I will probably get shouted at for this, but....

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Horses don't sleep like we do. They don't come in at night and think 'ahhh bed time' and if they come in in the day time think 'oh ffs now I've got to sleep in the field tonight'.

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Mine does!
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Honestly, she loves nothing more than to snuggle up in her bed. And she actually does 'nest' in it - I have watched her paw great amounts of her banks into the middle (as if being 2ft deep in straw wasnt enough
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) and sink into it - she really does love it. Maybe she's just unusual then? I cannot deny that I have known many horses who dont lie down that much, so perhaps Ellie is just an odd bod
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the reason they paw at a deep bed, is because they are unsure of whats under it..so making sure its safe to lie dow...nothing to do with them "nesting" or whatever other name you wish to put on it.
 
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IMO although I know they don't have to be kept dirty like that , I think rubber mats with no proper bed are for ' tight' or lazy people who can't be bothered to bed a horse nicely.


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lol

This shall be a long thread then
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the reason they paw at a deep bed, is because they are unsure of whats under it..so making sure its safe to lie dow...nothing to do with them "nesting" or whatever other name you wish to put on it.

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I'm not going to argue with you - for most horses, that is probably the case
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I read somewhere that horses are 'not nest builders', and I think that's the way to look at it.

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My horse definitely isn't a nest builder, he's a grotty dirtbag! I deep litter (just the wet) and when he goes into his stable, he digs up the whole of the back bank, all of the wet in the middle and then proceeds to roll in it and rub his face in the wee. He does this regardless of whether he has 3 ft of bedding or 3in
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He also buries poo in all sorts of places because he knows that I just *love* to have to dig through the whole bed every day...

On a serious note, I don't like to see mats with only a little bit of bedding on. I wouldn't put a full down on rubber matting but there needs to be enough to soak the wee up (mostly so that it doesn't just get soaked up in to his rugs).
 
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IMO although I know they don't have to be kept dirty like that , I think rubber mats with no proper bed are for ' tight' or lazy people who can't be bothered to bed a horse nicely.


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lol

This shall be a long thread then
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I thought it might be!
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Ponio has rubber mats in the stable, she loves to get down and have a good roll and they give her more grip and help her get up (she is 29, so not so nimble on her feet
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) I give her decent banks and a good base on the rubber as well, but I'm not talking feet deep on the mats. The banks would be a few feet deep, the base more inches deep. That is shavings BTW. This is due more to her rolling and I don't want her getting cast.
 
I can see what you mean but after looking after my own (traditional straw bed on concrete) and then another on rubber matting with a 2inch deep shavings just in the corner (for the mare to wee/poo on) boy was it easy to muck out!
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...I was nearly converted, only took about 5 minutes.

But why deep bed on rubber? if you can't prick the bottom of the bed with your pitch folk then the bed is not good enough to soak up the wet and secondly to prevent any bangs/scraps when rolling or getting up/down to lay down if on concrete, which you don't need on rubber (you only have to worry about absobing the wet), but then again the rubber matting can absolutely stink once the urine gets between the grooves.

However on a deep straw bed I do think in winter you get a bit more warmth from a deeper bed, be it on rubber or concrete.

I'd go with rubber if I had a nice clean animal that poo/wee's nicely in the corner or in one place on the shavings I'd definitely go with the rubber flooring.

But with my horse who messes anywhere
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, there would be no point, it would take longer hosing the rubber matting down and cleaning it all up after him.
 
I have one on deep littered straw, and one on mats and shavings. The shavings bed is only 1-2inches deep, with banks.

She lies on the mats out of choice as she lays down on the mats in the day in summer, when she gets no bed. Both have been in each others stables, and it doesn't change how much time they spend lying down.

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Aesthetically, I like the look of a deep bed but pratically, Hattie with her COPD, all she gets is rubber mats and a little bit of Aubiose in the corner where she wees and poos. She's only in the stable in the dead of winter as I try to keep her out 24/7 as then she is cough free.

She eats all of her straw bedding so had to stop even using a bit in the corner, and if I deep litter even with dust free shavings like Aubiose or Hemcore (which sadly, is no more..WAH!!!), then she gets her cough back and a drippy nose.

Bare mats and a bit of Aubiose in the corner keeps her cough and drippy nose free and the matts are quite thick and I know she lays down on those.
 
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Horses don't sleep like we do. They don't come in at night and think 'ahhh bed time' and if they come in in the day time think 'oh ffs now I've got to sleep in the field tonight'.

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Mine does!
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Honestly, she loves nothing more than to snuggle up in her bed. And she actually does 'nest' in it - I have watched her paw great amounts of her banks into the middle (as if being 2ft deep in straw wasnt enough
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) and sink into it - she really does love it. Maybe she's just unusual then? I cannot deny that I have known many horses who dont lie down that much, so perhaps Ellie is just an odd bod
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Got to agree with you on this one, my boys love nothing better than coming in and snuggling up in a nice thick straw bed and they will lie there all night not moving or making and sound. And the proof i know that... thier normally still asleep when i go out to give them their breakfasts or their up, covered in straw, big dips where they've been lying and the straw is still warm and they always look nice and refreshed, where as atm they've been out for a week and look haggard and knackered.
 
I agree with JM in that horses do not nest- its not a case of "oh well mine does" because its just not in their nature. They are digging to see whether there are any nasties in the bed, I stand by my logic- my big big beds are not for them to snuggle in, they are to stop my gangly legged hunters smashing their legs on the sides of the wall.
 
Mine are on rubber mats and shavings. It has been hard for me to give up my 'old' ways as I always had my horses on the thickest straw or shavings beds you have ever seen!
The one thing I will never get rid off is my good high, thick banks. As others may have said this is to prevent them getting cast, keeps the draughts off them, stops scrapes from the walls etc. The actual bed is in no way as thick as a normal bed....what is the point of having rubber matting if you are going to do that?
Mine have a thin bed of about 1-2 inches. It is plenty to soak up wee and eases my 'mummy' mentality of giving them something comfortable to lie on. As I never disturb my banks (and strangely neither do the horses trying to make a 'nest') my beds take literally 5 minutes a day to muck out and each one has half a bale of shavings a week.

As for the keeping them warm arguement, I rug my horses according to the temperature so I've never really thought of the bed as a way of keeping them warm.
 
I think this is an example of how people can perhaps anthropomorphize a bit too much when it comes to horses!

For me it depends a lot on how good the drainage is in your stable. I'd bed with good quality mats and an inch or two of shavings if the stable drained well, but I wouldn't if it didn't as I wouldn't want my horse lying in more urine than the shavings could soak up.

My last horse only used to poo in one half of his stable, so I kept that half bare with just a sprinkling of shavings over it overnight, and put him down a shavings bed of about 6 inches in the other half.

Each to their own, provided the horse is happy and healthy who cares!
 
I worked for some time on a full livery yard as the weekend groom (to give the weekday groom 2 days off) and I have to say although rubber matts are quicker i find them stinky and dirtier. They often look like a bomb has gone off- including a stink bomb. Once a month we had to lift the mats up and hose under them and disinfect and the runnoff from those boxes was horrific. I think they are good as long as they are given adequate shavings to absorb the urine. The only 2 boxes on the 14 box yard that were not smelly were the two owned by a doctor who bedded the horses with rubber mats plus an inch of shavings over half the stable. It was quick to clean and the wee was always absorbed so the rugs didnt stink when you took thm off. We didnt have straw beds on that yard unless it was vacuum packed chopped straw which I loved - easy to muck out took me 15 min per box (and that including having to sweep the banks level with a broom- YO was meticulous) I like a decent bed because concrete scrapes skin and is cold in winter- so I make sure the bed has enough depth to protect from scrapes - I still dont like rubber mats as I find them too disgusting.
 
it all depends, on a busy comp yard then fair enough rubber matting and small bed but if like me you have loads of time to muck out everyday then a big bed is nice. But its personal preference, its small bed on concreat I hate seeing!
 
thick straw only because Frank would otherwise have nothing to have a good roll in.

Ours are currently a bit tired because they don't sleep so well in the field and are quite happy to lie down and have a nap when they come in for a bit ATM. However I think this is more to do with the fact that they fell safer in their stables (ie noone has to be on guard) than in the field rather than the fact they have a straw bed, they very occaionally lie in the field.
 
I have rubber matting down in the stable, which means I only need to put straw down on half the stable, with banks all round, so he poos on the rubber and wees on the straw, which makes it easier to muck out and more hygienic - his poo, wee and bedding are not getting mushed in together.
 
I have a horse which is the most sensitive little flower on the planet but she is happy with a thin layer of flax on good quality rubber mats. Our yard does use banks in the flax, mainly because most of the horses are quite big and need a bit of protection from knocks when getting up and down.
My mare quite likes to wee in these, to avoid any splashing, but is also quite content to wee on the centre of the floor if the haynet is too much of a distraction. She will also happily lie down in the centre of the floor.
She does get dirty (is grey!) from time to time and needs a wardrobe of good rugs (a lightweight turnout is a winner on pre-show nights) but the combination of minimal bed and a well ventilated yard with all the other horses on the same system really helps her COPD.
We came across some really spongy rubber mats - no idea what make - when away at a show which are used with just a sprinkle of bed. I could have slept on those myself and she loved them!
 
QR, have you ever lay down in a field? Harder than rubber mats. horses lie down just as much on rubber mats as they do outside. I prefer a bucket of bedding in there to stop splashes but don't have a problem with none at all.
 
We put beds down to protect the horses joints from injury on concrete floors basically. They also have the added (but vital) bonus of absorbing urine and thus preventing the equivalent of nappy rash and reducing the amount of ammonia wafting up the nasal passages into the lungs.

BUT my experience of rubber mats is caring for a friends horse while she goes on holiday - she uses just a skim of bedding to stop splashing - the stable STINKS, the horse STINKS, the rug STINKS and the rubber mats are a slippery as ice. It doesn't help that her horse likes to dip hay in its water and drip it all over the place so the floor is doubly wet and slippery.

As for horses not nesting - another friend has a big chap who carefully paws extra bedding away from the banks into the middle of the stable every night and lies down on it. I do think they like to have a dry surface given the choice although aren't bothered if it isn't available. I drive past some gypsy brood mares on my way to work and it is very noticeable that they deliberately like to lie down on the bare concrete raft surrounding a structure in their field.
 
I think some horses prefer a deep bed, and would certainly prefer to see arthritics/oldies on an "old fashioned" bed with banks over plain rubber mats and a sprinkle of whatever. Thats if they had to come in at night - I'd always prefer all horses out 24/7 but its not always practical, and there are some who do worse out than in at night.

We have, after all domesticated the horse, and whilst we may make all reasonable efforts to make their life as natural as possible, how many horses call/bang on their doors when they see a person at feed time, for example? That's not natural horse behaviour either.

I guess each owner knows deep down if their horse really prefers a deep bed or if it really couldn't care less - but that's deep down, and I suspect the basis of this debate is people stereotyping horse's behaviour to be like a human, vs people saying all horses act as they would in the wild. I think the true answer is its not possible to cast sweeping statements either way, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
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This is something I was pondering over the weekend as my boy was sedated on Friday afternoon for some treatment and so stayed in overnight. He has rubber matting and normally has a thin shavings (sometimes mixed with shredded paper) bed over the top (about an inch) with smallish banks over the back half of his stable. His stable is huge so this is still a big bed (about 8ft by 12ft) he has never scraped a leg on the wall or got cast. Friday night, because I felt sorry for him and thought he deserved an extra comfy lie down, I gave him a deep bed.

He behaved no differently. He pooed at the front of his stable because he spends most of his time with his head over the door or eating out of his haybar at the other front corner, did one wee within 5 minutes of getting into his stable right at the back and didn't lie down. He sometimes lies down after he's been coming in for months in the winter and got used to it , but until that happens he won't lie down. I now know this is nothing to do with his bed but is just what he does.

It was a lot more work in the morning though, especially as he's not used to staying in at the moment and he clearly box walked a fair bit and kicked quite a lot of his poo into the deep bed. I was mucking out for ages. I won't be doing it again! The only downsides to rubber and a thin bed are having to lift it and clean the stable every year (a horrible job!) and smelly rugs (he wears his turnout rugs in the stable as well so they're waterproof). They're all clean on the inside so he desn't get wet or suffer for it. He's only in in the winter so is always rugged and doesn't get it over him. In the summer however out in the field he goes out of his way to roll in sheep poo. Horses don't care if they're dirty - we do.

We all set routines for our horses according to our convenience and beliefs and the sort of bed we have is part of that. I firmly believe horses don't notice any difference and we choose the sort of bed we give them according to what we feel, not what they feel. If those who had rubber and a deep bed tried their horses on a thinner bed I doubt very much the horse would care or change his behaviour, but the owners have a pre-conceived idea of what is best or what their horses like. There's nothing wrong with that. If you want to make extra work for yourself, that's up to you but I don't think criticising people for not doing what they perceive to be correct is fair. As long as the horse is happy and healthy what sort of bed they have really doesn't matter.
 
QR: I think too it depends on the individual horsekeeping skills of the owner too!

Yes, I agree that rubber mats can get stinky but I wash mine down every week and put a deep layer of Stalasan underneath the mats to absorb the wee run off. It kills bacteria and neutralizes the ammonia so you get stink free mats! I also wash down the concrete in the area where she wees with pine cleaner to kill anything before putting the Stalasan down and Hattie's stable NEVER gets stinky.

Lazy I'm not thank you very much!!
 
My horses all live out 24/7 but my ponies at home have a shelter which has rubber mats down with no bedding at all....I am not tight or lazy btw
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My ponies have access to an acre of paddock plus the shelter and 9 times out of 10 choose to lie down on the rubber matting...usually on the poo too
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They would just eat a straw bed lol
 
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Horses don't sleep like we do. They don't come in at night and think 'ahhh bed time' and if they come in in the day time think 'oh ffs now I've got to sleep in the field tonight'.

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Mine does!
blush.gif
Honestly, she loves nothing more than to snuggle up in her bed. And she actually does 'nest' in it - I have watched her paw great amounts of her banks into the middle (as if being 2ft deep in straw wasnt enough
smirk.gif
) and sink into it - she really does love it. Maybe she's just unusual then? I cannot deny that I have known many horses who dont lie down that much, so perhaps Ellie is just an odd bod
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I'm talking about times, though, MizElz! They don't come in at 10pm, get into bed, snuggle up and sleep deeply until 8am! I know some horses lie down more than others, but those horses will do it at any time of day, not just night time!
 
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IMO although I know they don't have to be kept dirty like that , I think rubber mats with no proper bed are for ' tight' or lazy people who can't be bothered to bed a horse nicely.


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Yep, that's right, because brushing the mats down, cleaning them with jeyes fluid and ensuring they are dry for your horse to go back in, is lazy isn't it?

Just accept that for some horses, for eg ones who make a mess of any bed they are given - George used to do this before I found Aquamax and I nearly gave up on giving him a bed - a very small sprinkling of bedding is better.

Just because one way works for you, don't judge others who choose to use another way. No one is sat here calling all those who believe their horses need 10ft deep straw beds, prissy and fluffy, so just stop being so judgemental about those who choose to treat their horses like horses!
 
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Yes but you were talking about horses lying down to sleep and saying you'd give a deeper bed to a horse that was in at night so it could lie down to sleep, but a smaller bed is OK for daytime, presumably because they don't lie down and sleep during the day?

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Like I just said I'm baseing this off horses I know, I don't know your horse and know they're all different. However the majority of the horses on my yard ar in during the day and not one of them lies down. I know this because I'm there most of the day and when you muck them out and check them over you can tell if they've lay down or not.
So yes I know every horse is different but I'm not saying it's the same for every horse I'm just writing about how I find it works for me and the horses I know.
I know many horses sleep during the day, mine being one of them, both standing and laying down but she's out so she just lies on the floor.

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Horses don't always lie down to sleep! Horses do not, scientific fact, sleep for several hours in one block and then stay awake for the rest of the 24 hours... whether they lie down or not. I responded to your post because you said a horse needed deeper bedding at night so they could lie down (to sleep), but it depends on a horse's turnout regime when they lie down, when they sleep, how often they sleep etc. They don't go to bed at night like we do. They might lie down more at night, but some horses don't lie down at all - that's not to do with sleeping, as those horses will doze standing up! My horse doesn't need a deep bed to be encouraged to doze - he will do it wherever, including in the middle of a ride when we stop for a drink!
 
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I don't like rubber anyway, I would personally never use it.
My horse has a HUGE straw bed. I know he is not a duck, and I know he has no bed in the field- but in his field he does not have four breeze block walls to scrape his precious legs up... hence my complete obsession with HUGE banks.
My friend at uni kept her horse on a tiny amount of shavings- it was constantly cast and had bumps and scrapes all over it, which I think is horrible.

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I do kind of see this way of thinking - I think if you are going to have banks they need to be huge to make a difference.

Overall, I think it depends on the horse as to whether you have a big bed -
Do they lie down at all, and when?
Are they messy?
Do they lie in their own poo even when there is a bed (our mare used to and she did poos all over the bed)?
 
I do not like to see no bed at all on matting in particular as i think there needs to be something to soak up wee etc.
However, i do not think they need vast amounts of bed, they are quite happy to lay down on the short grass, i think some owners over do it in honesty.

Where stone or concrete floors are concerned one does need a substantial bed imo to avoid the horse hurting themselves on the stone floor
 
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