I wouldnt get into this tin either!!! (PAT P:)

What exactly is the problem with the trailer? Apart from the step up it looks just like a trailer to me and I know lots of horses load better without a ramp than with :confused:
 
Goldenstar, yes by all means run round giving people *******ings if that's what you want.
Yep, Parelli can be pretty stupid at times. So can everyone else, he just puts it out, mistakes an all.

What he didn't do was beat the horse up, squeeze its face in a pressure halter. Put a harsh bit in, a rope over its nose, a chain in its mouth, a rope round its arse and ten people pushing it in, or try and fool it with food.
 
Pale Rider said:
What he didn't do was beat the horse up, squeeze its face in a pressure halter. Put a harsh bit in, a rope over its nose, a chain in its mouth, a rope round its arse and ten people pushing it in, or try and fool it with food.
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very true but i don't think waving that damn stick around in the horses face is a method i would let anyone use on any of mine.
Just out of interest PR, what do you think of Mark Rashid?
 
Jesstinsel said:
What exactly is the problem with the trailer? Apart from the step up it looks just like a trailer to me and I know lots of horses load better without a ramp than with :confused:
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I've never seen one without a ramp before (though heard them mentioned - but do we get them in the UK?). Gotta say it looks like the most oppressive, off-putting little cupboard and I can't imagine a horse not having an issue with it!

Disclaimer: not saying plenty don't take issue, or that it's off-putting to a horse, or anything really! Just that's how it seems to me, the first time I've seen one of them.
 
Pale Rider said:
Goldenstar, yes by all means run round giving people *******ings if that's what you want.

PR I never lose my temper ( except with my OH and thats different )never give staff whatever you meanlt by *******ing
I train my staff to focus on the horse always every moment every interaction any thing else is a disrespect to the horse and not doing your job .
PP is supposed to be a professional that was not professional.
The only NH person I watched personally load was Richard Maxwell he loaded a very difficult case very nicely done, focused on the horse not on it's simpering owner( not that that owner was simpering ) safe well executed work.
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Jen_Cots said:
However he was in an arena with a surface, not concrete. You can see it was a cock up.

Although personally I like to teach all my horses (in the safety of an arena) to have a dangly rope and stop when they stand on it. Extremely handy if they ever get loose and stops them panicking and pulling away.
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Not sure what surface Ned was on, he didn't fall out, he jumped out and caught his back. It was a mistake, yes, so was Ned, but it was a mistake that should never have happened to either. I make mistakes all the time, but 1) I'm not a professional who charges far too much and 2) I don't stand there grinning like a muppet, I think "Damn!!" Go get the horse and learn for next time.

I'm not complaining about his methods getting it in the trailer (apart from waggling the whip in it's face) and I have seen worse at shows etc, it just really makes me cringe to see it escape like that.
 
Floxie said:
I've never seen one without a ramp before (though heard them mentioned - but do we get them in the UK?). Gotta say it looks like the most oppressive, off-putting little cupboard and I can't imagine a horse not having an issue with it!

Disclaimer: not saying plenty don't take issue, or that it's off-putting to a horse, or anything really! Just that's how it seems to me, the first time I've seen one of them.
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Bateson will do you barn doors and a step up if you prefer I think (although you do get a pull down ramp even then but I wouldn't bother :p).

All trailers are horrible little cupboards. If he'd opened both doors I think it would have looked like pretty much any other trailer :confused: Why my mare loads so happily on to the trailer I do not know. I wouldn't if I were her! lol
 
Ruth_Cymru said:
He seems to have quite a high opinion of himself, and without much regard for the horse. Don't have much of a problem with the trailer, although would have liked both back doors to be open. But the way he was with the horse? Not inspiring.
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I remember reading somewhere that the other side has a tack locker, so the door doesn't open.

PP makes my skin crawl. He cares more about money than anything else.
 
This business of ramps is interesting, you get used to all trailers having ramps here in the UK. Not so in other parts of the world, someone said to me that a horse doesn't need a ramp, it's not disabled is it? That made me think.

Also if it will be confident enough to step up into a wobbling trailer, it's not going to be too bothered when the journey starts.

All this is about confidence, the horse having the confidence to step in and out every time it's asked.

As for the bogging off bit at the end, he did right not trapping it in the box, it would have been taken out anyway, just a bit more of a controlled exit would have been good.

Pays to keep your mind on the job and on the horse.
 
Jen_Cots said:
Sorry - what's the problem??

I've seen people with lunge lines, brooms and beating their horses to load.... this isn't bad

Perhaps you should head out to some local shows???
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Absolutely nothing wrong with this demo, he asks the horse to get in the trailer, he waits patiently while the horse explores his options, what if I duck out that way, this way. No I need you to go in. Horse tries it thinks maybe I can do it, tries a few more options and goes in without being forced or beaten. The horse makes the decision, PP just waiting for that to happen.

And I think it is good that they are relaxed and laid back about it rather than stressed and rushing which the horse will always pick up on.

At pony club I have seen gangs of people forcing horses into trailers, I have evene heard about people picking the horse up (4 people ) and putting it in the trailer.

I have trained all my horses to load using this method, and it works, they lose any fear of the trailer.
 
Pale Rider said:
Fair amount of crap posted on this thread, as usual when the P word gets a mention.

Seen so much really poor detrimental techniques used in show car parks all the time.

Of course he cocked up st the end, not a massive issue.

Interesting how much energy he used round the horse, rather than trying to sneak the horse on the trailer like is usually seen.
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I had a horse that was a real problem loader, would throw himself around the float. The more energy he got used to me having around the trailer, the less he was concerend about strange bangings and noises while he was in the trailer.

I used to having him waiting to load, and would wave stick around "accidently " banging on trailer with it, in the end he just stopped worrying about whatever I was doing, instead of panicking and trying to leave the trailer at the first sound or sudden movement. There is a purpose in what Pat does, it is not necessarily obvious unless you have seen and heard him talk about why and what he does.

I am forever greatful that I am now confident in training and loading horses, whereas before I was too afraid to attempt to go anywhere. I know that I can get my horse on the trailer, even if it is a year between trips.
 
I posted this as a response to the vid on youtube...

the first para seems to apply to some of the posters on here too
(is a guy who only hits his wife with his fists ok, because you've seen some guys use baseball bats??)

he puts himself out there as a world expert...
there are MUCH better ways of achieiving this

Parelli is a BUSINESS
not a valid, caring horse training method

with regard to the 2 above:-
I'm in awe of the skill they display with regard to the first
and disgusted with what their 'skill' produces, with regard to the latter

>>

Just amazed at how so many people think that if someone charges a lot, they must know what they're doing...

unfortunately, for those who don't speak French, what Pat is saying about how to use a stick on a horse is drowned out by the translation, - if you think you're pi**ed with him now, I assure you you would be incandescent if you knew what he was boasting about with his 'method' of using a stick... (I DO speak French, so know what they translated)
 
Always nice and divisive, Parelli, lol. Lots of things I don't agree with about Parelli, but lots of things I do, just like any other NH trainer.

These sorts of arguements have been going on for the last twenty yrs that I know about.

I'm not really interested in having to justify what he does or why its done, I and thousands of others know whats going on in the video, and I'm happy with that.

This horse is a problem loader, yet with very little effort he loads it.

Couple more vids of horses loading using the Parelli method, make of it what you will.:)

http://youtu.be/IQF2wfZmyeE
http://youtu.be/zzbkRpBXM48
 
PR - I'm not asking you to justify the wafting of the stick in the horse's face, I'm just asking why he does it - genuinely - what does it achieve? What is the reason for it? What message does it give to the horse? It's just something I've never considered doing, because I don't know what I would be trying to achieve by doing it. Can you just give me the reason?
 
Holly Hocks said:
PR - I'm not asking you to justify the wafting of the stick in the horse's face, I'm just asking why he does it - genuinely - what does it achieve? What is the reason for it? What message does it give to the horse? It's just something I've never considered doing, because I don't know what I would be trying to achieve by doing it. Can you just give me the reason?
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It's pretty clear I think, he wants the horse to turn it's head away. Most of us would turn our heads away if a stick was waved by our face, and horses are the same. (If anyone reads this comment as me being a Parelli "follower" please think again).
 
Tinypony said:
It's pretty clear I think, he wants the horse to turn it's head away. Most of us would turn our heads away if a stick was waved by our face, and horses are the same. (If anyone reads this comment as me being a Parelli "follower" please think again).
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Thanks TP (closet PP follower! ;)) but I think I'll try to stay away from that approach.
 
I would if I were you Hollyhocks. There are other ways to get a horse to move it's head away aren't there? Obviously a horse would need to learn to turn it's head away from a stick for "Carrot Stick riding" (without reins) to work.
 
Tiny is right in what he is doing, there is quite a lot going on here, but it really is a difficult piece of film because it has been cut about so much.

The horse is upping the anti at some stage and becoming very excited, Parelli then uses more energy himself to match the horse's level.

The stick is being wafted as you put it, to form a barrier in front of the head but in two ways, a physical barrier and an energy barrier, but not directed at the horse. The horse will be reluctant to barge through the dual barrier.

The temptation is when horses display this sort of escalating energy to shut them down. No one likes it when they rear and start waving their legs about. By keeping on shutting them down, the horse never really comes to terms with the situation, whatever it is, if you match the energy, or the tantrum or whatever, they quickly stop this sort of behaviour and concentrate on what you want them to do.
 
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Pale Rider said:
Tiny is right in what he is doing, there is quite a lot going on here, but it really is a difficult piece of film because it has been cut about so much.

The horse is upping the anti at some stage and becoming very excited, Parelli then uses more energy himself to match the horse's level.

The stick is being wafted as you put it, to form a barrier in front of the head but in two ways, a physical barrier and an energy barrier, but not directed at the horse. The horse will be reluctant to barge through the dual barrier.

The temptation is when horses display this sort of escalating energy to shut them down. No one likes it when they rear and start waving their legs about. By keeping on shutting them down, the horse never really comes to terms with the situation, whatever it is, if you match the energy, or the tantrum or whatever, they quickly stop this sort of behaviour and concentrate on what you want them to do.
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Then having got them to do as you wish you quickly loose concerntation and let the horse Er do it's thing.
 
Pale Rider said:
Tiny is right in what he is doing, there is quite a lot going on here, but it really is a difficult piece of film because it has been cut about so much.

The horse is upping the anti at some stage and becoming very excited, Parelli then uses more energy himself to match the horse's level.

The stick is being wafted as you put it, to form a barrier in front of the head but in two ways, a physical barrier and an energy barrier, but not directed at the horse. The horse will be reluctant to barge through the dual barrier.

The temptation is when horses display this sort of escalating energy to shut them down. No one likes it when they rear and start waving their legs about. By keeping on shutting them down, the horse never really comes to terms with the situation, whatever it is, if you match the energy, or the tantrum or whatever, they quickly stop this sort of behaviour and concentrate on what you want them to do.
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Do you REALLY think this was a good demo on teaching a horse to load?? The poor horse jumped into the trailer to get away from the prat - then jumped out and made his escape! It was lousy horsemanship at its worse!

Parelli was winding the horse up - making loading a not very pleasant experience. The horse was frightened - he didn't help it in any way! Probably a good thing he was too busy trying to come on to its owner that he didn't see it about to leap out - it would have mown him down!
 
Goldenstar said:
Then having got them to do as you wish you quickly loose concerntation and let the horse Er do it's thing.
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Your focusing on the wrong thing, why focus on the black dot on a clean sheet.

This is why I rarely get drawn into the 'whatabout' arguements.

I'm not really interested in Parelli and his works, but I am in Natural Horsemanship, and in fairness to Parelli he has raised the profile of NH.

As I've said these arguments go on and on, I'm not really arsed about other folk, but, my horses don't have any of the 'behavioural problems' I constantly read about on here, so, I'm happy with that.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Do you REALLY think this was a good demo on teaching a horse to load?? The poor horse jumped into the trailer to get away from the prat - then jumped out and made his escape! It was lousy horsemanship at its worse!

Parelli was winding the horse up - making loading a not very pleasant experience. The horse was frightened - he didn't help it in any way! Probably a good thing he was too busy trying to come on to its owner that he didn't see it about to leap out - it would have mown him down!
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Thats your opinion and your welcome to it, I really cannot be arsed.

I remember that video of you and the rolled up towel. I thought that was a bit prattish as well.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Wrong - the black dot was a result of the so-called 'clean sheet'! The horse was effectively forced onto the trailer - it was frightened, it didn't want to be there, so it left. What on earth makes you think it will want to go on again!
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True! I bet if one of us posted a video of us doing the same thing, we'd be lynched! I doubt one member would defend our actions.
 
Pale Rider said:
Thats your opinion and your welcome to it, I really cannot be arsed.

I remember that video of you and the rolled up towel. I thought that was a bit prattish as well.
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But it was effective - so you thought wrong! That mare was SO terrified of being touched nothing could be done with her. She ended up backed and riding sensibly and not scared of any normal handling. We discovered the reasons for her fear - and treated her successfully - and as a result, her owner can now do anything with her!

And if you can't be arsed - why are you here??:rolleyes:
 
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