I was a wee bit shocked....

M

MizElz

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...when shopping at my favourite saddlery the other day. I was looking at the boots and chaps, and couldnt help overhearing a conversation taking place in the hat section. The shop assistant (who I often run away from due to the fact that she is sooooo overpowering, all knowing and pushy) was serving two women, one of whom wanted to buy a new hat. She was sorted out with a new one pretty quickly, but then the shop assistant said to her that the hat would need replacing in two years time, as it would 'wear out.' The other lady turned to her friend and laughed, saying that hers was at least six years old, had minimal use and had never been fallen on, so she saw no point in replacing it....well, shop witch flew into an all-knowing rage, telling her how irresponsible she is, how having a hat older than 2 years is reckless, and conconcting some fairy story about how you dont need to fall on a hat to damage it, it will 'wear out with time', etc etc. Well I'm sorry to say the lady was weak in her resolve, and sure enough, she gave in and bought a new hat, also promising to come back to buy a new hat for her daughter, who had had hers for two years.

I wanted to go up to her and tell her that I have two hats, one of which (my everyday one) is 8 years old, has been fallen on an oodle of times, and is still going strong; the other (5 years old - best hat) ditto. And god forbid I had told her that my mum (when she occasionally rides) still wears an old jockey skull, bought in the '80s!!!!! Pushy shop people make me so angry!!!

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i have only ever had 3 hats in 10 years of riding, 1 was to ugly to wear in public then i got a nice new one which was stolen at my last yard so i've been wearin an old tatty one recently. i'm gonna get a champion ne soon tho
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i was told to replace my hat everytime i fall off by the lady that fitted it for me, i don't, does anyone??
 
OMG...due to the fact that, one day, I will write a novel about it, I have kept a tally of every time I have fallen off...at present it comes to 97
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so, if every time I fell off, I SHOULD have replaced my hat, I would now be at least £9700 in debt! Argh!!!!

(I think you can guess from that that my answer is no, I do not replace my hat every time I fall off!
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She probably has a point about hats not having to have a fall to damage your hat, when you see how much most people abuse them..................squashed in car/trailer/lorry under tack etc on way to show, knocked around the tack room, dropped on the yard etc... I would also assume that they do have a shelf live i.e. length of time before the integrity of the material starts to deteriorate etc... How long that would be, I have no idea.
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Apparently the material hats are made from does degrade and get less effective over time- even without being dropped/fallen on. Your/your mum's hats probably offer more protection than nothing at all, but they won't be anywhere near as good as new ones that haven't been fallen on 'oodles of times'. Your head, your choice, but I reckon pushy shop woman has a point!
 
modern riding hats do have a short life span. Simply wearing them eventualy compacts the material, warmth and sweat degrade it. You don't have to fall for it to wear out of be damaged.

Modern hats are intended to be disposable and changed every few years, or when the rider falls on them etc

So the womans sales pitch was in line with the manufacturers guidelines.

Further to that, insurance companies are always looking for reasons not to pay. If a rider had an accident and injured their head... and it was found that their hat was not up to standard, or was damaged prior to the accident, chances are the insurance would not pay out. They would argue that the injuries would have been less if the hat was ok. The sub standard hat woud be a contributry factor.

I would like to think that if one of my family fell off and sufferd serious injury they would get the insurance money! Hats start at 40 quid... if you can afford a horse, or afford to ride, you can afford a decent hat!
 
Actually the 'pushy shop person' is the only one here with intelligence and she was quite rightly telling the customer to replace her hat every 2 years - it should be - and you body protector should be replaced every 5 years max. The foam that forms the protective barrier will start to break down over a couple of years and its protective properties will deteriorate. at 8 years it is probably of little protective use as it will look fine ( possibly) but years of sweat, perfume, make up etc have contributed to a reduction in safety factors. Also I defy anyone to not have dropped the hat in that 8 years.

The only thing protecting you head - which is your most vital organ - is your hat. So rather than being extremely proud of the fact that your hat is 8 years old, just think about how you would cope with severe brain damage. My hats cost me £100 a time, not much when you think that is £50 a year - less than £1 a week. If you can't afford that - then don't ride as you certainly can't afford the thousands it would cost to convert your house to comply with disabled requirements.

I hate seeing kids in hats too large - that they will grow into - or cast off hats from older brothers and sisters, do parents really value their childs life so little.

Replace your hat every 2 years - regardless of whether you have fallen off - it is simple intelligence. And a very cheap life saver.
 
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Actually the 'pushy shop person' is the only one here with intelligence.

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WHAOOOOOOOOOOO there, is atleast 3 of here who have said the sales lady had a valid point, me included!!!
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Forgot to say that, as an oldie, it tookme a while to get my head (ha, ha!) round all this 'disposable' hat lark..... Before joining the enlightend I had a hat so old that all the velvet had dropped off!
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piebald easter - that wasn't aimed at anyone who had replied - just the people in the shop and the original poster. Sorry if it read like that. when I replied no one else had put forward a sensible response.
 
fair enough in telling her what to do with her hat but she shouldn't be so bolshy to make a person buy something and then promise to bring back her kids to get hats too.

and personally if i needed a new hat i would buy a top notch one which would keep me safe and would probs be quite expensive, and with all the cost of horse riding i, as a 17 yo who has left school and is still trying to save up enough to go to college, wouldn't be able to afford a new hat every 2 years.
 
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fair enough in telling her what to do with her hat but she shouldn't be so bolshy to make a person buy something and then promise to bring back her kids to get hats too.

and personally if i needed a new hat i would buy a top notch one which would keep me safe and would probs be quite expensive, and with all the cost of horse riding i, as a 17 yo who has left school and is still trying to save up enough to go to college, wouldn't be able to afford a new hat every 2 years.

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Surely if you are concerned about safety and want to buy an expensive hat because of it you would want to replace it when it was no longer safe!
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You don't have to spend £100's to get a hat the conforms the the highest standards. There are many hats from £30 which are kite marked and conform to the latest PAS and ESN standards.
 
she is required by BETA - assuming she is a BETA member to draw the 2 year rule to customers attention. She as a retailer of hats has a responsibility in law to ensure she gives the customer this information. If the customer decides to ignore it it is their problem.

As a 17 year old who is riding - if you can afford to ride you can afford to buy a hat . You do not need a top notch one - they are no safer than the Kids Own ones. Yes they look better. but to be honest if looks are more important than your life then don't bother.

when discussing my new hat a while ago on the yard, I had someone tell me that I was wasting my money, they said proudly they had got their hat for 50p in a charity shop - to be honest with that level mental ability a new hat was not top priority - obviously not a brain worth saving!
 
I might have guessed there would be a lot of pontificating regarding this subject!
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To those who have stated that you dont need to buy a £100 hat, as a £30 will do - I think you are negating your own argument. Are you saying you would prefer to wear a new £30 hat over a 3/4/5 etc year old £150 one? Because I know which I would choose...

And the issue is not 'if you can afford to ride, you can afford a hat' - nobody yet to my knowledge has posted on here and said 'I do not have a hat but I still ride.'
 
We have to remember why we wear hats... style is low down the list safety & comfort are higher conciderations. I buy cheap, fitted hats conforming to the current standards and get a new one every 2 years or as needed. I don't mind this because they are cheap hats. I ride or drive every day so I get my moneys worth. I would rather do this than wear a 150 pound hat for 5 years and potentialy suffer the consequences. How it looks is not that important IMHO.

If I was a millionaire, I would buy 150 pound hats and change them every year, but you have to cut your cloth to suit.
 
yes, I would rather wear a £30 hat and replace it every two years than a £150 one and not be able to afford to replace it. A £30 hat (providing it is BS marked AND kitemarked) is as good as any of the expensive ones. I paid £70 for a Venturer hat and it's no better than a cheap one.

The same goes for body protectors, the protection level drops with age.
 
It does matter what the hats cost £30 or £150 if they have passed the same safty standards (PAS and ESN as stated in my previous post). The most important thing is that hat fits correctly and has a kite mark and PAS & ESN mark in it. The integrity of the hat will degenerate what ever the cost of the hat which will relate more to branding (provided both have met the same safty standard).
 
Another reason for changing your hat regularly... find a hat that has been worn regularly for years, and have a good sniff. I wouldn't like my head in a hat impregnated with 5 years worth of sweat... disgusting!
 
MizELToe - I think you are perhaps missing the point, no offence....

I personally have never even sat on a horse without a hat on, I respect my horse (I trust her with my life however, she is still a horse with her own brain at the end of the day) and myself too much for that.

You do not have to spend £100 per hat and as PE has pointed out there is an option of purchasing a cheaper one - doesn't matter what you pay as long as it meets the standards, it is the standard that shows the hat has been put through a range of safety tests not the price.

I think the sales person should have been more tactful but she is correct in what she has said and that hats degrade over a period of time, no matter how carefully they are looked after. It is one of the things we all overlook, putting off a hat purchase, afterall, horses cost enough as it is however people do make choices whether through vanity or ignorance, one of the great things about this forum is that knowledge is shared and now you know..............
 
I know that hats need changing every two years. I have got one that is about 3 year old never use it but always forget to throw it away. It doesnt even fit anymore it has gone huge on my head. I know they give but was fine but now it doesnt fit at all it slides of my head.

I stopped using it when I fell off and my hat just rolled of my head lucky I didnt land on my head, It was fastened and everything it was up to standard I believe it had come to end of its life.

I do now get one every year only as I have needed them for different reasons, college showing etc.
 
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MizELToe - I think you are perhaps missing the point, no offence....

I personally have never even sat on a horse without a hat on, I respect my horse (I trust her with my life however, she is still a horse with her own brain at the end of the day) and myself too much for that.

You do not have to spend £100 per hat and as PE has pointed out there is an option of purchasing a cheaper one - doesn't matter what you pay as long as it meets the standards, it is the standard that shows the hat has been put through a range of safety tests not the price.

I think the sales person should have been more tactful but she is correct in what she has said and that hats degrade over a period of time, no matter how carefully they are looked after. It is one of the things we all overlook, putting off a hat purchase, afterall, horses cost enough as it is however people do make choices whether through vanity or ignorance, one of the great things about this forum is that knowledge is shared and now you know..............

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TBH, I think if people want to stick to the guidelines then it is up to them. They are there for a reason, but then I dont know anyone who lives their life governed by what 'should' be done! IMO, buying a new hat every 2 years is very sensible, albeit a little overcautious. How many guidelines in life - many of them safety related - do we disobey on a daily basis? Now I'm not by any means saying that people who buy a hat every year/two years etc are wrong, what I am saying is that I think it is up to each individual to decide on their own dealings. Personally, I feel that although my hat is 8 yrs old, it still conforms to safety regulations, has not had a 'head fall', has been kept in a cushioned bag and, for the first 4 years of its life, was only used for competitions (so probably once every 3 weeks or so.) Each to their own! My problem was not so much with the guidelines that were being conveyed, it was with the abrupt, chastising manner in which the shop person attacked the lady!
 
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TBH, I think if people want to stick to the guidelines then it is up to them. They are there for a reason, but then I dont know anyone who lives their life governed by what 'should' be done! IMO, buying a new hat every 2 years is very sensible, albeit a little overcautious. How many guidelines in life - many of them safety related - do we disobey on a daily basis? Now I'm not by any means saying that people who buy a hat every year/two years etc are wrong, what I am saying is that I think it is up to each individual to decide on their own dealings. Personally, I feel that although my hat is 8 yrs old, it still conforms to safety regulations, has not had a 'head fall', has been kept in a cushioned bag and, for the first 4 years of its life, was only used for competitions (so probably once every 3 weeks or so.) Each to their own! My problem was not so much with the guidelines that were being conveyed, it was with the abrupt, chastising manner in which the shop person attacked the lady!

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REALLY
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..........so you didn't basically accuse the Shop assistant of lying in order to get a sale then??
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and conconcting some fairy story about how you dont need to fall on a hat to damage it, it will 'wear out with time', etc etc.

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Sorry if they are to be changed every 2yrs (or recommended to do so), why are Charles Owen stating 5yrs?

Charles Owen Young Riders Hat british saddles, ...This traditionally Styled riding hat is covered with a short pile velvet ... The expected life span of a helmet for the average rider is five years. ...
www.tds-saddlers.com/ProductDetails.asp?PCLinkID=9392 - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

Charles Owen J3 Helmet british saddles, riding saddles, country ...For equestrian clothing, we have riding breeches, jodhpurs, riding hats, .... The expected life span of a helmet for the average rider is five years. ...
www.tds-saddlers.com/ProductDetails.asp?PCLinkID=9389 - 34k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.tds-saddlers.com ]

And another recommendation states 3-4yrs
Riding hats should always be replaced immediately if they suffer a severe impact such as from a fall or being dropped onto a hard surface as although no visible damage may be seen, any severe impact to the riding hat can result in diminished protection. In addition the protection offered by any riding hat diminishes over time as the padding inside becomes compressed and so any riding hat should routinely be replaced every 3-4 years even if there are no visible signs of damage, etc.

http://www.beta-uk.org/Safety/HatGuide.asp
Gives not guide line on replacement. Below tells which marks are obsolete;
Obsolete standards
BS 6473: 1984
Was the standard which replaced the first riding hat standard (BS 3686) and was the standard used for headgear with permanent peaks.

BS4472:1988
This was the second revision of the standard designed for race jockeys and their headgear called jockey skulls. Both these standards were withdrawn in 1997 and are no longer seen as suitable by the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) for employed, self employed and loan schemes, except during competitions run by organisations which allow this standard e.g. Showing and Dressage.




The Kitemark
The kitemark is the registered trademark of the British Standards Institute and can only be affixed to products certified by them as meeting the required standard. The standard itself is a public document and can be printed on any product if the manufacturer believes it complies.
The kitemark's guarantee of compliance is backed up by a system of regulation which includes:
Design approval
An approved Quality Control System of Manufacture
A regular audit of helmets produced and the quality system used
Testing of representative samples priory to release of the production batch
All testing is overseen by BSI
There is always slight variance in materials which can produce differing test results. All manufacturers have occasional test failures which prohibit helmets being released onto the market place and so justifies the expense of regular testing.

BSI Standards
The foundations were laid for the world's first national standards organisation in 1903. This was a voluntary body, formed and maintained by industry, approved and supported by Government for the preparation of technical standards. The need to indicate to buyers that goods were 'up to standard' led to the British Standard Mark - to become known later as the Kitemark. It was first registered as a trade mark for tramway rails. An extension to its activities in 1930 led to a change of name to its current British Standards Institution (BSI).

The first riding hats to hold the Kitemark were seen in 1963. The Technical Committee responsible for agreeing the hat standard is made up of technical representatives, doctors and manufacturers including a BETA representative. The standards are voluntary, manufacturers do not have to pursue them except where Government legislation insists that they do.

Safety Equipment Institute (SEI)
SEI is an organisation similar to BSI in the USA which was set up to test the claims of manufacturers that their product met the claimed standard. Its system or regulation includes:

Design approval
Audit testing of product following a complaint and subsequent recall of the defective product if required.
CE Mark
This mark was introduced to allow government officials a way of ensuring that products entering a European country met the basic safety requirements of Europe.

Its system or regulation includes:

Design approval
A requirement for a system of quality control by the manufacturer.


http://www.beta-uk.org/Safety/HatStandards.asp

And no I dont change mine ever 2yrs.
 
Magic I am glad you posted this as I thought it was every 5 years too, which is what I've always done. Nice to know I'm not going mad!

I bought the Gatehouse one because as well as being tested to UK and european standards, they have tested them to Snell as well, which tests for such things as a stud strike to the helmet - fairly important eventing IMO. Now everyone who sees it says 'oh you've got one of those trendy eventing hats' - gah, I didn't even realise they were fashionable until after I bought it as I never notice what kit people in the mags are wearing, I just spent a few hours researching hat safety on the web and ended up with one!
 
That shop assistant sounds like one I know from a rather large saddlery in the SE. I have two hats, one is my day to day one. I have fallen in it many times I must admit. But I still wear it. It is about 4 years old. I guess when I have money it tends to be sucked up by what the horse needs not me I'm sorry to say- I will replace worn out horsey things far quicker than my own. I have another stunning hat for showing that is about 3 years old. I have never fallen in it and tbh probably will not replace it for many many years- because it is sooooo costly to buy quality showing hats plus it gets worn maybe 10 times a year! I agree hats do need replacing- but I have never heard of the two year rule! I was told it was every 4-6 years unless the hat had been fallen in. I think what the OP was complaining about was the forwardness and attitude of the SA. Although SAs have to adhere to rules on selling products etc, there are ways of going about it- rather than frightening some customer into spending money that she may not really have just after xmas! She should have told her of the implications and have advised a new purchase and left it at that.
 
The lady in the shop might have had a manner that you didn't like, however I would have to agree with the points she was making and say that anybody who wears a hat that is over 4 or 5 years old is taking some big risks - my most recent one is about 3 years old and I know it is due for a change as I can feel that it is getting a little soft, and I don't wear it that often.

As an aside though, I'm not concerned about whether my hat has the Kite mark, plenty of hats from outside the UK will be tested to EN or AS levels and I am happy that these equate to BS levels
 
I replaced my last hat after about 4 years even though it hadn't had a fall. It had done SO many hours and I was quite sure the wear and sweat (uggg
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) had weakened it, so I bought a new one. My mother had the same model she had bought at the same time as my last one, but she doesn't ride anywhere near as much so hers is still going strong.... I got a childs sized skull cap, so it wasn't too pricey - certainly a price I'm more than happy to pay to protect my head! It's common sense to me that you need to replace them relatively often if you want them to do their job.
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