I went to Haydock Races Yesterday

[Elf On A Shelf]

Maybe some of us have and not really liked what they have seen?

Yes there are parts to racing that most people won't like but some of these aspects are not liked purely because they are not understood. No racing isn't squeaky clean and yes there are a lot of things that can be improved upon but there is in every sport - horse related or not. Only by learning and understanding can the mistakes be corrected.

A trainer actually thought it was okay to denerve a horse's foot so that it could continue to race? Wtf?!! I would hope this attitude is very rare indeed!

Oh gawd! Back to JHJ again! My view - he is a total idiot, not just for what he did and the lives he put in danger but also for the fact that he ran the horse at Musselburgh where EVERY SINGLE horse that dies on that track is taken for a post mortom at Edinburgh Vet Uni for the students to learn with. If you knew you had done something dodgy to a horse that is the LAST place you would take it.

 

[Merry Crisis]

A trainer actually thought it was okay to denerve a horse's foot so that it could continue to race? Wtf?!! I would hope this attitude is very rare indeed!

Hey, the racing world does not agree with Howard Johnson or the owner of the horses. Ghastly horrid people, having said that, thank god for the rules of racing that these people have been found out. Far worse happens on a daily basis in the horse world I can assure you. Go to a bin end sale, I am not talking about a bloodstock sale. See for yourselves.

 

[Allover]

Yes there are parts to racing that most people won't like but some of these aspects are not liked purely because they are not understood. No racing isn't squeaky clean and yes there are a lot of things that can be improved upon but there is in every sport - horse related or not. Only by learning and understanding can the mistakes be corrected.

Agree 100%

Oh gawd! Back to JHJ again! My view - he is a total idiot, not just for what he did and the lives he put in danger but also for the fact that he ran the horse at Musselburgh where EVERY SINGLE horse that dies on that track is taken for a post mortom at Edinburgh Vet Uni for the students to learn with. If you knew you had done something dodgy to a horse that is the LAST place you would take it.

Obviously not the sharpest pencil in the box then

 

[Pale Rider]

Hey, the racing world does not agree with Howard Johnson or the owner of the horses. Ghastly horrid people, having said that, thank god for the rules of racing that these people have been found out. Far worse happens on a daily basis in the horse world I can assure you. Go to a bin end sale, I am not talking about a bloodstock sale. See for yourselves.

I don't think it was the 'rules of racing' that caught him out, apparently, a telephone tip off instigated the PM which did for him.

 

[Mithras]

And yes i have seen horses being pushed so hard they collapse over the finish line and have a heart attack or collapse back at the lorry park! (both which i have seen) No way am i against racing horses that are fit enough to run without being pushed over their limits or horses that genuinely enjoy racing.

So you go racing often enough to see the very rare cases where this happens (do you equally condemn owners of horses who have heart attacks on hacks or in the field?) yet you do not care enough to look up the names and form of the horses at Haydock you claim were exhausted in the racecard? Or even on the internet?

Doesn't really add up. It sounds to me as though you are actually more interested in your own personal argument than horse welfare.

You sound very young, probably under 16, from the way you write. People of your age can hold very entrenched idealised, blinkered views, partly due to lack of experience of the wider world.

 

[Merry Crisis]

I don't think it was the 'rules of racing' that caught him out, apparently, a telephone tip off instigated the PM which did for him.

Well good!! However it happened the little cruel bastaaard wont be causing any more suffering to horses. GW will find himself in a very big sea at PN. Howard Johnson can go back to being a very moderate farmer with cattle.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I don't think it was the 'rules of racing' that caught him out, apparently, a telephone tip off instigated the PM which did for him.

All horses from Musselburgh Racecourse go for a PM at the Vet Uni for the students to learn on. They do a thorough job but I do wonder if a de-nerving is specifically looked for as a learning oppertunity on every horse. Hmm.

 

[Changes]

I don't think it was the 'rules of racing' that caught him out, apparently, a telephone tip off instigated the PM which did for him.

Nope, that's rubbish. All horses catastrophically injured at Musselburgh have the injured limb cut off to be used by the vet school for research.

There may have been a tip off about the other stuff he was done for, but a tip off wouldn't organise the horse to conveniently break down and then be put down. Really, get a grip ......


ETA, FWIW I think JHJ should have had a life ban, along with the owner.

 

[Changes]

Well obviously not when the racing industry gives bans for them. Yes really! when i work at point2point races and one on the racetrack because it was pushed so hard. I know it happens but racing and SOME (not all) people involved (owners and trainers) are much more ruthless about the horses as they are mostly just income and money for them and arnt always the people who handle them everyday and get attached. Racers are probably more dispensible.

Yes accidents happen in each dicipline, sadly where i worked we lost a couple in racing and being the grooms were the most upset. But that side is kept well away from the people betting.
I dont mean to single out racing as i have seen horrible acts in other disciplines just dont quite agree with all the 'horses always want to race'

I don't think anyone disputes horses are lost racing, and you're wrong, it's not covered up - it's all out there and logged by Wetherbys.

Racers are no more disposable that any other horse. It's just that they are identified for life so can be tracked, unlike SJ/DR/event/endurance horses.

PTP is NOT professional racing - there are a few people who do that who should never be allowed near goldfish, never mind horses. At least with pro racing there are rules in place regarding premises, gallops, licensed persons etc. Unlike any other equine discipline.

There were at least two going round Burghley today.

And really, if you'd like to try and make a horse race that doesn't want to, then I'd get the popcorn out to watch you!

 

[Montys_Mum]

I don't think anyone disputes horses are lost racing, and you're wrong, it's not covered up - it's all out there and logged by Wetherbys.

Racers are no more disposable that any other horse. It's just that they are identified for life so can be tracked, unlike SJ/DR/event/endurance horses.

PTP is NOT professional racing - there are a few people who do that who should never be allowed near goldfish, never mind horses. At least with pro racing there are rules in place regarding premises, gallops, licensed persons etc. Unlike any other equine discipline.

There were at least two going round Burghley today.

And really, if you'd like to try and make a horse race that doesn't want to, then I'd get the popcorn out to watch you!

I never said it was covered up just meant that sometimes the people watching/betting dont know about it.
I never claimed it was professional i know that. And i wasnt talking about the race in question as i watched your link and they looked fine to me. We had horses at the yard who didnt like racing so theres no need to speak to people as if they no nothing at all.

Its just my opinion of what i have experienced while i worked PTP and going to other racing meets, so please dont jump down my thoat and start claiming that i dont have a clue.

 

[tonitot]

Haven't read all the comments so sorry if I repeat anything. I work in racing and on Friday one of our fillies ran over 2miles for the first time (normally runs over 1m2f or 1m6f) When she got back she wouldn't have blown a candle out, you would not have thought she had just raced over 2miles. Horses that are that tired after a race have most probably been ran over the wrong trip, either too short for them and they had to try very hard to keep up or too far and they were too quick for the race. Also after the race the horses are offered a drink immediately and are washes off and kept walking for about half an hour after the race until they stop blowing. If after that time they are still blowing a vet is usually asked to come and check the horse in case of any problems. Some horses give everything in their races and so will obviously be shattered afterwards but so would you if you had tried your absolute hardest to win. Some horses blow up in the race and them horses are normally unfit and in need of the run to get them fitter, I know horses who have looked fat before a run and when they come back from their run they have tucked up a bit and run better next time out.
With the whip I think the general rule is you can hit the horse once evey 3 strides and many jockeys have been banned from over using the whip. I'm
not sure if the once every 3 strides is correct though as Frankie Dettori looked like he gave Rewilding a battering to get him to win the race but I'm pretty sure he got a ban for it. Where I work we very rarely give a horse a smack on the arse going up the gallops (actually I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it where I work, I certainly haven't) so when they get into the last few furlongs of a race and get that first smack they normally respond to it and go on. A lot of jockeys will give a horse 2-3 smacks, realise the horse isn't responding and so stand up and let the horse get home, no point in carrying on smacking them when you're out of the race.
Racing isn't as harsh as everyone thinks, my boss would never sell any if our horses to slaughter. Most that go to the sales that are going to be sold cheap he normally buy them back as to stop them going to slaughter. They are looked after to perfection and our horses get turned out very often, most fillies go out eveyday in a group, geldings go out in a group, colts go out in seperate sqaure paddocks and take it in turns going out. They're treated better than the people looking after them!!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

The rule for whips is that you can hit them once every three strides on the rear end - in a specific area. Go out with the area, mark the horse, use the stick too often and generally make a hash of using it then you get an enforced holiday courtesy of the Stewards. Dettori's ride on Rewiling, whilst a very well planned piece of tactical riding, was utterly destroyed by his over use of the whip - 14 times in the final furlong. That is the most you are allowed to do in the final 3 furlongs let alone the last one! Idiot!

The other half of the whip rule is use of the whip on the shoulder of the horse. This is usually only used as a quick reminder to keep with the pace or to pick up a gear in flat racing. In jump racing to keep them in line for the jumps rather than drifting across them cousing problems and also as a precursor to the take off. Under both codes the whip can be used down the shoulder for steering purposes if a horse is hanging.

Most of the time the whip is more shown than actually used and it is generally far more effective to ride out hands and heels as you are more balanced than trying to flail a whip around.

The whips themselves are padded and chipped so you can scan them to see how many hits they have made.

As Tonitot said - whips are rarely used in work. Most people carry them so they keep their horse up to their work, keep it straight or punish for bad behaviour - TB's at the end of their work tend to be lit up and are more prone to kicking out out of pure excitement and you can't be having that with exspensive horses around.

 

[Lolita]

Personally I'm against the racing industry, whether you agree with racing or not how can you justify the industry on a whole. I've worked a lot with ex racehorses, had a few and the amount I see that are sent to the knackers yard at apt he age of four bcos they've been ruined and no one wants a chaotic tb or my friends 7 year old that won't have a bridle on bcos someone has whacked it so hard over his ear he won't let anyone touch it. I'm against racing on a whole (but I am one of those annoying vegetarian animal rights activists) and as much as eventing pushes a horse I haven't seen any at burghley that have been pushed so hard they need to be given oxygen and water straight away bcos there so dehydrated etc. If you think racingisnt cruel that's fair enough but surely all the left over tbs getting put to sleep all the time isn't justifiable?

 

[Miss L Toe]

Personally I'm against the racing industry, whether you agree with racing or not how can you justify the industry on a whole. I've worked a lot with ex racehorses, had a few and the amount I see that are sent to the knackers yard at apt he age of four bcos they've been ruined and no one wants a chaotic tb or my friends 7 year old that won't have a bridle on bcos someone has whacked it so hard over his ear he won't let anyone touch it. I'm against racing on a whole (but I am one of those annoying vegetarian animal rights activists) and as much as eventing pushes a horse I haven't seen any at burghley that have been pushed so hard they need to be given oxygen and water straight away bcos there so dehydrated etc. If you think racingisnt cruel that's fair enough but surely all the left over tbs getting put to sleep all the time isn't justifiable?

The watering of racehorses after racing is a recent thing, I can't really see that it can be anything other than beneficial.
Eventers are offered water, immedately after the cross country stage, the grooms are ready to wash down and un-tack straight after the finish. I am sure that the vets will have oxygen on standby.
I can understand that you are against healthy horses being sent to the meat trade, but that happens in all sectors, and responsible owners will not send them to low grade sales where this is their fate.
If you have had a few ex racers, I could ask you why? don't you keep your horses for life?. [playing devil's advocate]
Chaotic horses are caused by chaotic riders, and a few may be badly handled, but not many trainers employ staff who upset their charges, it is just not worthwhile.
The racing industry, whether you like it or not, is one of the biggest industries in the UK, it gives employment to many thousands, and provides entertainment to millions worldwide, including people with an interest in other aspects of the horse industry.
There is overbreeding in the TB industry, but this is not unique, too many horses + recession = slaughter or starvation that is an unpleasant fact, we all have to accept, sorry if that upsets the veggie in you, but I assume you don't drink milk, knowing that the poor cows are pushed to the limits to provide the white stuff, and then sent to the dog food factory after four lactations [the bull calves often have to be shot because there is no market for them]
I went to Ripon races last week, and there were no horses pulling up distressed[weather cool and damp], but oxygen would be on hand, as would a horse ambulance, and a team of skilled vets, nothing is left to chance, they are well looked after, compare this with the average horse which is checked every 24 hours by its owner, a lot can happen in 24 hours.

 

[amage]

A trainer actually thought it was okay to denerve a horse's foot so that it could continue to race? Wtf?!! I would hope this attitude is very rare indeed!

Incredibly rare in racing....not so rare in Show Jumping in the late 90s to about 05/06!! Usually done by idiots with no regard for the consequences. And one thing worth noting is that with betting on races a trainer can get in trouble for running a horse that is not right be it lame, virus etc. if trainer is found to have known this prior to the race particularly if horse is well backed then they can be investigated. This is why often times when you read calendar notices there will be explanations declared following vet exam for a poor run. How many sjers, eventers etc are "managed" to keep them on the road? An awful lot! Yes it does happen in racing but not to the same extent due to far higher incidence of dope testing etc.

 

[amage]

Personally I'm against the racing industry, whether you agree with racing or not how can you justify the industry on a whole. I've worked a lot with ex racehorses, had a few and the amount I see that are sent to the knackers yard at apt he age of four bcos they've been ruined and no one wants a chaotic tb or my friends 7 year old that won't have a bridle on bcos someone has whacked it so hard over his ear he won't let anyone touch it. I'm against racing on a whole (but I am one of those annoying vegetarian animal rights activists) and as much as eventing pushes a horse I haven't seen any at burghley that have been pushed so hard they need to be given oxygen and water straight away bcos there so dehydrated etc. If you think racingisnt cruel that's fair enough but surely all the left over tbs getting put to sleep all the time isn't justifiable?

Number of HORSES getting pts all the time...not just tbs is huge. And PTS is far far kinder than leaving them to starve or letting somebody who is not capable of handling them go off with the horse putting the new rider and the horse at risk. the words "chaotic" tb just show how little you know because(yes it's not spelt bcos....people prefer English on this forum) you are getting on the whole tbs/ex racers are lunatics bandwagon so YOU are actually doing further damage to these fabulous horses as you are generalising them and putting people off them. Again I will extend an invitation to our yard...a racing yard where you will not find the remotest indication of any cruelty....unless you consider horses being let get muddy and enjoy themselves cruel!!

 

[Miss L Toe]

A trainer actually thought it was okay to denerve a horse's foot so that it could continue to race? Wtf?!! I would hope this attitude is very rare indeed!

He lost his licence, and his job, and his reputation, all totally deserved in my opinion. He even complained that he had been "let down" by someone tipping off the authorities!
Why the owner "stood by him" is difficult to understand, he must also take a share of the moral responsibility, the fact is they still think they were "in the right"
His vets also got their deserts, and I hope they will totally lose out financially as well as professionally.
This sort of thing brings down their respective professions to the level of pure greed and total lack of respect for the horse.

 

[equischool]

You can go to any race yard and you will find that their horses are often treated much better than a lot of people look after their kids in this country. I am sure there are exceptions, but you will find exceptions in any stable regardless of the equine discipline.
People often mistake being exhausted after a sport as being unfit, which is completely un-true. Being fit is judged by how quickly you recover.
A 100m human sprinter will be unable to talk after a race as he/her would be gasping for oxygen...are they un-fit, is the sport cruel..of course not..later in the day the same athlete would take part in the next heat or if run well the finals...The same would be said for a marathon runner who may the next week go on to run another full marathon, the footballer or rugby player who would get the next day off and then be back into full training and so on, so don't get too hung up on any creature or any human being tired at the end of a race, that is what happens when you give your all.
As for the comment that a couple of race horses have died from heart attack from being pushed too hard. Yes that is a great shame, but that too happens in every walk of life. I used to play soccer with someone whom that happened to and he was just 22 years old. Heart disease is often un-detected and can strike anyone at anytime, someone you think may be super fit on the outside, could have a timebomb ticking on the inside, so again to single out a racehorse is unfairly negative, but of course you are allowed your opinion.
The race whip is a point that comes up everytime and personally however padded it is, I would like it done away with. If everyone raced without a whip then it would be fair...but you do have to argue is using a whip for correction ok in any other discipline, if you ban it in racing?..if your thought is to ban it in racing because it is cruel, is it ok in any other form as a tool for correction or punishment? Personally again, I think it is ok if used for correction but for punishment definately not...a fine line for many riders regardless out there, as the numerous post on here will show...just yesterday another appeared regarding a well loved and respected rider at Burghley. So to the OP I am sorry you did not enjoy your day at the races and will not go again, but I personally love the day out and all that it brings.

 

[Aces_High]

OP you obviously know very little about racing and I definitely think it is not for you. The horse that was 66/1 was running in the Sprint Cup which is a Group 1 race for prize money of £235800. He was 66/1 due to the fact that he was fairly ourclasses in that race. He is far from inexperienced having won 6 races from 26 runs. Jockeys DO NOT whip and thrash horses repeatedly...nor do they use a crop! They use properly padded racing whips which are mild. if you "thrashed" a horse with a normal thin crop or dressage whip you would do some serious damage...in my years of racing I have once seen a horse marked and that horses jockey got raked over the coals and a serious ban. It was later noted that said horse had been clipped the morning before he ran and as such his skin was much more sensitive. As someone who works in the industry I find your closed minded generalisations disgusting...and very very ignorant. By all means feel free to visit our yard any time....we work bloody hard to keep our horses happy, healthy, full of fun and life. They go to the field every day, they have fun and enjoy their lives. In the meantime please stop commenting so ignorantly on a sport which you blatantly don't understand. Oh and for what its worth...having watched the video of the race where you claim horses were exhausted...said horse seems to be fairly onepaced and finds no extra...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't! Certainly does not look "exhausted". I am not aware of whether the BHA publish their calendar notices but the Irish Turf Club do....any question mark over any horse's run, jockey's ride, trainers decisions or overuse of whip etc are published as is the enquiry and punishment. The sport is incredibly heavily policed.

FINALLY SOME SENSE.

I've never read so much tosh in my life. I must admit watching Burghley yesterday there were a few horses which I think should have pulled up. But the riders know what they are doing and they are competing on top class horses and one would assume they wouldn't risk them for a way down the field result just by completing.

Might be an emotive subject for some of the posters in this thread but YES a whip is important in racing. Both on the flat and NH. Keeping a horse straight is paramount for the safety of horses and jockeys around you. Unless you've ridden in a race you will not understand how close and the pace which is being travelled.

I feel a lot of people on HHO need a great deal of education on racing. Therefore any questions them please do throw them at me...... You can ask anything and I will answer.

I would also be happy to pass on any constructive comments to Racing For Change.

 

[Aces_High]

Personally I'm against the racing industry, whether you agree with racing or not how can you justify the industry on a whole. I've worked a lot with ex racehorses, had a few and the amount I see that are sent to the knackers yard at apt he age of four bcos they've been ruined and no one wants a chaotic tb or my friends 7 year old that won't have a bridle on bcos someone has whacked it so hard over his ear he won't let anyone touch it. I'm against racing on a whole (but I am one of those annoying vegetarian animal rights activists) and as much as eventing pushes a horse I haven't seen any at burghley that have been pushed so hard they need to be given oxygen and water straight away bcos there so dehydrated etc. If you think racingisnt cruel that's fair enough but surely all the left over tbs getting put to sleep all the time isn't justifiable?

Have a look at when the Olympics were in Atlanta.......