I'd love a border collie - but should I?

[sue_ellen]

I don't think I have ever posted here before but I would really appreciate opinions/advice. Appollogies in advance - I think this will be long!

First of all, I am 57 and retired. Gave up riding 4 years ago due to arthritic knees and spine. I am not an experienced dog owner but I have had Poppy , who is a Lhasa Apso, since she was a puppy. She is now 9yo.
We go for a long walk (2 - 3 miles) every day, and she is as fit as a fiddle and definitely does not look her age. I absolutely adore her and our walks are my main form of excercise.

I would love another dog, in particular a Border Collie. We had them at home when I was a kid. I would love to expand the sort of "hobby" side of dog ownership, and I particularly love the idea of Dog Agillity. I think it would be great to get involved with other like minded people, maybe join a club, maybe even get the chance to compete - you never know!

I have several things holding me back - is it fair to Poppy? She's not terribly fond of other dogs but is ok if they leave her alone. I have quite a few friends who have introduced a new puppy to an older dog and they have all done it successfully.
And would it be fair to my new puppy? If Poppy hated it I would have to find it a new home and I would be upset and also feel guilty for making the mistake and upsetting them both which is the last thing i would want to do.

And would I be able to give a Border Collie the right kind of life? I go for long walks but occasionally I perhaps don't feel like it and go for a shorter one - would a collie be ok with that sometimes? And I haven't got a huge garden to play in either - only a small one - although there are parks and footpaths close which Poppy and I love to explore.

I've been advised to get a puppy rather than an adult dog - is that the best thing?

Or shall I just stick with Poppy and take up knitting instead!?

All thoughts and advice greatly appreciated - I just dont want to do the wrong thing.

 

[Clodagh]

I think BCsare lovely dogs. My mum has always had them. It is their brains that need work as much or more than their bodies. A young BC without a decent walk and time doing mind games will drive you mad, and may well develop behavioural problems.
I don't know much about them but there are various breed rescues that may help you, and perhaps could find you a less driven one?

 

[be positive]

I don't think I have ever posted here before but I would really appreciate opinions/advice. Appollogies in advance - I think this will be long!

First of all, I am 57 and retired. Gave up riding 4 years ago due to arthritic knees and spine. I am not an experienced dog owner but I have had Poppy , who is a Lhasa Apso, since she was a puppy. She is now 9yo.
We go for a long walk (2 - 3 miles) every day, and she is as fit as a fiddle and definitely does not look her age. I absolutely adore her and our walks are my main form of excercise.

I would love another dog, in particular a Border Collie. We had them at home when I was a kid. I would love to expand the sort of "hobby" side of dog ownership, and I particularly love the idea of Dog Agillity. I think it would be great to get involved with other like minded people, maybe join a club, maybe even get the chance to compete - you never know!

I have several things holding me back - is it fair to Poppy? She's not terribly fond of other dogs but is ok if they leave her alone. I have quite a few friends who have introduced a new puppy to an older dog and they have all done it successfully.
And would it be fair to my new puppy? If Poppy hated it I would have to find it a new home and I would be upset and also feel guilty for making the mistake and upsetting them both which is the last thing i would want to do.

And would I be able to give a Border Collie the right kind of life? I go for long walks but occasionally I perhaps don't feel like it and go for a shorter one - would a collie be ok with that sometimes? And I haven't got a huge garden to play in either - only a small one - although there are parks and footpaths close which Poppy and I love to explore.

I've been advised to get a puppy rather than an adult dog - is that the best thing?

Or shall I just stick with Poppy and take up knitting instead!?

All thoughts and advice greatly appreciated - I just dont want to do the wrong thing.

I love BC's but they are lively, busy by nature and if you want the pup to live in the same house as Poppy I think having a pup is not fair on either of them, not least because you are already thinking of possibly rehoming the puppy if Poppy doesn't like it, your garden will be trashed very quickly as a couple of walks a day will be unlikely to be enough to prevent behavioural issues, I am currently thinking of getting another collie but am seriously considering an older one despite the fact my current dogs are good with others and I will have several acres for it to run in not limited to a garden or walks.
I would look at the breed rescues and see if they have anything more suitable than a young pup, it will still be trainable and less likely to cause issues with your own dog.

 

[WandaMare]

I agree with talking to the rescue places and taking some advice from them. I took on a 1 year old rescue border collie cross who sadly I lost last year at the age of 13. He was a fabulous dog, so trainable, gentle, loyal, just everything you could want in a dog. I live on a small holding so he had plenty of space to play and run round but if I couldn't take him out he was perfectly manageable in the house. I think it depends how strong their herding instinct is, mine looked like a border but he was actually crossed with lab so this possibly reduced his need to herd.

It would be worth checking this out first because it can become a problem with some borders. A lady I know is currently trying to rehome a beautiful big border collie who has a lovely temperament but her herding drive is too strong. She fixates on whatever she can, for example birds in the sky and then its very difficult to get her attention once she's locked onto them. She would be great on a farm but not good as a pet.

I am a big bc fan and wouldn't hesitate to take on another rescue one in the future. Good luck with your decision

 

[MotherOfChickens]

if you like the BC but are worried (rightfully-I've had one and would never have another) about the exercise part, do you like the look of the smooth collie? they do have collie traits but very watered down-happy to take as much or as little exercise as you throw at them, gentle, kind dogs. apparently some have trouble with them being vocal-mine is to a degree but not bad and generally only when worried or something new comes along. mine goes out with my chickens, cats and ducks and has great recall and leave command! he does have that collie urge to chase but we channel it and he's not bothered by stock round about whatsoever. my very non-doggy OH and his daughter, who's disabled, take him out for walks-he also does canicross with me.

harder to find as an older dog (tbh quite hard to find as pups) but breeders do sometimes have older dogs looking for homes. vulnerable breed and I really dont know why.

 

[coss]

I'm a big collie fan. I find if you can find lots of ting to activate their brain it's amazing how little exercise they need (but they still need to run about!). Mine comes with me to the horses, runs round the field a bit twice a day. Anything extra he is more than happy to do but also content enough with just those runs. He is a semi rescue (long story) so didn't have him as a pup. He does have a few issues that the family are working on and he is improving but i don't think it's the exercise, just anxiety about the change in ownership (and we're not sure if they are habits he developed as a pup that weren't nipped in the bud). Last collie we had as a pup and he was ultra intelligent (more than many other collies) - picked up new words and did everything he could to please including fetching anything.... current one doesn't seem to understand fetch at all, it's either his to run around with or ours.
Dog agility is great fun - i'd actually say you may be better with an older dog (1yr +) to start with as puppies aren't meant to do too much in the way of jumping and weaves etc. You're not allowed to compete them until 18months. They seem to pick it up pretty quick to pick it up and it works their brains really well. My current dog gets mentally tired after as little as 15minutes and is more than happy to go into the house for a sleep after it. Last dog could go longer but that was training that built up over time.
I would be slightly concerned about if your current dog would get on with a new pup, is there a way you could meet any new potential pup/dog with your current dog to see if they'd get on?

 

[AmyMay]

I walk an older BC, and have several friends with them (one is totally deaf and responds to sign language). They're fabulous dogs and I would love one myself.

None of the dogs are destructive and none of the gardens destroyed. What they do all have in common is training. Some are owned by owners that work, some not.

In your shoes, op, I'd think of an older dog - not a puppy.

 

[RockinRudolph]

My border collie is just fab - he's the sweetest, most intelligent dog I've ever come across. We have a terrier as well but in general he's not a fan of other dogs. He likes his own space so as long as he's got a quiet corner to retreat to he's fine. He's never destroyed anything (had him since a pup) and most of the time he's pretty chilled out.
OP why don't you have a chat with a rescue? I agree with the others about considering an older dog if you can.

http://www.bordercollietrustgb.org.uk

 

[Moobli]

Our border collies (all ten of them!) are working sheepdogs and so get plenty of exercise, mental stimulation and get to fulfil their inherent needs on a daily basis. In a pet home, some collies do absolutely fine but others just don't cope - much depends on the individual.

Please read this brilliant article which explains the reasons why border collies are the way they are ...

http://agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html

I would be concerned that you are worried your current dog might not accept a second dog in the family. Could you look at fostering for a BC breed rescue which would give you a flavour of living with a BC and would also let you see how your Lhasa would cope.

If that idea doesn't appeal, then I would suggest speaking to some of the BC breed rescues about matching you with the right older dog - who would be less driven, but with enough energy to do agility etc. Where in the country are you based?

The third alternative could be to speak to show line border collie breeders whose dogs tend to be less driven, having been bred away from work usually for several generations.

 

[pippixox]

Our border collies (all ten of them!) are working sheepdogs and so get plenty of exercise, mental stimulation and get to fulfil their inherent needs on a daily basis. In a pet home, some collies do absolutely fine but others just don't cope - much depends on the individual.

Please read this brilliant article which explains the reasons why border collies are the way they are ...

http://agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html

I would be concerned that you are worried your current dog might not accept a second dog in the family. Could you look at fostering for a BC breed rescue which would give you a flavour of living with a BC and would also let you see how your Lhasa would cope.

If that idea doesn't appeal, then I would suggest speaking to some of the BC breed rescues about matching you with the right older dog - who would be less driven, but with enough energy to do agility etc. Where in the country are you based?

The third alternative could be to speak to show line border collie breeders whose dogs tend to be less driven, having been bred away from work usually for several generations.

I agree with more being concerned about your current dog being happy, regardless of the next dogs breed.

I would certainly look into getting an older rescue, as they will be less in your face to your current dog and you wont need to wait to long to try things like agility.

we got a 2yo rescue collie in February after we lost our GSD to cancer. Personally I had not considered the breed before! My friend had agility collies who I always found to wired and snappy. But Sky is fab- she has a lot of energy and is very fast- having a few training issues with recall as the world is so exciting (But she was kept in just a house and small garden for her first 2 years so is a bit like a puppy at times) but she is very quiet and calm in the house. Zooms around the fields at the yard. She does try to herd my friends spaniel. She happily goes for 3+ hour walk, but on days when we are busy or the weather is bad and the babies been up all night (I have a 10 month old son) she will happily settle for a pootel around the farm when we do the horses and then fetch in the garden.

 

[Moobli]

There is also a FB page set up specifically for people wanting a collie without the required instincts to work livestock. That is not to say they will be safe around livestock or not as energetic or demanding as a working collie, but worth a look as there are some lovely dogs posted on there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/422974531225036/

 

[AmyMay]

Earl sounds fab.

 

[Parly]

Hi Sue - my advice is the opposite of what someone else gave you regarding it being preferable to buy a puppy BC. Cannot stress enough how much I would never advise that to be honest. Not only do you have an incredibly lively, busy, annoying and often challenging ball of fluff but before long you may well end up with a fully grown sheepdog in your living room and if that happens - there's nothing you can do about it.

There are never any guarantees about whether or not a BC puppy is going to be geared more towards a working dog or family pet so you run the risk by taking on a puppy. My eldest came to us as an eight-week and made the journey home sat in a plastic tub on my daughter's knee. Not a scrap of paper to her name or anything to speak of but that didn't matter because the aim was more for her to be a family pet / companion dog and come out on long walks / hacks and maybe do a bit of agility, flyball or trick-training...

She had other ideas though and was later registered on merit with the International Sheepdog Society having proved her worth during asssessments. Caught the eye of several farmers and triallists too but I'll tell you what - she threw me the biggest challenge and was the most difficult, incredibly stubborn and wilful thing I ever had in my life. Drove me nuts until she was 18-months and I have the luxury of being in my 30's, living in a rural area and being at home all day with children in their late teens. Even then she drove me nuts beyond words. The best teacher / trainer and best friend I've ever had but because she was such a strong-minded sod it was not easy.

Then we rehomed a young BC from a huge farm that is home to 900+ sheep and ten dogs that work every day. The youngster is the son / granddson of current world champions and was bought for a small fortune by the farmer (also a leading sheepdog triallist) as a puppy with the aim being to train him up for work and competing but he couldn't give toss for sheep!! Just not a bit interested so with him being unable to pay his way he was passed to us as a non-worker.

Not sure whereabouts you are but I cannot recommend Border Collie Rescue enough. They are absolutely incredible and assess every single one to see if they have any instinct for work. The smallest level of instinct in a dog puts him into the "worker" pile so he can be rehomed a farm / small-holding or somewhere he can put to work, kept busy and allowed to do what he was born to do.

The others that show absolutely no interest whatsoever like my youngest go into the "family pet / companion" category and re-homed to a suitable, quiet and calmer environment.

If you ended up re-homing from BCR the one thing you are guaranteed is that the dog will have been extensively assessed, re-trained and entirely suitable for you to take on. Not only that staff at BCR are on tap and there to help and provide you with support and training for the remainder of the dog's life so if you do have any problems or concerns they're at the other end of a phone.

Posting link to website with info but I have been helping BCR on a part-time voluntary basis for a while now and honestly they are fantastic

http://www.bordercollierescue.org/adoption/index.html

 

[SusieT]

Have to say I would say go ahead and try it - most older dogs will tolerate pups better than young bouncy adults - I'd try it and see.

 

[Back with a bang]

We have 3 border collies and they are lovely dogs but they are our farm dogs and require a lot of work. It sounds to me like you know what you are letting yourself into so go for it. Your other dog will probably be grateful of the company. Perhaps get an adult BC rather than a pup though

 

[sue_ellen]

Thanks so much for all this lovely advice - I haven't been on here for a couple of days.
I was advised to get a pup but the idea of rescuing a doggy who needs a new home really appeals and is something that I will look into - thank you so much everyone

 

[AmyMay]

Have you seen Thistle's post? Although I know it's the wrong breed.....

 

[dollyanna]

I would also strongly suggest an adult rather than a puppy, from a good rescue who have assessed and know the dog well - Border Collie Rescue are awesome, and they won't risk a worky dog landing in a pet home so they are a good place to start even if it is a distance from you. Advantage of an adult is that you have a better idea of what you are going to end up with, and can see if they will get on with your current dog more easily. Some dogs won't tolerate a puppy but will accept an adult who knows how to be polite and appropriate, so it may well be easier to integrate in with your current dog. As others have said, adults are ready to learn and train for sports like agility, whereas a puppy has quite a wait before you can do much serious training, although there is a lot of puppy work that can be done it isn't the same as attending agility classes. In your situation I would be going for a youngish adult, not a pup, but don't be too put off if they are a bit older either - if it's the right dog then it's the right dog, regardless of age. Good luck!

 

[TheOldTrout]

Coming a bit late to the party, but my first thought as I read the very first post was 'Why a puppy? Why not rehome an older dog?' But lots of other people have beaten me to it...

 

[Parly]

Awww good I'm glad you're at least considering fostering / re-homing and again I can't recommend BRC enough. They have foster homes all over the country because there is such a long waiting list for them to go into the York centre but they won't use kennels and instead place dogs with fosters pending a space becoming available for them to go into the centre for assessment and training.

I help with home visits and assessments / follow ups with family pets and companions already placed in our area and honestly there isn't a single person or dog that isn't perfectly placed or in the least bit unhappy with each other.

Posting link to video of “Tess” who was running wild for months before being caught, brought in and re-homed to a lovely new owner just down from us. What I love about Tess is that having come from a farm originally she did show some level of basic training and understood commands during the working / herding assessment but Nicki quickly spotted it was being done more out of obligation than a genuine desire to work and so into the “companion” pile she went.

Nicki Oliver is especially brilliant and understands the breed better than anyone else I've met. The woman is remarkable

[video=youtube_share;i74fYflfBIc]https://youtu.be/i74fYflfBIc[/video]

 

[GirlFriday]

Honestly I think the combination of your existing dog and BC is likely to be inconvenient without some changes to your routine which you may/may not be able to make. People walk at around 4miles/hr. So, if your walks are 2-3 miles, and exercise around your house is limited, you're not going to be doing anything like what a BC needs (it wouldn't be enough for my small middle aged terrier-x on a regular basis). Are your walking routes flat & wide enough to pull/push one of those little carts that you can tow with a bike or push like a buggy for your older dog? Would older dog be happy being left at home while you did an extra walk with the BC? Are you able to do an extra walk with the BC or perhaps switch to a bike (which you can use to tow the Lhaso when it gets tired) so you can cover more miles?

 

[SusieT]

Personally I would get a puppy if I had a grumpy terrier in the house - they give puppies much more leeway than adult dogs and I'd be concenred if old dog lashed out new dog if adult would seriously injure it . That's my view anyway.
And walk wise I find it's not the lenght of the walk but the mental stimulation and most dogs will fit into their owners schedule if used to it form a young age and its got reasonable stimulation.

 

[Moobli]

Not sure whereabouts you are but I cannot recommend Border Collie Rescue enough. They are absolutely incredible and assess every single one to see if they have any instinct for work. The smallest level of instinct in a dog puts him into the "worker" pile so he can be rehomed a farm / small-holding or somewhere he can put to work, kept busy and allowed to do what he was born to do.

The others that show absolutely no interest whatsoever like my youngest go into the "family pet / companion" category and re-homed to a suitable, quiet and calmer environment.

If you ended up re-homing from BCR the one thing you are guaranteed is that the dog will have been extensively assessed, re-trained and entirely suitable for you to take on. Not only that staff at BCR are on tap and there to help and provide you with support and training for the remainder of the dog's life so if you do have any problems or concerns they're at the other end of a phone.

Posting link to website with info but I have been helping BCR on a part-time voluntary basis for a while now and honestly they are fantastic

http://www.bordercollierescue.org/adoption/index.html

How did you ever get to volunteer? Everything I had seen/heard about this rescue was really positive and so offered to be a foster home in Scotland (as I see they still have no permanent kennelling up here) with the added offer of assessing any dogs for working potential but never heard a word back - despite emailing a number of times.

 

[Snuffles]

Our local Dogs Trust have several border collies that have been with them for a few months, they seem to be difficult to rehome, possibly because they have not been properly socialised/trained in their previous homes. Perhaps you should look out for a cross , like the BC/Corgi which I have, he is beautifully trained but quite lazy !

 

[Moobli]

Our local Dogs Trust have several border collies that have been with them for a few months, they seem to be difficult to rehome, possibly because they have not been properly socialised/trained in their previous homes. Perhaps you should look out for a cross , like the BC/Corgi which I have, he is beautifully trained but quite lazy !

Border collies are often difficult to rehome because they are frequently bought from working farms as pets (my guess the reason for that would be because they are numerous and relatively cheap compared to many pedigree dogs). Collies are generally a very sensitive and reactive breed that need a lot of exercise and plenty for their busy minds to do. Some collies do go on to make good pets but so many more just can't cope with life in an urban or family setting with all the hustle and bustle, noise and activity.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I think BCsare lovely dogs. My mum has always had them. It is their brains that need work as much or more than their bodies. A young BC without a decent walk and time doing mind games will drive you mad, and may well develop behavioural problems.
I don't know much about them but there are various breed rescues that may help you, and perhaps could find you a less driven one?

Yep this

People thought we were mad getting our bc ten years ago. We rehomed him as a one year old.

What a lot of people make the mistake of getting them too fit for the life they are living. We don't work ours, he is a pet. His walks are between 30/40 minutes a day and then we do lots of tricks and games at home.
If he was working his walks would be bigger and he would be fitter.

I will be getting another once he goes, though at 11 he still thinks he is 2 😂

Research the breed and just make sure in the first year of life you are carefull with walks, five minutes for every month they are and lots of brain games.

 

[Dano1223]

Am i right in saying some rescues let you do a trial period to see if/how they bed into their potential new life? that could be an option to see how your current dog deals with another member of the family.

Also, do agree that older dogs sometimes give pups more leeway.

I can't give a lot of first hand experience on BC's the only thing i was told by a friend who has them was "you don't tire out a BC, you just make it fitter" I found it funny...and terrifying in equal measures lol.

 

[Fellewell]

I remember reading a sociology paper which talked about very bright people who when denied a legitimate means of advancement, ie; proper job, would automatically seek an illegitimate means of advancement, ie;crime. This is so true of the border collie, they can be inventive in ways other dogs can only dream about. Rich Hall wrote a song about these dogs and the line "I basically don't know when to quit" sums them up perfectly IMO.

 

[Parly]

I remember reading a sociology paper which talked about very bright people who when denied a legitimate means of advancement, ie; proper job, would automatically seek an illegitimate means of advancement, ie;crime. This is so true of the border collie, they can be inventive in ways other dogs can only dream about. Rich Hall wrote a song about these dogs and the line "I basically don't know when to quit" sums them up perfectly IMO.

"I'm ready to work I'm ready to work LESSGO!! What's the hold up?? For fu@k sake let's move it!! I am ready to work I'm ready to go!!"

True story

 

[Parly]

How did you ever get to volunteer? Everything I had seen/heard about this rescue was really positive and so offered to be a foster home in Scotland (as I see they still have no permanent kennelling up here) with the added offer of assessing any dogs for working potential but never heard a word back - despite emailing a number of times.

With great difficulty!! :lol: :lol:

How bizarre you had the same experience cos I had to badger and bother and nudge them as a gentle reminder quite a lot before they got sick of me and responded. Only thing I can suggest is emailing them again or dropping a message on Facebook cos their page is maintained and updated quite regularly.

My daughter has been offering to take video footage and photographs to update their website and add new case studies and whatnot. Has the full setup with two professional Nikon cameras, tripod, different lenses and brilliant video editing software. YouTube videos are out of date and could do with being edited and brightened up to give them a fresher, cleaner feel and make videos more appealing to younger audiences on social media. Offered her services free of charge and she's still having to chase them up

They are so flat out with dogs that need all their time and attention the admin stuff just takes a back seat but it is frustrating when you're offering them help and it goes unacknowledged although it is appreciated.

To be fair I haven't done as much in recent months purely because I took on a young BC that needed a lot of work and re-training but now he's rolling on the plan is to pick up where I left off. Might need more chasing and badgering and nudging though I'm not sure.

They get approx 200 calls a week or something daft like that which in itself generates a huge amount of admin they need to do from the York office but definitely chase them up and let them know you're there and can offer help with dogs up in Scotland.

There will be a fair few your way I'm sure.