ideas / experiences / management of horse with adrenaline bursts = a panic attack?

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shark1

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I am at my wits end with this one!

Does anything know anything, or can point me in the direction of something or someone who knows about this type of thing?

Basically, i have a fab horse who can just flip and switch and is suddenly just mad. She'll be lovely, then something will spook her or make her look, flight instinct kicks in and bam, brain goes, control goes, she panics and runs. Somedays only for a few steps, other days for a long way, no stopping her literally.

I have tried calmers (equine america one), oxyshot, rock rose bach remedy thing etc. no difference.

Level of work doesnt affect her, once the adrenaline arrives she is off on one, regardless of how exhausted she is.

She also has severe separation anxiety and is very nervy of the simplest things, but brave about the scariest things. She has the sweetest nature when shes feeling 'safe'.

Does anyone recognise or have seen this type of thing before? I am convinced its a biological panic problem - can horses produce too much adrenaline?? Can they have panic attacks?

Any help or advice would be GREAT!
 
Not exactly the same but similar thing with my big TB, he can be half way round a jumping ring and literally have a nervous breakdown, he doesn't run off he just stands on the spot and trembles! It has got better over time but I tend to avoid any overly exciting things which are likely to set him off. When we race if the starter is faffing about we can sometimes get left at the start because he is having 'an episode'!
 
Have you tried feeding magnesium. It has shown to be effective as a calmer, i would use it on any horse who is nervy or jumpy.

If she was my horse, i would want to do a bit of lag work with her. Get her use to high energy situations so she doesnt think that its gonna kill her and she can start to trust you. Maybe find someone in your area who does NH or inteligent horsemanship, or an instructor who has dealt with this sort of problem before.

I tend to advise people to teach the horse the one rein stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmpDSbXPtzU

It acts by bending the horses neck with one rein, and disengaging the hind end. The horse is less able to run away with you with his head round to your foot.
It also acts to reasure the horse that you are in control and that they dont need to bugger off with you.

You see, if a horse has his head in front of his body, he has all his power to pull against you. But when he is bending round, he cant do that.

I once did this with a bolter. Little pony was scared of things moving around her head and neck above her. So i did a lot of flagging, getting her use to things moving quickly around her head and neck, so it would worry her too much. Then when i rode her, i always kept her on a circle so that if she wanted to go, all i had to do was bend her neck and she couldnt run away. Eventually she actually started to bend any time she felt worried by anything.
Its about taking control of the situation. If your horse says run, you say bend.

If you dont think this will work, check it out on google. I can assure you, all horses should be taught the ORS. Its basically an emergency break.
Also, if she runs and you pull back on her, this can worry her more. You are pulling her head back when all she wants is her head. The ORS allows you to teach her to lower her head and soften with one rein, instead of pulling both reins which will make her resist and pull back.
 
Kind of but not quite the same extent. My mare is total sweetie to handle and very kind but is scared of everything, it is sometimes an evasion sometimes genuine terror. She will spook massively, tremble, lash out with back legs generally get very upset - could be at bird, shadow, flower pots, hens etc. She has never bombed off though, worst would be a few metres.

I've tried several calmers and they did help a bit but made her sluggish to ride.

She has only got better by doing more 'scary' things, although will still get pertified by small things when schooling, only time she's ok is jumping or pole work as she enjoyes that!

Not much advice I can give but do sympathise. I would love to get her moving forwards confidently but it a long hard road we are on - good luck
 
My TB had panic attacks when racing, wouldn't come out of the stalls, and he has been known to plant and will occasionally spin off into orbit and plunge,run etc. I have used calmers, which did help to an extent, but didn't think they were helping with the cause(magnesium ones didn't touch him).

I am now using Equifeast Wining Edge Silver which is a general supplement but helps support brain function. They do one called Cool, Calm, and Oollected as well that doesn't have the rest of the 'general' stuff if you just want a specific thing. We are about 15 weeks in and I do think we are making progress, he appears to be able to concentrate for longer time periods and is less prone to panic. As a consequence his confidence (and mine, in him) is rising and I am hoping it is a positive feedback situation. The Equifeast website is a bit pants but all the info is on there if you think it sounds a similar situation. I don't think there is a quick fix though, or at least if there is, I haven't found it yet!
 
my lovely mare was very similar when she was younger, she would start a DR test tense and then out of the blue explode, same SJing and XC except she didnt stop she would get faster and more out of control, i tried every type of calmer possible and they didnt touch her, one even acted as a sedative and she crashed through a SJ :(

i spoke to the lady from nupafeed, she is so knowledgable and will listen to your own experience and suggest a plan for your own horse. the nupafeed works on contoling the levels in the body, my mare improved immediately and the result were incredable, she went from a DR of 58 to 39 in one week, once she could control the adrenalin it was honestly like a miracle.
as the magnesium controled her adrenalin levels she was able to understand the situation better, therefore realising that it actually wasnt that bad. which meant her own body then took over control of the magnesium. after 6 months i reduced the calmer and she has been a different horse ever since. 2 years ago she even won a trophy for the highest DR test of the day, something which we use to joke about as we would of been luck just to get 2 legs to stay on the floor in the arena, let alone 4 in perfect outline to win on 78%
sorry to go on about this but i cant stress enough how diffucult my mare was and the amazing results i got. PM me if you need any more info but i would strongly suggest you give nupafeed UK a ring

Good luck :)
 
i have a mare who does the same thing, resulting so far in knocking all her front teeth out as a yearling when panicking, getting away from me, and tripping over at a flat out gallop, and in nearly breaking her neck when doing the same while being rugged up...
i now have her on Barefoot Basics Calmag and she is pretty much a different horse. that, coupled with literally years of calm, kind, patient, consistency is getting her to turn the corner, so far...
mine panics and its as if her brain has been taken out, she just runs. she had serious separation anxiety too, was the most herd-orientated horse i've ever known, but now happily comes into stable alone. not sure i'd dare leave her in the far field alone though, not quite that stoical yet...
Calmag is really good, and not expensive.
 
god thanks people, this is excellent! its nice to know i am not the only one struggling with a skizophrenic (excuse my spelling)

thnak you for all your advice, i will go investigate all the products mentioned!

i dont mind the erratic behaviour so much at home, although it can be damn annoying & tiring! but i worry at county shows and big occasions like that she might end up damaging someone else. or me!

jennyharvey thanks for that, i can predict when its going to happen, and the worst thing to do is pull her up like you say, but she goes so so tense when she scoots off its very hard to get any bend but i will keep trying! i think she trusts me as i can do anything with her on the ground now, even clipping !
and she hasnt ditched me yet (we had alot of trouble breaking her, she perfected the rear, spin, run over on so many people she kept being sent home!)

i have got some magesium to shovel into her and will keep trying your suggestions, one must work!

thanks all i really appreciate it.
 
My mare was exactly the same. Her flight instinct was so strong it was dangerous. When this is the case calmer won't ever override their instincts. We have patiently taught her to stand next to things she's scared of with a calm horse by her side to reassure her. She has slowly learnt not to panic so quickly when faced with scary things. This has taken nearly 2 years but she is turning into a little star now! I tried so many calmers but the answer is in very slowly gaining their trust. Don't give up hope!
 
My horse does the excact same thing will be working lovely then like a click of a switch goes mental like today had been jumping was going great was cooling off and walking round on a long rein was totally chilled all of a sudden spotted something I couldnt see and went totally nuts was chomping on the bit throwing his head around and wanting to just run away there was nothing I could do to calm him down was like I didn't exsist he was so wired. It comes across to me like he has a panic attack he looks like a drug addict and doesn't know what to do with himself! Haven't found a resolution yet I'm afraid but speakibg to my vet in the morning in case there is a medical reason behind it. Sorry I can't be of more help can just sympathise with you as i know how frustrating it is wishing you knew what's going on in there heads! Xx
 
Yes, I have a mare that has crazy adrenaline bursts - wouldn't call them panic attacks as such, she is not a spooky horse and is not 'frightened' per se, but she can be an absolute lunatic in open spaces, and when the flight instinct kicks in, there is nothing that can be done to make her act logically or reasonably.

When she flips her heartbeat is racing, she will stick her head up straight through any martingale/draw rein/market harborough... she fly leaps, rears if held up, does not stand and chomps the bit, throws her head, launches into oncoming traffic... no sense of fear or danger in the slightest- if anything she will automatically run into danger rather than run away from it.

In the past I have tried a million calmers with absolutely no effect - she is a chilled sort of horse that majority of the time - until faced with a big open space.

At the moment I am temporarily keeping her on epsom downs (complete with racecourse, schooling fences etc.) and have found a solution to this behaviour - I am working her hard (much harder than what most people think is hard work!!) we trot for about 1.5 miles, then do a steady hack canter for about 1/3 mile, then trot another mile, then take her for a steady hack canter for just over 1 mile. After this we can walk home calmly. Sticking to this routine for a week settles her... I never touch her mouth, don't ask anything of her other than to stay in trot or canter as requested. She is full TB, bred to run and also specifically bred to be a stayer - in this routine she is happy and relaxed because she knows what is expected of her and is using enough energy daily to not have it building up. After going on this ride I can then school her and get a reasonable, logical response.

TBH no amount of work on the ground, or on her manners, or on her schooling, or changing her feed will help her... she is what she is!
 
I used Ttouch with my old lad and it changed everything. He became far more confident and although he would still spook they weren't violent spools and he would get over it rather than holding on to the energy and keeping nervous. It's a really good technique and one I've found incredible!
 
which EA calmer did you try? the so kalm didnt work 100% on CS but the Super Kalm, although double the price for 1/3 of the quantity has made a BIG diff and seems to stop the initial adrenalin surge, so that im able to ride forward through it and calm him.
 
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