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AutumnDays

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But I just need to vocalise and see what others think. 16yo gelding. Bought 3 years ago as a companion, was told he had navicular changes and could no longer keep up with what they wanted to do with him. Turns out he had a few more issues than just that, as he'd been started early and hard until he broke at 13. He was field sound, and didn't need daily medication to be comfortable, barefoot rehab, and was loving life as a pampered pasture potato.
These last few weeks he is lame on the leg that his vet records say had the most marked navicular changes. I think the mud is making it flare, even though I have a large mud mat area, bedded field shelter, paths and they are in the driest paddock to try alleviate this for all of us. I don't have stables. If he spends a long time at the bale feeder, his leg swells. If he moves, it decreases, but he's lame in walk. Not hopping, but you can see it. He rests on the toe when standing. I've been tubbing/poulticing in case of abscess and no dice. He is on a double dose of NoBute to try and help him be comfortable. He is a nightmare to get meds into, and no amount of feed disguising it will fool him, he was dosed and pushed for years so I think he refined the skill of sniffing it out. If I manage to syringe it once, I can't get near him for a few days after, plus, if he needs medication to be field sound, is it fair? He seems happy in himself otherwise, but I know they are stoic animals, he can lie down, roll and get up fine, he plays bitey face with his gelding friend and follows the little mare around. He's keen for tea time, and seeks out interaction. Is there anything else anyone can think of that I can try/discuss with vet before doing anything final? I wouldn't push him through loads of invasive diagnostics, he's not a ridden horse, I am his soft landing so he doesn't need to be kept going, but I don't want to write him off completely if he can still have a comfy and happy life. Thank you for reading
 
I'm ok with bute for pampered pet status but if it isn't helping or he won't eat it then i suppose it's whether anything else will help (bozmerix, CBD etc) or if the pain is too far advanced - in which case a peaceful goodbye is always the best option.

Definitely sure no abscess though? It seems to be the weather for them
 
SEL said:
I'm ok with bute for pampered pet status but if it isn't helping or he won't eat it then i suppose it's whether anything else will help (bozmerix, CBD etc) or if the pain is too far advanced - in which case a peaceful goodbye is always the best option.

Definitely sure no abscess though? It seems to be the weather for them
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As sure as I can be, I can't see anything indicating where one could be, and I've had nothing appear with tubbing or poultice. Farrier is out on Thursday so I'll get him to do a check too, in case I can't see the wood for the trees. Is Bute ok long term? I hear so many mixed things. Any tips on fooling a drug detection horse?!
 
I'm happy buting a field ornament to be comfy, I don't see it as any different to taking my naproxen daily except I have to work on mine but pampered pony can chill. I give her a little bit of D&H veteran mix and cup of balancer with her bute and soak with apple juice to hide tastes and smells but to be honest she's not bad to get drugs into but does stop eating sometimes due to the prascend and I've found the apple juice got us over this.
 
Dopeydapple said:
I'm happy buting a field ornament to be comfy, I don't see it as any different to taking my naproxen daily except I have to work on mine but pampered pony can chill. I give her a little bit of D&H veteran mix and cup of balancer with her bute and soak with apple juice to hide tastes and smells but to be honest she's not bad to get drugs into but does stop eating sometimes due to the prascend and I've found the apple juice got us over this.
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Thank you ❤️
 
You could try danilon instead of bute as it's sometimes more palatable. I've had 2 who were towards the end of their life on low dose bute for years. I've heard that it can cause problems with the stomach/liver/kidneys long term but if that happens then it's the end but I wouldn't go straight to euthanasia just in case the medication didn't agree with my horse, I'd give it a go.

It also depends on how far you want to go with investigations and treatment, potentially a steroid injection might help for a few months and then you can see if things are OK in better weather.
 
Thanks @nutjob and @IrishMilo. I've just got off the phone to the vets, waiting a call back to see what he can have/what I can do for him. He's on milk thistle for liver support anyway, they all are this time of year, so hopefully that will help him with any other medications added. I didn't want to sound quick to write him off, I guess I am preparing for the worst and hoping for the best! He is a lovely, if somewhat grumpy boy, after years of being treated like a machine he's happy being a horse with the others broken misfits, I'd like him to have a few more years of that yet.
 
For me that would cross the line if additional pain killers can’t be easily administered or don’t help but obviously everyone has slightly different lines.

F did 23-27 on boswellia but then did need bute to keep him happy in himself. He was also on permanent milk thistle due to a previous liver flare at 24ish, obviously that made the bute a bit of a risk but it was actually fine. If it hadn’t have been fine the decision would have been made

Def start with a vet visit and see where you’re at
 
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My fussy thing will accept both paracetamol or equioxx in his feed. I had to change his feed to ensure he’ll eat it but he does generally now eat his feed (I’ve got fingers crossed I’m not jinxing things!) he will not accept Bute in any format and is generally suspicious of all feed (for no good reason in his case- I think he just enjoys challenging me!) I’ve recently put his on devils claw (Naf liquid version) and appears to find this acceptable if I put it in his favourite feed as well. I’m hoping to reduce his paracetamol by using devils claw as not keen on long term meds but obviously need him comfortable. 🤞
 
I retired a young TB mare due to changes to the navicular (found out after purchase similar to you - started young, ridden hard). She was rehabbed once to heal the tendons that had effectively frayed on the surface of the navicular and then retired to turn out barefoot as a companion. I did say if she ever came up lame again due to the navicular I wouldn’t rehab a second time as it was a long process of confined resting followed by hand walking to allow the structures to “stretch out” again before turning out. She, like yours wouldn’t take medication in her feed. She did tweak it once so I gave her a 48hr box rest as a “chance” & she came sound again very quickly so got away with that one, but had she not shown marked improvement quickly, that would’ve been the limit. What I’m trying to get at is - I think with these sorts of grumbling issues that can go downhill gradually it’s hard to pick a “point”, which is why I set a quantifiable limit - if she ever needed more than short rest to see an improvement the damage was more than a tweak and the rehab more than I was willing to put her through again. She passed of a horrific colic in the end, it was very sad not to be able to give her the dignified end I had planned for her. Whatever decision you make you’re clearly thinking hard on it, so it won’t be the wrong one x
 
Thanks for all your replies, it's much appreciated. Someone else mentioned equioxx tablets, I'll see what the vet thinks. They also gave me some Spillers complete senior care mix, which I put my last sachet of Bute in... Gone! Maybe a fluke, but he ate it! So I'll try some of that for sneaking stuff... The others were most envious, so it must be tasty stuff. All are prancing about in the wind, so even though he's lame he's still feeling playful. @ester the toe rest was what prompted me to post this thread. The mud here is that slippy, tweaking sort, if it's not just that he's pulled himself a bit funny, I think that's the line. Just checked again to see if I can see any sort of abscess indicators, and I can't, or he's not giving anything away. But the mare had one grumbling that wasn't spotted until it burst last year too, so it could be like that?
Now I need pain relief for a headache!
 
Whilst it’s easy and natural to jump to ‘oh it’s that bad leg must be navicular playing up’, there are lots of other things it could be especially if it’s come on pretty suddenly!

So it really depends on where you are overall with this horse. I’d never condem anyone from pts of a retired horse if they weren’t in the position to manage them any more (for whatever reason). Equally in this case I think there are a few reasonable steps to do if you would rather keep the horse going. Proper access check, vet exam to see if any obvious cause, X-ray to check navicular progression etc. daily Bute perhaps. Only if/when that fails then it might be more pts for welfare consideration time.
 
I have a very similar 18 year old gelding; our coblet was retired earlier this year following unsuccessful surgery to his annular ligaments, he basically never came sound enough to withstand ridden work at anything above a gentle walk, although is happy enough to have an inhand moooch round the block for a couple of miles, proving he gets some snack breaks!
I've had a few times when I've thought "is it time" but keep him comfy enough living out on 1/2 danilon/day and a handful of paracetamol when he needs additional support but he'll only take those in spillers senior mash as it tastes of apple! Is that worth a go? or equally there would be no shame in PTS either if he seems uncomfortable. Its so tough isn't it, so sending hugs x
 
AutumnDays said:
Yes, it's a front hoof
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It wouldn't surprise me if he had an abscess in his heal which is giving him grief. Can you hot poultice daily until the farrier comes on thursday and get him to have a good look? a few days of poultice will give you a nice clean foot to pick out any tiny holes and the horn/flesh will be softer so easier for any nasties to make it to the surface.

fingers crossed it being the same foot as the navicular is just a coincidence.
 
My Saus is buted as a field pet and I’m happy with that. They don’t know they’re on meds, all they know is that they’re more comfortable for mooching about, and occasionally shredding up the ground, in the field. Obviously, that also applies to other painkillers.

With Saus, if she ever comes up with something that needs a hospital visit or intensive rehab, she’ll have double Bute, one last lovely sunny day on lush pasture, tons of carrots, and off into the sunset. Quite honestly, I don’t think she’ll ever leave the field alive, except for a gentle mooch about.
 
@HaplessHorse that's the same scenario for this lad I think.
Everyone thinking it could be an abscess, I am still bearing that in mind too... I have been down and cleaned his foot out, I still can't see anything, but I squeezed and poked his heel, and he said ouchie, so I'm guessing there is something there. I'll get my farrier to have a look if nothing happens before then, he's ace at spying things like teeny tiny holes!
I'm hoping it's something as simply resolved as that, but in the meantime this thread has been helpful to address another potential issue in his future regardless. I sincerely thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences
 
Update: I found it! Abscess hidden on the back of the heel by the central succulus. Gave his foot a proper scrub and dry, daylight and head torch, and spotted it. Went nuclear and made a epsom salt paste, with a hot lintex over it, and result! Still haven't heard back from the vet, but hopefully this is what's been the issue and I won't have to worry for a while
 
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