I took a horse to be shot today

fburton said:
I have been told by vets that thrashing and breathing may continue for some time after loss of consciousness. To be honest, I'm not sure about attempts to stand - to my mind that would be a voluntary action rather than reflex, though maybe it could happen purely as a result of spinal reflexes considering that decerebrate cats (:() can still walk. What did your vet say about it?
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She actually cried herself. I didn't really ask too many questions. Think I was too upset and shocked by it all. Once he was dead, I just covered him with rugs (was a kids school nearby and didn't want them to see the body) and went home. My friends arranged collection of his body. I was trying to keep him calm and the vet said let go or he will end up hurting you by accident. It was just horrible. To have to make the decision to put him to sleep was bad enough but for him to not go peacefully just made me feel incredibly guilty for a long time.
 
Completely understandable - everyone wants a peaceful death for their horse. I'm sorry you had to go through that. :(

May I ask if your horse was sedated before the euthanasia injection was given?
 
This is a really interesting thread, so thank you for sharing, OP.

My boy is older I suppose - he is 18 now - and I think that when the time comes (hopefully not for a long while yet!) that the hunt might be the best way for him. He is quite scared of vets and is an absolute b*gger to sedate. Awful to think about, but ultimately, it is realistic.
 
It is just such a horrible thing to go through. I have seen 4 horses PTS by injection. The first two were very peaceful and the horses literally just lay down and went to sleep. Then we had a livery horse PTS 5 years ago here and she went down very quickly, but turned her head towards us ears pricked and eyes wide just like they do when they are staring at something that had spooked them. She did not move once down, but did gasp for several minutes afterwards. So when it came to my darling mare's turn, I chose the injection. Mainly because I could not bear the though of a bullet going into her beautiful head. It just seemed too violent, and I have heard horror stories about horses having to be shot twice.

But when she went down it was really hard and onto her back where she paddled her legs in the air for maybe ten seconds, then she was gone. So not really bad, but not the gentle falling to sleep I had hoped would happen. The image still haunts me. However, I think it was still far better than if the bullet had gone wrong.

I think that on balance I would still choose injection, but I do not think that shooting is so bad as I had once thought. And I really am undecided as to which method is truly the best method for the horse.
 
Capriole said:
Unfortunately our local hunt aren't answering or returning messages for some reason, as we've been trying to get them out :(

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I had this with Warwickshire Hunt about six months ago when I left a message with someone asking them if they would let me know the best number to call in case of emergency so I could put it on the board at the yard. No one ever returned my call and it was quite dissapointing really as the woman I spoke to said she admired my forward thinking.
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Spot_the_Risk said:
Tootsietoo, I too have had strongly negative comments from some regarding shooting but it is the choice I've made for my scaredy cat old boy. Not great with needles at all! I've asked the vet which he recommends and he said gun.
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I too had negative feelings towards me for choosing the hunt for my last horse. One person even went so far as to suggest I had only chosen the hunt because I couldn't afford the vet! Little did she know how much money had gone into my horse trying to get her right and the reason I chose the hunt was because she was terrified of the vet and needles. It was very quick and I'm convinced she didn't know a thing about it.

However, I do think it looks like a violent method. I grew up in the countryside but I wouldn't say I'm a 'country girl'. The first time I saw a gun up close was when my horse was put to sleep. For me, having my horse shot was a truly horrific thing to witness. I had panic attacks for a long while after. So for me, I would prefer injection but for that particular horse it had to be the gun and I had to put my brave pants on for her.
 
The hunt don't hand out mobile numbers for obvious reasons!

You will find if you leave a message your call will be usually be returned within minutes...reflex reactions quite often happen regardless of method but I for one would always choose the hunt or knackerman.

I did last year with my chap who I had for 16 years and also watched. I wouldn't say watching this is for everyone! But for me it was 100% the right decision but that might be because of my background. Who knows!
 
Hopefully I won't have this decision for a while yet, but I would rather opt for the hunt, but only someone very experienced. When I went on a vet med course a few years ago, I was told that something like 1 in 1000 horses have a crazy reaction to the sedation and can go mad- in once instance a horse galloped off and through someone's glass door . I have no idea if that is true though ! just repeating someone else. My friend had her horse done by injection, he was sedated, then held next to a hole, he fell in to the hole as he died. That left me uncomfortable as I thought, well what if he falls in still conscious?! but apparently he would have been totally unconscious as he fell. The friend who had hers done by injection told me that in a way she felt shooting was too instant, she wanted her horse so slip away gradually and peacefully- I can see the thinking and human emotion behind that, but i'd prefer it to be very instant.
 
This has just got me thinking. My boy is 18 and riddled with melanoma. They don't affect him at the moment but this day is coming for me at some point in the not very distant future. I've always thought I'd choose the injection as I've seen two and both were very peaceful (my old boy, who wasn't particularly fond of the vet was already down and just needed helping on his way and the little two year old didn't have a clue who or what the vet was.) but I've not really considered the logistics. While my boy isn't needle shy, he is a right royal PITA for the vet - just because he can. We usually go to the vet's yard and he put in the stocks for injections etc. As soon as he's in there he's quiet as a lamb and isn't in the least bit bothered, but I'd rather he goes home so we obviously won't be able to use them. I hadn't really considered the practicalitities of how the vet would carry it out before. Maybe the gun would be better. Just not sure I could bear to hear that bang....let alone two if it comes to that.
 
fburton said:
I agree that it's best to keep all options open.

Both injection and shooting are potential suitable methods. Both work well when done properly. Both can go wrong, but the chances of that are small. Which method is 'best' for the horse and its owner depends on circumstances (such as whether the horse is needle-shy, the location is suitable, etc.) and owner preferences. Neither method is clearly superior to the other from the clinical and welfare point of view; if it was, vets wouldn't use the clearly inferior method, surely?!

That said, I must once again question the idea that horses can fight the injection. What's going on when that happens? Are they really suffering or does it just look as if they are? I haven't yet seen any evidence that a horse can actually fight to delay loss of consciousness after correct injection of barbiturate overdose, and from what I know about the way the drug works it seems inconceivable that the animal could do this. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that spinal impulses could continue for some time after loss of consciousness producing actions which look like conscious struggling - obviously upsetting to anyone watching, especially if they haven't had prior warning, explanation and reassurance from the vet.

Once again I ask if any vets here can give a definitive answer on this matter because "fighting the injection" is often given as an argument against choosing injection, possibly discouraging people unfairly and needlessly from considering this entirely valid option.
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I agree this is possible. Every time I have had a small furry pts the vets has wrapped them in a towel and handed it back but warned me that even though dead twitching was possible

Apologies if this is a silly question but is the being shot option very messy? I'm thinking if it was done at home will there be blood and so on to clear up :(
 
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Hoof_Prints said:
When I went on a vet med course a few years ago, I was told that something like 1 in 1000 horses have a crazy reaction to the sedation and can go mad- in once instance a horse galloped off and through someone's glass door .
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Adverse reactions to sedation are rare but they do happen. An adverse reaction to barbiturate overdose would be something else entirely, and as far as I am aware doesn't happen - not counting the potentially and understandably distressing muscular movements and gasping that can occur after the horse is rendered unconscious (and hence incapable of suffering).

I have no idea if that is true though ! just repeating someone else. My friend had her horse done by injection, he was sedated, then held next to a hole, he fell in to the hole as he died. That left me uncomfortable as I thought, well what if he falls in still conscious?! but apparently he would have been totally unconscious as he fell.
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Yes, that is right. Falling like that is a clear indication that the anaesthetic has reached the brain and, assuming overdose, irreversible loss of consciousness.

The friend who had hers done by injection told me that in a way she felt shooting was too instant, she wanted her horse so slip away gradually and peacefully- I can see the thinking and human emotion behind that, but i'd prefer it to be very instant.
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I understand and would fully support an owner's decision either way. The only thing that concerns me in threads discussing shooting vs injection is the view that injection is a less humane or effective method from the horse's pov because of the possibility of "fighting the injection" for which there is no clinical evidence that I know of.

(I'm not denying injection may be undesirable for other reasons, of course.)
 
We have a hugely experienced local knackerman and I'd choose him to shoot my horse over giving lethal injection any time having seen several that didn't go smoothly.

It's what I chose for Gina and also my beloved Merl and I don't reject it as it was instant and the horses didn't know a thing.
 
I would always choose a free bullet over a needle. It is absolutely instant. It does, however, need to be done by an experienced huntsman, or knackerman, who is fully aware of the different placements for different animals.

Webble - there is always the possibility of blood, but I can honestly say that every one I have 'held' has gone very cleanly. A small amount of blood from the nose, which was dealt with very, very easily with a bucket. A couple of them didn't even need that. If you are concerned, then you can always stand them on straw or shavings, but I never have.

Our huntsman is kind, and professional, and never forgets there is a human grief as well. He will stand and feed polos or carrots, and as odd as it sounds, I once was very pleased to see carrots fall out of the horse's mouth when it was removed. It told me that it's last conscious thought was of nice things :)
 
fburton said:
Completely understandable - everyone wants a peaceful death for their horse. I'm sorry you had to go through that. :(

May I ask if your horse was sedated before the euthanasia injection was given?
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I don't believe he was. It was my first experience of having a horse pts and I just went with whatever the vet thought best. She did put a shot of something in his neck and then went to put a second in and that's when he started flipping out. She didn't explain what she was doing and I was just too upset to ask.

My OH used to help his friend do the knacker run for the local hunt (met him after I had my horse pts) and he has nothing but good words for the ones he has seen or held to be shot. So I think that's what I will use when the day comes.
 
Copperpot said:
I don't believe he was. It was my first experience of having a horse pts and I just went with whatever the vet thought best. She did put a shot of something in his neck and then went to put a second in and that's when he started flipping out. She didn't explain what she was doing and I was just too upset to ask.
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I understand, and I'm sorry it didn't go well. Sedation prior to anaesthetic overdose, with enough time allowed for the sedative to take effect, is the recommended procedure these days.

My OH used to help his friend do the knacker run for the local hunt (met him after I had my horse pts) and he has nothing but good words for the ones he has seen or held to be shot. So I think that's what I will use when the day comes.
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Sounds like the best option for you. I hope the day doesn't come anytime soon, though it's something almost all of us will have to face at some point.
 
I hope it doesn't too for many years to come. However I feel I am now better prepared to deal with it. I had only been a horse owner 12 months when he was pts and I knew nothing about it really.

For my big boy, I bought him from the hunt and if it's possible I would like to take him back there, so he can go listening to the hounds. I think he'd like that.

I'm sure the injection is just as good as option for anyone who chooses it, I guess we make future decisions based on past experiences.
 
I can't say I've any preference as to either method, quite honestly. I've sadly got some experience of both, and I'd choose either/or as suits the horse (barring emergency situations where there might be no choice).


Aleka81 said:
The hunt don't hand out mobile numbers for obvious reasons!

You will find if you leave a message your call will be usually be returned within minutes...
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No, unfortunately not what I've found. I realise people are busy and can't always answer the phone, but slightly disappointed that they never got back to any messages, left over several days. I'm sure they've got their reasons but a quick 'sod off we're busy' or whatever would have been grand, then we would have stopped trying to contact them sooner.
 
webble said:
I agree this is possible. Every time I have had a small furry pts the vets has wrapped them in a towel and handed it back but warned me that even though dead twitching was possible

Apologies if this is a silly question but is the being shot option very messy? I'm thinking if it was done at home will there be blood and so on to clear up :(
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There is blood sometimes a lot sometimes not too much. We have had to use sawdust to clean it up in the past.
But I would always choose the bullet as 9 years ago I had to have my 7 year old PTS by injection as we couldn't move her from the Hospital to be shot. She unfortunately pulled the cannula out half way through being given the injection. I won't describe here what happened in the next 45 minutes. But it was so traumatic it haunts me and my mum to this day.
Never again.
I understand the bullet can also go horribly wrong but I can only go on my experience and I haven't ever had a bad experience that way.
 
Thanks for this thread - I've often wondered which method I'd choose if I had time to carefully consider.

I had a dog pts, which was very peaceful and he just drifted off to sleep. It was nice to watch his body free itself of the pain he was in, so I thought it would be OK to take the kids (8 and 14) when our cat had to be pts. Big mistake - she cried, and fought to the end. It was horrible to witness.

I was quite surprised by comments that the Warwickshire hunt were hard to get hold of, and didn't come out. When my mare died suddenly a couple of years ago, I had no idea what to do with her remains, and someone recommended I call the Atherstone Hunt. In spite of the fact that my mare had been on industrial strength meds in the 24 hours before her death (Mike?) still came to collect her within a couple of hours of calling him. He arrived with a trailer on the end of a 4x4 so it didn't feel like anything bad was going to happen to her when she arrived at her final destination. He was absolutely lovely the whole time, and I wouldn't hesitate to go to him again.
 
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