a few minutes.
You won't solve this quickly a little everyday is the way forward .
 
I had this exact problem with one of my ponies, he had been bitted with his wolf teeth in and is incredibly fussy about what bits he deems himself as able to 'cope' with

I started with the happy mouth straight bar like you but he leaned on this, I then changed it for a hanging cheek straight bar happy mouth which was better then to a single joint happy mouth with cheeks

he goes really well in the single joint, I know they aren't ideal but I am not about to start arguing with the pony on this

(he didn't have the room in his mouth for the double jointed happy mouth)
 
Wagtail said:
No, she's not. It's a well known fact that horses that are thick through the gullet struggle with a more advanced outline as it constricts their breathing.
Click to expand...

Yes, 'tis true - and it's not just the windpipe either: a horse with a narrow gullet will also have problems with the saliver glands being crushed between the cheek and the neck - cobs often have this problem; just look at some photos and you will see the gland bulging in a banana shape just behind the cheek. Very common with draught-y types which were never designed to work in a "riding" shape.
 
Last edited:
Just a left field option, what about switching from a happy mouth straight bar to a nathe straight bar? They're more flexible and tapered to the middle so give more of a independent on each side effect. You can get them with full cheeks too. Not cheap but very useful for some horses.
 
Tnavas said:
Not at all, the heavier breeds are thick through the jowl, flexion is hard and compresses the windpipe.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should ask what everyone's definition of flexion is...

A horse that really engages the back to power the legs will naturally lift between the whither and stretch the top line and the poll will flex. I love going to ploughing matches to watch these beasts work and I don't ever see any of them struggling to breathe whilst producing a great degree of flexion...
 
I use the Nathe flexi mouth on mine (it's also plastic) and have no problems with bend - it's definitely easier to separate aids than the happy mouth as it is thinner and more bendy.
 
Many heavy types go well in a mullen mouth pelham, inc. mine who hacks, hunts, jumps in this https://www.littlefieldsfarm.com/sh...tCgAQ0SOmDbm5lqGE8OfS7ea54xfJqm58oBoC27zw_wcB and is very light - mouthed and responsive. A lovely mouth piece for fat tongues too. Don't be put off with the 'pelhams are strong bits' either. I ride with light hands because I'm able to and my horse doesn't appreciate jointed bits. I must add that I use two reins but then hacking I simply knot the curb on her neck if I feel she's particularly laid back.
Doesn't help you as a transitioning suggestion although worth contemplating as a final bitting answer?
 
tallyho! said:
Maybe I should ask what everyone's definition of flexion is...

A horse that really engages the back to power the legs will naturally lift between the whither and stretch the top line and the poll will flex. I love going to ploughing matches to watch these beasts work and I don't ever see any of them struggling to breathe whilst producing a great degree of flexion...
Click to expand...

Horses in draught pull with their heads and necks lowered, not raised as they are asked to do when carrying a rider.
 
TandD said:
I don't think I explained well enough what I am wanting a bit with a joint, or at least to move on from her current one.
Yes she currently is in happy mouth straightbar with the bobble bits, I didn't know that it wasn't bd legal so do need to get another bit for her. She's currently got full cheek sides which I'd like to keep and dont really want a loose ring.
She hasn't got a fat tongue but has a big soft mouth and I wouldn't want to put a thin bit in as i can see that being uncomfortable and to harsh on her. She's one of the nicest mouthed horses I know, very soft and light

I find that with the straightbar what you do with one side the other side does the opposite, (and if you dont allow it to then it causes a block) as it is not jointed and independent each side. I realise that i am not explaining this to well, but i know what I'm trying to achieve, was just looking for suggestions to try.
Thank you for your help
Click to expand...

A loose ring is usually better for a horse with a big tongue as the mouth easily moves up .
Ignore this clearly I now can't read as well as type .
 
QB there seems to be more bombers on the allowed list now, the one I linked is down as permitted too

However we have established that neither them or the mylers go large enough.

Interesting that others think similarly to me re. The happy mouth v. nathe situation.

Welshd frank loves a single joint so can't be all bad ;)
 
tallyho! said:
Maybe I should ask what everyone's definition of flexion is...

A horse that really engages the back to power the legs will naturally lift between the whither and stretch the top line and the poll will flex. I love going to ploughing matches to watch these beasts work and I don't ever see any of them struggling to breathe whilst producing a great degree of flexion...
Click to expand...

They are generally carrying their heads much lower when ploughing than my Clyde is when doing collected trot. The lower the head the bigger the angle at the gullet with the face still vertical.
 
OP I think a Myler mullen mouth could suit your horse. Although it's not jointed as such, it has a piece in the middle which rotates so you can use each side independently. The curve of the mouthpiece is quite pronounced too so it's very comfy for the horse and allows lots of room for the tongue. It's the only dressage legal bit my very fussy in the mouth horse is happy in and trust me I've tried them all! I have it with the hanging cheek (and would recommend it to others) but they do it with a full cheek too. I don't know if they go as big a s 6 1/2" but I have it in a 6" and it comes up a bit bigger than most 6".

https://www.horsebitbank.com/full-cheek-mullen-barrel-271.phtml
 
Cortez said:
Horses in draught pull with their heads and necks lowered, not raised as they are asked to do when carrying a rider.
Click to expand...

They do, I can see that to varying degrees. How much is difference that a rider makes in this case? I have ridden and driven my clyde x and I can't see a huge amount of difference in his neck set in both scenarios. If I raised his head carriage too much, he would have to hollow to give me the height.

ycbm said:
They are generally carrying their heads much lower when ploughing than my Clyde is when doing collected trot. The lower the head the bigger the angle at the gullet with the face still vertical.
Click to expand...

Yes I certainly see that. So, I imagine that when a draught horse is doing a collected trot, the rider is not asking for the degree of head carriage a warmblood can do given the natural conformation (although looking in some competitions, I bet a clyde can do much better than a wb!! :D).. because they can still round and lift for collection even with a slightly lower head carriage - it's all relative to the anatomy. I'm in agreement though that if a bit restricts and blocks then another that allows the roundness is ideal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top