I think I've been had :-(

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MrsB

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Hi there,

I have been riding for many many years, been a sharer etc. and after spending far too much money at a riding school, decided to buy my own horse. After trawling and searching high and low, I found, what I thought and was advertised as an "ideal first horse". I went and tried him, he was lovely, very quiet, nice to handle although a bit skinny, but the lady did say he lived out all through the winter. He also apparently had no vices and was a novice ride. So we agreed a price, got a 2 stage vetting and Boris (6 years old, 16.3 irish X) comes home with me and is on livery at a very experienced yard, with a variety of horses at all levels, from plodders to stallions and everything inbetween.

He came back on a Thursday and I then rode him on the Sunday to give him a chance to settle in. I had the saddler come out to him straight away, had his teeth done, back shoes on and also had the physio check over him before I rode him and all was good. He was a bit nappy, but let this go as it was his first time out in a new place, we were also with another horse who was very quiet. 15 mins before home he started to get very fidgety, got himself into a right tizz pouring with sweat and throwing his head around and he was very strong (he was advertised as snaffle-mouthed). Again, I let this go as it was his first time out.

I then rode him a couple of days later in the school. My instructor described him like a "newly backed 3 year old", he knew nothing, wasn't well balanced and the woman I bought him off reckons he'd done dressage! I went to change my whip over (quietly) into my other hand and he shot across the school - I remember her saying to me she had to "give him a few hard whacks to get him going as he was lazy". He was very forward going (she said he wasn't but with food in him he is!), only had to touch his sides and he'd ping into trot, we did lots of transitions, 20m circles, serpentines etc. to get him listening. I rode him every day either in the school or out on a hack with quiet horses and he seemed fine, although I put a market harborough on him to help control him a bit more and a flash. He threw in a small buck when I asked for canter on the left reign, but this is his worst one and thought nothing of it.

Then on Friday, we get to a different place out on a hack, I ask him for trot and he throws in a hefty buck. Fortunately I sat through it, calmed him down and carried on and put that down to excitement. On Saturday (just gone) I rode him in the school, asked for trot on the left reign and he threw a huge buck this time and I landed like a sack of spuds on my shoulder.

Since he's been with me, his temperament has changed. Whilst he is nice to groom, he bites when given his feed and hay (although he has got better), he's terrible at picking his feet out, not great with the farrier and as he's feeling better, he's now becoming a right handful and there is no way he's a novice ride. I've got the physio coming out again to check his back and I'm now getting the bloods checked that the vet took as I think he may have been sedated. I certainly think he's been kept thin to keep him under control - but that is so cruel!

The woman said that I could bring him back if he wasn't suitable, I have contacted her and she has come back to me, but the last message I left was that I wanted to bring him back as he's not right but surprise surprise, she hasn't come back to me! I will have owned him 4 weeks this Thursday...

It is such a shame as this is my first time buying a horse!!! Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mrs B
 
Forgot to add that whilst I'm prepared to give him time, what I don't want to end up with is a very fit big horse who's a nightmare and dangerous!
 
Can you give us a bit more of an idea about his management?

Feed/turnout/amount of exercise? How experienced are you with handling horses? Is he the same to handle with a calm experienced owner on the yard?

Ridden, is his problematic behaviour usually on the left rein? Can you get someone experienced to watch him trot up and turn small circles in walk to see if there could be an issue there?

I'd speak to the vet who did your vetting and give them the heads up that you are having issues and see if they can shed any light and suggest next steps with the bloods.

Def keep trying the seller if you want to return him. Was it a business or private seller you got him from? If a business then maybe trading standards can weigh in?

Best of luck with this.
 
there's 2 ways of looking at it, yep you've been had and he was doped or kept skinny to keep him sane and unless you got it in writing that you can return him you are up the creek without a paddle:(
Or you can say that 4 weeks isn't a very long time for a relatively young horse to settle in, most horses seem to go through a stage of testing a new owner/rider. Have you made huge changes to his routine compared to how he was kept at his last home? more feed less turnout can make a huge difference to a horses behaviour, plus the spring grass and warmer weather can turn even the saintliest plod into a wild thing for a week or 2! Have you had your instructor ride him to see what she /he thinks and to see what tune they can get out of him?
 
This has always been a worry of mine when getting a new horse. Well done with dealing with what's been thrown at you so far. You said he is 6, so possibly he is having a period of either testing you out, or really freaking out. Youngsters are not my thing I'm afraid so I dont have much advice, although when I got my mare she looked very chilled out and relaxed when she arrived and also felt relaxed, until I got on about 9month after I had had her and she felt like she had really settled, almost like she had sighed and put her feet up. I put it down to finally accepting me, her new routine and home after 9 months of good living and from a good home rather from neglect. People on here will give great advice. Hang I'n there
 
Who viewed the horse with you (as in what 'expert' did you take)? And it sounds like a 5 stage vetting (not 2).......

At 16.3hh and 6 years old I wouldn't expect him to be very balanced in the school. He's young, big and has lots of maturing to do.

Changing of the whip over is no biggie - it may have been a new experience for him.

Take the Market Harborough off, and think about a standing martingale instead.

I'm assuming a new well fitted saddle, and good girth??

Sounds like food is making a difference, what are you feeding, and what's his general management. But I have to say you're coming across as someone for whom this horse may not be a problem. You sound calm and considered.

Can't imagine the seller will take him back, but you never know.
 
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What are you feeding him? What was previous owner feeding him?

If she wasnt feeding him anything except hay, perhaps it was for a reason.
 
What are you feeding him? I'm wondering if you've been overfeeding him and feeding him too much rich stuff because he arrived skinny and you want to build him up? if so, the feed will be adling his brain, he'll be hyper like a kid on smarties.

Go back to basics, downfeed him. Let him gain weight on grass and hay, and if you want to feed him from a bowl, make it unmolassed chaff (not alfalfa, not molassed chaff or laminitic chaff (which contains molasses) but molasses-free chaff). Alfalfa can dizzy their brains, so can haylage. Put a bit of balancer in the chaff so you know he's getting the right vits, and a couple of succulents - carrots or apple, but not too much because of the sugar.

See if that has an effect within 5 days or so.

They will also try you out at some point to see where the boundaries lie. My horse is lovely and everything he was advertised to be (I've had him 12 years) but I do remember him napping badly with me about 3 weeks after I'd bought him, no particular reason, it was just the day for setting boundaries. No problems since.

And this is a young horse, 6 is young, whether he's done nothing or done dressage, so you are going to be responsible for his education. He's not a finished product at that age. Many neds aren't mature in their physicalness or mentalness until they're 7. And he's a big boy so likely to be slowmaturing.

Good luck with him if you keep him.
 
He does sound like he is a bit much for a first horse (although your obviously experienced for a first time owner, your not comfortable with him) and after 4 weeks of settling in I would want to see the more normal behaviour that you were expecting of him.
If you bought him from someone who sells as a business then she should take him back, especially as it has only been a month, however I'm pretty sure a private seller has no obligation to take the horse back from you unless you have it in writing, even though they said they would.
However even if you cant give him back it doesn't sound like he would be too hard to sell, he sounds like he would be a nice project for someone experienced.
Edit: I forgot to add about food, but most people have already said. One of my old horses only got hard feed when I wanted him to be fizzy, as even a small amount made him go up a few gears and buck! Most of the time he was fed a handful of chaff with carrots (mainly so he didn't feel left out) and he had a vitamin and mineral lick.
 
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Sadly lots of people seem to keep horses skinny to keep them quiet. Living out through the winter shouldnt be a reason for a horse to be skinny, mine live out 24/7 and are quite plump. All his isues could probably be worked on but only if you have the time, confidence and eperience, if not you may be better selling him on to someone who has.
 
Hi Guys, thanks for your replies. It was a private sale...

The instructor I took was from the riding school I went to - she said he was nice, quiet, a bit skinny, but he did live out so that would explain that. He was being fed twice a day with hay, but I'm not sure what she was giving him, she did say she gave him oats to wake him up a bit for dressage!

I spoke to the vet - he raised the subject of his condition with the owner at the time of vetting, but she dodged the issue and when I said it could be that he's a handful when up to weight, he agreed with me and said unfortunately this is common :(

He's gone from living in the equivalent of a youth hostel to the Ritz. He's fed twice a day with nuts, chaff and hay, he's turned out for approx. 6 hours every day. I have a good quality 2nd hand saddle professionally fitted with a new girth, sheepskin numnah. Where he is now, they are very experienced, more than where I used to ride and I trust their judgement implicitly.

I do want the bloods done because if he was given anything to quieten him down, I'll take her to court. If they come back clean, then I will persevere, but he is a lot of horse for me, I don't feel experienced enough to handle him. He is now lame, which is another reason for the bloods being tested, I noticed that when I lunged him yesterday.

I know that as he's a big boy he will take time to gain his balance and also build up muscle to balance him and I also understand that he'll push the boundaries, but what I am most peed off with is that she advertised him as an ideal first horse and a novice ride, and under proper care, he most definately is not! If he was advertised as an experienced ride only then I could fully understand it.

I know it's not Boris' fault, because he is a sweet boy, he comes to me when I call him, he's a delight to groom and be around, but I'm worried I'm going to have a big beast with an attitude on my hands! I'm going to take my time and give him time, but while doing so, don't want to get hurt...
 
i got had but i was an idiot and deserved it.
I went to the worst dealer in the country on my own in a brand new car and bought a horse i felt sorry for.
He came complete with a false passport and somewhere between the dealers yard and my house he underwent a complete personality change.
It was hell on earth for the first six months it was a dangerous nightmare.
I wasn t exsperienced enough to handle him but i grew in confidence as time went by. Eventually we bonded and i have had him 3 years nowI ride in the summer and chill out in the winter.. he is seriously perfect for me!
I think some horses go through a tremendous trauma when changing hands and take ages to settle down and get their confidence...
I know it feels like crap at the moment..been there but please don t rule out the possibility of a happy ending!
 
Don't rule him being your perfect horse out. Once you have settled on a managment and feeding routine that works for you he may well be. He is only 6 so once you have worked out where his buttons are and with a good instructor started progressing with his schooling/ education he may turn out to be a star.
 
Both ours live out over winter - one's a TB and has maintained a good weight! Living out is no excuse for a horse to be skinny. Its not been a hard winter either. I would say she kept him skinny to keep him a bit lacklustre when ridden!

I hope you get the result you want - be it him being taken back or just working through the issues. 6 is still young and he may just be testing you. Although like others have said, after 4 weeks you'd expect him to have settled more. Its such a shame when people mis-advertise horses as it generally ends in the horse being passed from pillar to post or the rider losing confidence. If people were just honest to start with then more chance of the right match!
 
I would second the feeding issue. Whether or not it seems 'correct' to cut his feed, some horses just can't cope with what we give them.

My current horse is my first horse and I had a nightmare with him for about the first year - bucking, spooking, napping, barging. Like yours I bought him underweight and unfit after winter, though he was 9, and took him to a professional yard where I had lots of help. I fed him what I thought was a proper diet, with lots of haylage and good quality feed. He was turned out less than he had been at the old home which had been a private farm. I had lessons on him and he was schooled by my instructor sometimes and he was ridden every day, but he was still awful and people told me to sell him.
In the end out of desperation I moved him to a friends farm where he gets 24 hour turnout and a smidgen of feed... totally different horse. If your horse came from this sort of set-up to a busy livery yard it might just be too much for him! I am not saying you should move him at all, as you are best off where you can get help when you need it BUT can you increase turnout and cut feed to see what happens then????

To add, I was stubborn and refused to sell my horse. 4 years on and he is pretty much perfect for me but it has been a long hard struggle, I have had several injuries and lots of help from other people as my confidence was completely destroyed. So it depends how much you want to put in. 4 weeks isn't a long time to settle in especially seeing as he is a baby. BUT you have to decide if it's worth the effort or would you be better getting something that has done more.
 
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The first thing I would do is stop feeding him anything other than hay and see if that has any effect. I made the mistake of over-feeding my first horse and she was absolutely cuckoo until my RI realised what was going on and told me to stop giving her additional feeds, just hay and a small handful of chaff so she felt including at dinnertime.
 
Just to put a different spin on it, I loaned one horse with view to buy and the mare came back 8 weeks later as a bolter!!! I have owned the mare 10 yrs and know her inside out so it did make me chuckle.
I sold a very quiet cob who was a perfect first horse and again had him for a few years so knew him inside out. I had a call to tell me he was messing about and being nappy, I couldn't believe it so went and rode him and was fine so worked with them and it was a happy outcome.

What I'm trying to say is new horses can push their luck with a new rider so maybe that's what's going on.
 
I would also question the feed. Look at something non heating, nuts vary massively!
I would say horses change so much from when they are underweight to when they look reasonable.
Bloods are all very well and good, but a friend of mine bought a horse who had a full vetting bloods included, only to be told when the horse was a nutter, that it wouldn't be economically viable to test for everything that can be used.
Of course the best way to keep a horse quiet is to remove water, which would affect condition and keep him quiet.
I would persevere, lunge before riding, try a build him up slowly.
Maybe consider getting someone else to ride him occasionally to bring him on, as he is only a baby.
 
How about letting him have 24/7 turnout again? He's gone from being out 24hrs a day to just a quarter of that- any young horse may feel the need to burn off a bit more steam in that situation. Also maybe just try him on adlib hay, he will get all he needs from it if its good enough quality and he gets enough of it. It may be he is sensitive to molasses that could be in the chaff or that he isn't sure what to do with the extra energy he finds himself with now he is being fed more. You sound like you are handling him well, and 4 weeks is still a relatively short time for a young horse to be finding his feet- how long did his previous owner have him for? Good luck!
 
HashRouge said:
The first thing I would do is stop feeding him anything other than hay and see if that has any effect. I made the mistake of over-feeding my first horse and she was absolutely cuckoo until my RI realised what was going on and told me to stop giving her additional feeds, just hay and a small handful of chaff so she felt including at dinnertime.
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I have to agree cut out any feed. Also if you bought from a dealer you are better covered than buying privately. I hope you get the matter resolved soon.
 
It's a real shame that more was not made of his condition at the vetting - and that concerns were not raised with you about how the change in regime (i.e actually getting fed properly) may affect him.

Drop the hard feed, and carry on with all your hard work. I think he could turn out to be a super star.....!
 
Don't despair.

I think you are doing absolutely the right thing having the bloods tested, get the vet to look at the lameness too incase that is causing the issues or is something that should have been notified to you.

If you decide to persevere with him, which you sound capable of doing I would suggest having someone from the yard help schooling him and having lots of lessons.

I would cut his feed right back to the bare minimum, hay and a balancer. He may look a bit on the poor side for a while but better that than him become a monster. Maybe add a calmer to his feed too. Keep him on low sugar and low starch. I'd get him as much turnout as possible too, that normally helps settle them a bit without getting them too fit. Has his routine or environment changed significantly? Worth considering whether that might have unsettled him.

Check all of his tack is suitable and comfortable. Are his teeth ok? Is his tack what he is used to?

I agree that a standing martingale would be a good idea if he is chucking his head about to evade you. They are easy to pick up cheaply.

Consider lunging before riding if he is fresh, and be careful to keep safe with hat and body protector, a mobile in your pocket and someone around at all times as a safety precaution.

Providing he hasn't been drugged you will probably find that this is a combination of him testing you, feeling well on extra feed, spring arriving and possibly some changes he isn't happy with or some discomfort somewhere. By the sounds of your post I'm sure you will get there with him in the end.
 
OP what area are you in? If I were you I would send the horse to a very good professional for one week. One who is used to all sorts of horses, screw-ups, breakers, etc. They can assess the horse and tell you, because none of us can, if there is not really anything more wrong with this horse than greenness and being unsettled, or if it is a bigger problem. With a bit more reassurance that the horse just needs time and confidence, you'll feel happier about proceeding or if you've had it from someone who knows that this is a horse with severe issues you have more grounds for returning it.
 
I've checked with the yard owner - she assures me there's no 'heat' in any of the feed. I'll suggest turning him out for longer and she did say that come April/May they will be out all night.

The physio is looking at him as I type, my vet found an 'inactive splint' on his front left leg, I can't remember whether the vetting vet put this on the form or not.

I know there's a load of potential with him and I want to do a little bit of everything with him, i.e. dressage, jumping, happy hacking etc. with a view to my daughter riding him when she's older and experienced enough (she's 6!), so I bought him with a view to keeping him for the long term.

I just hope we can sort him out, because I know I can give him a loving, caring and fulfilling home, I hope he can return the favour!
 
MrsB said:
I've checked with the yard owner - she assures me there's no 'heat' in any of the feed. I'll suggest turning him out for longer and she did say that come April/May they will be out all night.

The physio is looking at him as I type, my vet found an 'inactive splint' on his front left leg, I can't remember whether the vetting vet put this on the form or not.

I know there's a load of potential with him and I want to do a little bit of everything with him, i.e. dressage, jumping, happy hacking etc. with a view to my daughter riding him when she's older and experienced enough (she's 6!), so I bought him with a view to keeping him for the long term.

I just hope we can sort him out, because I know I can give him a loving, caring and fulfilling home, I hope he can return the favour!
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I think it would be worth taking a slightly more active role in his feeding. Find out exactly what products he is getting and in what quantities. Horses react very differently to some feeds and they can be "traditionally" non-heating but actually send some nuts!

I had to start buying a separate feed for mine as the standard stuff that is included with the livery just wasn't right. You may need to do the same and buy something that has no sugar or starch.
 
Kat said:
I think it would be worth taking a slightly more active role in his feeding. Find out exactly what products he is getting and in what quantities. Horses react very differently to some feeds and they can be "traditionally" non-heating but actually send some nuts!
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Agreed, this is your situation to manage, with the help of others.

Good luck with him - let us know how you get on.
 
As a fellow owner of a very large young horse I can reassure you that they ARE unballanced and thus they do buck. So, while there could be an underlying problem the bucking could simply be this - I know with my youngster, the fitter he has become, the less bucking he does!

I would echo the others - cut his feed RIGHT down. My boy has add-lib hay but only half a scoop of high fibre cubes and a dolop of speedibeet to have his supplements in. I'd feed a general purpose powder supplement rather than a balancer as balancers can heat them up if they are sensitive types. I've never known a horse to heat up on a powder supp. If you want to help the calories, add some sunflower oil.

Some 'chaffs' contain a LOT of sugar - I'd make sure he is on a mollasses free variety with minimal Alfa alfa content.

Is he getting turnout? if so, how much? young horses really need at least 8 hours a day IMO to expect them to stay sane!

While he isn't as advertised you haven't described anything particularly alarming... i wouldn't hack a youngster and not expect the odd blip and I certainly wouldn't get on an unknown youngster and expect to do with it what you would a more experienced horse i.e canters out hacking, large groups etc... slowly slowly catchy monkey!... he is just a young, insecure horse in unfamiliar surroundings and I would have expected any lameness to show up sooner had bute been used to mask it...
 
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