I think it is time to call it a day

Don't take this the wrong way but this horse needs to have some fun. You are continually making excuses why you can't hack her. Every horse needs to hack how can you expect her to give her all if all you do is have lessons and take her in the school? How will she ever improve on the roads if you don't get her out there and give her some confidence? You have a lorry so why don't you box her up and take her to some safe off road hacking if you won't hack her from home? Take her for a gallop and pop her over a log or two. The poor thing sounds like shes bored stiff and is throwing her toys out the pram in retaliation. Sorry if Ive caused offence.
 
I am in now ways knowledgable or an expert, but from reading your posts Jet Set, the thing that strikes me is that YOU need to start having more fun...it sounds like the joy of riding has gone for you, which will without doubt pass on to her. I would prescribe giving her a week or two off, finding yourself a silly fun pony and charging around like a nutter for a few weeks
smile.gif
...forget worrying about your position and how you ride, just have some fun and come back refreshed. You sound like life is busy and a bit stressful for you at the moment and you need riding to put a smile on your face instead of just being hard work.

I defo agree with the suggestions of taking her for a gallop if you can, but I honestly think if you can relax and enjoy yourself a bit more, and take the pressure off yourself, then things might improve.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Don't take this the wrong way but this horse needs to have some fun. You are continually making excuses why you can't hack her. Every horse needs to hack how can you expect her to give her all if all you do is have lessons and take her in the school? How will she ever improve on the roads if you don't get her out there and give her some confidence? You have a lorry so why don't you box her up and take her to some safe off road hacking if you won't hack her from home?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of horses out there doing a good job competitively that are not hacks. Many can be a danger to themselves, their riders and third parties, particularly on the roads if asked to plod along though the wide world if they aren't suited to it. I think thats a very general comment to make. As long as horses are well cared for and can have some turnout, if they don't hack, so what?
 
Yes but Grace obviously isn't happy though is she? Since when did hacking = plodding down the road? I was going to suggest she took her hunting but thought JetSet would have had a fit at that.
 
[ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of horses out there doing a good job competitively that are not hacks.

[/ QUOTE ] But the problem with this horse is that she is NOT doing a good job competitively at the moment. If the approach of always working in the school doesn't seem to be working, then surely it is time to try a different approach. I can quite understand not wanting to take a difficult horse out on the roads, but as others have suggested, there is the option of boxing up and taking her to some off-road hacking or some gallops to give her some variety.

(Plus, in general terms, I do think it is helpful for competition horses to learn to hack if possible. It encourages them to become braver in strange surroundings and learn to trust their riders, plus if injury curtails their competitive career, then the horse that can hack is more likely to find another home rather than face euthanasia.)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't care less what anybody else thinks. To be honest besides Andy, there is only me and maybe a couple of others who jump, the rest dont, so no-one will be laughing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto this - I *don't* jump coloured poles and was talked into it over there. Ended up on the floor, laughing all the while! No-one will apy attention or think anything of you jumping "small". Just beacuse Andy is doesn't mean the liveries have to!
 
I totally agree in the OP's case, she needs to take the pressure off and hacking might well help. I just took exception to the "every horse needs to hack". Maybe in an ideal world, but realistically there are some horses that aren't safe hacks. Should they be made to go out anyway putting everyone at risk, or stick to what they're good at? I also agree in the majority of cases hacking is good for horses, but it isn't necessary if its dangerous.
wink.gif
 
I agree that there are bound to be a few horses that are just too dangerous to hack, and if sensible attempts have been made to accustom them to hacking without success, then it seems foolish to persevere indefinitely if the horse is otherwise happy. Also, if such horses are in active competition work then they are likely to get out and about a lot to different venues, so are not confined to working in the same confined area every day as the OP's horse seems to be.

However, I often come across the attitude where people don't even attempt to accustom a young horse to hacking in the first place, 'because it destined to be a competition horse' and I think that is a short-sighted approach.
 
Thank you everyone for your comments... I have just sat and read them all through and wrote a few little notes down that people have suggested
smile.gif


I understand people saying all horses 'should' hack out, but the last time I hacked Grace on a road she nearly threw us both over a motorway bridge. I have tried working with her on this 'fear' including some help from Richard Maxwell. She will now tolerate cars and larger vehicles driving VERY slowly past her (I mean at a crawl) but anything more and the old reaction occurs and she is very dangerous. I am sorry, but no matter how pro a rider is, I would not ask them to hack my horse out for me. I am not prepared to put someone else at risk with my horse! As I have said, her reaction is not a small one to be worked through, Richard Maxwell has been outstanding with advice, but she will never accept faster traffic and where I am that is exactly what we have! Yes, some people slow down, but many do not no matter how many hand gestures (yes the correct ones) I do! She is not just a danger to me and her, but other road users. She reared up and ran backwards narrowly missing a car (thankfully he slammed on and reversed quickly!).

However, thank you Hollibobs, I would love to take you up on this offer! Let's do it
grin.gif
If there is somewhere near by that we can box to with off road, I would love to. I used to do this where I was before (due to the motorway bridge) and she is great once she is off the roads
wink.gif


I have given myself a talking to and we are going to start jumping once a week on my day off, no matter how small and pathetic they are
blush.gif


I am also putting her on TopSpec Calmer as she got herself in such a state last night that I think this is part of the problem... As Bossanova said (I think you are spot on by the way and have really made me think) this is perhaps because she IS trying but just not understanding what it is I am asking. Perhaps that is exactly the reason we are having these issues, because I then focus on trying to solve what is happening rather than moving on to something else to clarify what it is I want from her.

I know I cannot sell her, and no JM, this is not because I fear someone else would do a better job with her. I know there are a million people out there who would do a better job with her, I am by no means and expert and still have a lot to learn! But because she has undergone a lot in the past 11 months, and I do not want someone else taking that on plus the real issue is I love this mare to death
frown.gif
 
Sorry if I repeat.

But JS - what does this little horse do for fun?

Does she hack out, go for a blast, get to jump over some jumps?

What does she do where she can just let her hair down and enjoy herself, instead of train, train, train????
 
Sorry, I forgot to add...

Re. giving her a holiday I am planning on doing this come spring. Her breeder has offered to take her for a few weeks in Shropshire, as in this area there are no places which offer 24/7 turnout (if you read some posts of mine about my yearling you will see why). Unfortunately in the grim North West, we do not have the land to offer this. Even the studs bring in through the winter and barn the youngsters.

She is also due some sarcoid treatment too, so will have some time off during this too which I had already planned. She will get out for a few hours a day (with my other mare, not on her own) and chill out in her stable the rest of the time. OK, it is not 24 hour turnout, but it is the best I can offer her and the best place I can find for the turnout. Yes, the arenas are stunning where I am, but I can tell you my main motive for moving was the turnout that was offered.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if I repeat.

But JS - what does this little horse do for fun?

Does she hack out, go for a blast, get to jump over some jumps?

What does she do where she can just let her hair down and enjoy herself, instead of train, train, train????

[/ QUOTE ]

With me, not that much at the moment. She has a real blast in the field and she is genuinely happy in herself at the moment as she is eating well (with any stress she stops eating completely). When I ride her, say two out of the three training sessions I just work her long and low and don't pick her up at all. This includes really pushing her on down the long sides, almost at a gallop, in a light seat and she loves this.

I had been jumping her at my old yard, but since moving 2 weeks ago I have not jumped her because have felt rather silly going in and dropping all the jumps to 1/8 the height they are
smile.gif
However, I am going to put aside one day a week to jump her on my day off from this weekend.

She does not hack on the roads, but Hollibobs who is on the yard, has offered to take me over to somewhere nearby which we box to and then hack off road... which I am definitely taking her up on
smile.gif
 
Sounds like you have taken on board a lot of good suggestions and like you and Grace may have some fun now as well as all the serious stuff!
I think what Boss said hits the nail on the head- you know how ever much it feels like it- they DO NOT set out to make us want to give up, they are merely working with the instructions WE set out to them and sometimes they just <u>don't get it</u> ! (Or we don't make the instructions clear enough)
I try and live by a 'ignore the negative/reward the positive' moto which is difficult when they are being argumentative but they are not trying to break our hearts- they are mostly trying their hearts out for us
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
She does not hack on the roads, but Hollibobs who is on the yard, has offered to take me over to somewhere nearby which we box to and then hack off road... which I am definitely taking her up on

[/ QUOTE ]
Do it. Stop riding her in the school and just let her go out.

Do try hacking - with a really good babysitter (avoiding motorway bridges - even the most reliable of hacking horses can have issues with these
tongue.gif
).

Set yourself the challenge of not going near the school until Feb 1st. Compete her from the field.

Bet you notice a difference - and if you don't I'll buy her!
 
I'm not competing her at the moment, we have only been out twice since she came back into work and I decided a month ago to just concentrate on training her rather than competing her. She is not ready to compete, her head is not in the work enough and I also do not think she is strong enough to work at novice either. I had planned on looking for a competition some time near December to give us a lot of breathing time
smile.gif


The thing is, I need to keep her working if I am going to take her out with Hollibobs because she is a pretty hot headed mare in the saddle, and I want her to be as chilled as possible when we hack out so she can enjoy being out (does that make sense). I would hack her every day like this if I had the time, but with two others, a long commute there and working the hours I am at the moment, I am there in the dark at 6.30am and back at 6pm when it is going pretty dark (don't you just hate winter
frown.gif
). But I am going to follow Bossanova's advice when it comes to taking her in the school, try not to focus on the fact she is not into the contact, ask myself why she is not understanding my aids (I know I have something to do with it too, I am not pretending it is all her) and just work her long and low for a while and get her back with me
smile.gif
She is happy enough working long and low, really swings through her back and feels great... this is the reason I took her to the physio, it was only when I brought her 'up' that the arguments started.
 
I agree with everyone who has advised some work outside the school - my pony is pretty level headed but just last week started getting cross in the school as she hadn't had a good canter in a field for a few weeks and she's hacked (walk and trot) at least once a week!

[ QUOTE ]
She is happy enough working long and low, really swings through her back and feels great...

[/ QUOTE ]
My girl loves working like this too but my trainer insists that it is important for me to pick her up every session even if only for a little while. Of course if your trainers advocate a few whole sessions a week working in this way then of course continue but not if it’s just to avoid the problem. Some far more knowledgeable people than me can correct me but maybe her muscles are "stuck" in this lower position and it feels like too much hard work to work in a different outline hence the agro? Therefore make sure you do continue to try picking her up to help her muscles get used to both ways of working…?

The training process is hard for most (??!) of us - if it wasn't we'd all be out there getting 70+%! Rough patches are disheartening but should be expected and you should really try not to let them bother you so much!
laugh.gif
 
She had never really been ridden when I took her on loan, only lightly backed and then left to mature (at 4 she was 16.3hh and she is now 17.1hh). Her breeder is still very much in contact with me, and she has mainly done in hand work with her therefore I do not think this 'issue' would ever have arisen in the past because she genuinely is a complete sweetheart in hand.

A little update... I took her into the indoor today because the weather was just beastly and put up a teeny tiny cross pole. I warmed her up around the jump, making sure she was soft in my contact and then jumped it in trot and canter a few times. The first time her eyes were on boggles and she jumped from a stand still, but after that she did get the hang of things a little more
smile.gif


Following jumping her, I then picked her up and asked her to work in a more 'uphill' outline. OK, we still had moments where she threw her head right up in the air and had a real wobbler, but she felt forwards from my leg, I could gently tap her up with the whip to encourage her left hind under a little more (the one she finds most difficult... perhaps because this is the one that she injured) and we finished on a really good note.
 
See, if you are going to have a *fun* session, jumping in her case, then just jump - pop over it, hunt canter around, sure ask for connection, but nothing too dressagey, really define a difference for her and let her finish with a smile on her face with no pressure having been applied during that session - but TBH I know nothing about dressage training so feel free to ignore. Just remember, you do not have to achieve something brilliant every sesh
wink.gif
 
Oh no, I know that... but she is VERY green jumping so I have to make sure she is straight going into it as she is very wobbly indeed, so sort of schooled between it and then just picked her up for say 5 20m circles and asked for a bit more which she gave me without much fuss and then finished by trotting her long and low and she was really swinging over her back which I have not truly felt for a while
smile.gif
 
I would have just stuck with the jumping too. You don't want her to start associating it with doing stuff she doesn't enjoy. It doesn't matter if you only rode her for 15mins, she would have found it mentally hard as she would have been concentrating on the jumping
 
I wanted to see how she was feeling because if she was still feeling as strange to ride I was booking her back in with the surgeon on Monday first thing... He has seen her a few times since the operation, but I am very paranoid about her with what she has been through so would rather make the long journey just to be 100% sure.

As it was, she felt much better and I also changed her bit into the Myler 02 which she mouthed up on (she never ever mouths up). So I think I am going to continue with our little routine for a few weeks and just see how it goes. If I am in any doubt, we will be straight to the practice and see what is going on!

I tried just trotting her through some poles, but she just kept leaping over them, so I now know we need to do some pole work, and I have asked the SJ pro rider if he would mind taking her over some more complex jumps perhaps once a fortnight, which he is going to do.

But i could not have done the jumping without the flat work. I warm her up for a good 20 minutes before doing any jumping anyway because of her previous injuries, and that allowed me to get her straight and after our first few hairy moments, she would let me ride her straight into the jump rather than wingling around underneath me (which is a very strange feeling indeed).

They are not out today because of the amount of rain that has come down over the past few days, but I am going to try and get her out at the weekend with Han if the fields dry up a little.
 
I completely agree Sleepingdragon10, I agree that getting the pro rider to help with the jumping is good, but more complex when the horse is still so green?? If I have followed these posts properly, I thought the whole point of doing some jumping was to take the pressure off the horse, but then she was asked to go more uphill, so surely the end result was the same??!
 
I am sure she is physically fine, you are just a worrier.
wink.gif


Good on you for jumping her though. Can you not just warm her up off her back for say 20 mins with a light contact, pop her over the X a few times and then call it a day. Totally stress free, without worrying about contact etc etc.
smile.gif
 
By complex I meant some grid work to teach her how to jump... she has not done much and doesn't really know how to pick her legs up etc etc and over jumps a lot. I don't know enough by jumping to be able to teach her, I cannot see the stride very well so for us to be able to have more fun jumping (and yes, that includes perhaps some little jumps out on the Somerford Park farm ride) I would like to be a little more careful before taking her.

There is no reason she cannot do some grid work, physically she is perfect now and mentally I think the change will do her good. I am only going by what people on here suggested... I am not confident to jump her much more than what I did this morning (literally to my knee) and as I have already said, my own jumping skills lack ability. Before she went lame I had my old trainer jump her for me once a fortnight and she loved it. I know I cannot do the kind of things she did with her, therefore have asked for some help from someone who can. I do not expect her to be a 'professional show jumper', that is not the intention. But rather than just going at jumps gung ho (which I don't want to do when they are solid ones over at Somerford and crow Wood), I would like her to learn while she is having fun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top