I think it's very sad

Spudlet

Spudlet

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that in some breeds the show strain and the working strain are so far apart that a dog in 'show' condition couldn't do the job it was once bred for:( I'm thinking of a pic of a show cocker I saw that was trussed up in a coat and a snood over its ears just to go for a walk in the rain.

This is not against show strains though as I have one, and he WILL do the job the breed was designed for - with the aid of a haircut!

I just think it's sad how for some dogs, form has overtaken function:(
 
I agree, I think alot of dogs no longer look like they did years ago, for what they were bred to do.

I've got a working springer who doesn't work ha ha, I was told I woudn't be able to show her because of the colour of her eyes ! Don't care anyway, wasnt' going to show her.

Would the colour of her eyes stop working if I wanted to ? I think not she can still see and she is so brainy, she understands what I am saying

Its all these rules and what they should look like, I mean look at the dogs with all the wrinkles they can't breath anymore the way they've been bred

I saw that BBC documentary about it a while back, it was so annoying, some of the breeds looked nothing like they did originally
 
In fairness, most of the people I know who show dogs, (apart from GSDs) including coated breeds, DO let their dogs hoon and get wet and muddy, but would perhaps keep more of an eye on them in the weeks coming up to a big show.

For my own breed, I don't think being a dog of good overall structure/conformation who could win in the showring, and being a good working dog, are mutually exclusive.

Both sides of the German Shepherd world have lost their way IMO.
The showline people chasing their ideal black and red identikit dogs, racing along with their impressive side-gaits, embodied by the teachings of the Martin brothers in the 70s and 80s.
The working people, who have let the front end construction of the dogs, and physical sex characteristics slide. There are problems with ultra-sensitivity to diet and environment. There can be epilepsy and elbow dysplasia (more so than hip dysplasia) in some lines.

To this end the Universal Sieger in Austria in 2011 will aim to find the best dogs in terms of conformation and working ability and I hope to be there to see it.
Countries including those within GB are entitled to qualify and send their own dogs to compete.

I think it would surprise some people to think that these are ALL workingline dogs/studs from the past ten years who competed at the top of their game and at least two are also V rated for construction.

Javir has competed in both the World Schutzhund Championships and the World Sieger (breed show)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/450116.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/445826.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/478451.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/492746.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/500731.html

Breed standards are there for a reason and of course they are open to interpretation.
I bear two statements in mind from Captain Max von Stephanitz who created the breed just over 100 years ago (so I believe the breed is still a work in progress)
"Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim"
"No good dog is a bad color" (Especially when I am grumbling about whites, livers, blues being bred on purpose :p)

But at the end of the day I personally see our type of shows as a breed selection tool, not just a beauty contest - no health tests, wobbly hocks, missing teeth, nope, wouldn't breed from them and wouldn't promote that if I were judging myself, despite their overall 'beauty' or outline.
Light eyes and the height issue to me are a secondary issue to some others but I see why they are penalised - if that dog were to be bred from, then the problem would be passed down the generations.
But like I say, we show in a different way to some other breeds.

The working side is more open - like breed showing, you cannot compete to the highest levels without sufficient health tests but if your dog has light eyes, is a one-ball wonder or is pink with purple spots, as long as he can take down the helper, do a 2km track or retrieve a dumbbell over the A-frame, then happy days.

I don't show either of my dogs, although they are both of good general construction.
I know there are judges that my female would win under, her rear assembly has been commented on favourably by several people who judge, but that to me would not be the right thing to do in the best interests of the breed, because I can look at her and see she is not correct - most notably, in her character, which for me is the most important trait, after overall health, in a dog.

(Sorry, what a ramble!!!)
 
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I remember the interview on Crufts this year with the owner of the BoB sibe (the one where he attempted to climb up on the sofa with her, to the obvious bafflement of the interviewer and the casual indifference of the owner... :D) and she mentioned that he'd been working in harness until three weeks before the show. I don't understand how this is possible for some breeds, but not for others?
 
Well the GSD BoB is a Schutzhund III dog but apparently not being comfortable on slippy green carpet in an indoor arena means he can barely stand, according to the armchair experts :p

You've seen this guy before but he is my ideal dog - strong as anything, scores through the roof at working trials (but a pussycat off the field) and rated V (excellent) in the showring and at breed survey in Germany.
0091.jpg

P1020230.jpg
 
Oooh yes! We breed wonderful fox red labrador retrievers,based on Field Trial lines,they are bidable and athletic ..and that fantastic colour. Anyway,took three youngsters in for their big "make or break " day..hips and eyes testing. There, also, was a lab breeder with her wide as high short snouted dogs, very snooty.."hate the colour,don`t look like labradors". Everyone agreed it was such a good thing it was my husband that took them ,not me, however..I`m sure I`ll get my chance at another clinic.Something on the lines of "that thing`s mouth is too short to handle a bird softly...and it`s little stumpy legs could never jump a stock fence"

It is a shame there is usually a devision between working and show type in most breeds,if the show ones COULD work properly it would not be there.For my own,I intend to improve on their looks by importing semen from some American lines where the fox reds are often more dual purpose.
 
I wish more dual purpose labs were bred these days, it seems such a shame they are so few. I am pretty sure Barney could have worked with the right training, but as you say many show labs would not be capable these days.

I think in some breeds it is about form being placed over function - the full coated show cockers you see at Crufts would not, I'm sure, be able to work due to their heavy feathering being constantly entangled.
 
I really, really wish we'd gone over to the dark side years ago and worked our old bitch D, she had generations of herding lines behind her and was a real live wire, she would have been super. Oh well!
The lines she came from still exist and the kennel in Germany still breeds herding dogs (which also show to high levels) and I'm helping work a youngster who is very vaguely related to her so that will have to do!
 
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