Ideas for managing a greedy pony

GrassChop

GrassChop

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I know I've posted about this before and trust me, I'm at my wits end too.

I have been used to managing a pony that is happy to pick at a haynet, snooze, graze etc and will never run out of food.

My NF 4yo gelding however... I genuinely don't know what to do! Aside from recently consuming 20% of his shelter, he also gets through his haynets within 30 minutes. I'm now needing to fence off the hawthorn bushes too because he's been eating the leafless stalks that are covered in huge thorns and I had to dislodge one from underneath his top lip. I have never ever known anything to be so greedy, it's driving me mad. It's like anything for him is food whether it should be edible or not.

His haynets are 2.5cm mesh holes, I can stuff one full with 1 quarter hay and 3 quarters straw and it's gone within 30 minutes. I work full time so going up multiple times a day to put out more isn't an option. Leaving a big bucket of oat straw chaff would only last 10/15 minutes too, he'd eat it until it's gone, same with the haynets. He doesn't take a break in between.

I can't tie haynets anywhere other than on the shelter because all the fences have to be fenced off with electric because he eats those too so dotting around isn't possible. There is barely any grass out there now and I don't want him to go without but what choice do I have? Is there anything I can do? His weight is great now, the problem I'm having is the fact he does not stop eating and he is then left without until I'm back up.
 
This is my small cob. The dentist stood and watched her eat and commented that she just never stops, it's more of a conveyor belt than bite and chew.

I use trickle nets, does not slow her down much.

I have found the best thing to make it last is to give her some of her ration soaked and some dry, if it's all one or the other once she starts she doesn't stop til it's gone. If she has one dry and one wet she wolfs down the dry then finds the soaked unpalatable so stops eating until she's hungry enough.
 
Is he shod? If not, you could put hay bags/pillows dotted about on the ground for him.
Can you hang the net in the shelter so it's away from the walls and harder to pin down?
If you can hang a net up high enough he cannot reach it, a timer padlock (there are some that have a cable type loop that would allow the net to slip free) could be used to hold the net up out of reach until a couple of hours had passed, although perhaps that's getting a bit Heath Robinson! (Cross posted with Jambarissa!)
 
Is he rugged/clipped? I am just thinking that if you can't stop him eating, then possibly keeping him using up calories staying warm might help keep the weight off.

Treat balls with grass pellets in or those dried hay bricks in a tiny net (if you buy the unflavoured ones, they are cheaper) may make him work for the food a bit and keep him occupied so he isn't straight onto his hay nets.
 
Have you tried hay balls? They're quite difficult to empty unless they're very determined and all mine have got bored before getting all the hay out, so sounds like it might keep your buy occupied for a while. I've also found exclusively using slow-feeder nets can lead to more 'ravenous' behaviour so have used a normal holed net with a small portion in to satisfy hunger, then a larger net in a trickle net that they move onto afterwards and seem happier to pick at. Feeding fibre mashes/hay replacers made sloppy can increase eating time for a fairly low calorie value as most of what they are consuming is water. I've also had success with offering a variety of different forage which encourages them to forage more naturally than just stand in one place and eat until it's gone - so a bucket of soaked hay, a net of dry, a trickle net, some straw etc. There's also an argument that if they truly never run out of food they learn to self regulate better, though easier said than done alongside weight management - do you have the option of leaving a couple of big trickle nets stuffed with just straw for him to pick at once the hay is gone? I'd also feed lower quality (last years if you can get it) hay and soak it well, so it's not particularly appetising but something to chew on if he really wants it. Have you ruled out all medical causes like insulin resistance?
 
Jambarissa said:
This is my small cob. The dentist stood and watched her eat and commented that she just never stops, it's more of a conveyor belt than bite and chew.

I use trickle nets, does not slow her down much.

I have found the best thing to make it last is to give her some of her ration soaked and some dry, if it's all one or the other once she starts she doesn't stop til it's gone. If she has one dry and one wet she wolfs down the dry then finds the soaked unpalatable so stops eating until she's hungry enough.
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Thanks for replying!

I don't think whether it's palatable or not even factors in to his need to eat, unfortunately. He would eat mud soaked old rotting hay from a muck heap if he had the chance. I've given him old soaked straw too and it still gets polished off. Nothing appears to be unpalatable enough to deter him from scoffing the lot.
 
Jambarissa said:
The other thing I did in the past was a timed haynet release. Hung the net in the rafters and used a timed chicken coop door opener to pull the pin that held it up. You could probably adapt the idea to fit your setting eg a drainpipe full of straw chaff with the pin at the bottom.
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That's interesting. I might chat with my partner about making some sort of contraption!
 
SpeedyPony said:
Is he shod? If not, you could put hay bags/pillows dotted about on the ground for him.
Can you hang the net in the shelter so it's away from the walls and harder to pin down?
If you can hang a net up high enough he cannot reach it, a timer padlock (there are some that have a cable type loop that would allow the net to slip free) could be used to hold the net up out of reach until a couple of hours had passed, although perhaps that's getting a bit Heath Robinson! (Cross posted with Jambarissa!)
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Not shod, no so that's an option. Although he'd likely kick it around and paw at it until it breaks open.

Hanging a net from the shelter rafters is a good one, I'll do that next!
 
Griffin said:
Is he rugged/clipped? I am just thinking that if you can't stop him eating, then possibly keeping him using up calories staying warm might help keep the weight off.

Treat balls with grass pellets in or those dried hay bricks in a tiny net (if you buy the unflavoured ones, they are cheaper) may make him work for the food a bit and keep him occupied so he isn't straight onto his hay nets.
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Not rugged or clipped, full mammoth. His weight is great finally but I think that's mostly because he's going without any bulk for a long period as it's eaten within the hour of getting put out and possibly as I have swapped to straw with a mixture of hay instead of full hay. It's just the worry that he's got a pretty empty stomach for so long minus the short nibbles of grass he can get.

I could look at trying a treat ball but there is the possibility it'll end up in someone else's field if it gets pushed under the fence. I could look at a hay ball actually as well.
 
KikiDee said:
Have you tried hay balls? They're quite difficult to empty unless they're very determined and all mine have got bored before getting all the hay out, so sounds like it might keep your buy occupied for a while. I've also found exclusively using slow-feeder nets can lead to more 'ravenous' behaviour so have used a normal holed net with a small portion in to satisfy hunger, then a larger net in a trickle net that they move onto afterwards and seem happier to pick at. Feeding fibre mashes/hay replacers made sloppy can increase eating time for a fairly low calorie value as most of what they are consuming is water. I've also had success with offering a variety of different forage which encourages them to forage more naturally than just stand in one place and eat until it's gone - so a bucket of soaked hay, a net of dry, a trickle net, some straw etc. There's also an argument that if they truly never run out of food they learn to self regulate better, though easier said than done alongside weight management - do you have the option of leaving a couple of big trickle nets stuffed with just straw for him to pick at once the hay is gone? I'd also feed lower quality (last years if you can get it) hay and soak it well, so it's not particularly appetising but something to chew on if he really wants it. Have you ruled out all medical causes like insulin resistance?
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I haven't tried a hay ball, definitely something to look at. I just worry that it'll end up being pushed under the fence and he won't be able to get to it.

That's a very good theory and I like the idea of a variety of things to fill him up initially and then have something to pick at. I am yet to get him to self regulate. I have tried two nets, one with a hay and straw mixture in a 4cm holed net and a second net of straw with 2.5cm holes but they still both get polished off. His feed is a balancer and some plain pony nuts soaked into a mash with a big scoop of oat straw chaff so in theory, he shouldn't be ravenous after that but maybe I'll try giving more in the way of haynets.

Not sure soaked hay will have any effect on slowing him down. I had put some haylage out for my mare one evening just on the floor while I did some jobs, it ended up getting soaked in the rain and muddy as she didn't eat it. I scraped it into his field after a day or so so I could chuck it in the wheelbarrow while I was poo picking and he was eating it like he was starved to death, pretty gross. Nothing seems to faze him. I think I could cover it in horse poo and he'd eat it still.

I haven't looked into insulin resistance but I will ask the vet when they're out to do his teeth.
 
GrassChop said:
I haven't tried a hay ball, definitely something to look at. I just worry that it'll end up being pushed under the fence and he won't be able to get to it.

That's a very good theory and I like the idea of a variety of things to fill him up initially and then have something to pick at. I am yet to get him to self regulate. I have tried two nets, one with a hay and straw mixture in a 4cm holed net and a second net of straw with 2.5cm holes but they still both get polished off. His feed is a balancer and some plain pony nuts soaked into a mash with a big scoop of oat straw chaff so in theory, he shouldn't be ravenous after that but maybe I'll try giving more in the way of haynets.

Not sure soaked hay will have any effect on slowing him down. I had put some haylage out for my mare one evening just on the floor while I did some jobs, it ended up getting soaked in the rain and muddy as she didn't eat it. I scraped it into his field after a day or so so I could chuck it in the wheelbarrow while I was poo picking and he was eating it like he was starved to death, pretty gross. Nothing seems to faze him. I think I could cover it in horse poo and he'd eat it still.

I haven't looked into insulin resistance but I will ask the vet when they're out to do his teeth.
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It's hard isn't it! I've had a very good doer, only way I kept him at a good weight was fully clipped and lightly rugged all winter, out on 'ok' grass during the day then he came in to a net of soaked hay and had a top-up small net of soaked hay at 9pm night-checks. Undoubtedly he went without for a good few hours but what can you do 🤷‍♀️ I didn't have the issues you are having with chewing wood/destruction to contend with though.

Hopefully a false alarm on the insulin resistance but I do know it can sometimes trigger excessive eating/insatiable hunger in some horses.

On the bright side, I have the opposite problem with mine turning their noses up at perfectly good hay that has been lightly rained on when put out in the field and it makes me cry to waste it, but 30yo pony needs to eat so I can't starve them into submission - I could do with a handy hoover 😅
 
I had one that was similar, so I bedded her on good quality barley straw and told myself that at least she's got that to eat when she inevitably finishes her net. If you bed down the shelter, could that be an option perhaps?
I used to try double trickle netting for another of mine in the past, she would just chew holes through both :rolleyes:
 
Nasicus said:
I had one that was similar, so I bedded her on good quality barley straw and told myself that at least she's got that to eat when she inevitably finishes her net. If you bed down the shelter, could that be an option perhaps?
I used to try double trickle netting for another of mine in the past, she would just chew holes through both :rolleyes:
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I could bed it down but there are high chances he'd consume at least 90% of it and I worry about impaction colic with eating large volumes of straw in quick succession.

Yes, mine has learnt that if he yanks it hard enough, the tie rope will break through the mesh it's looped through and he can empty it out on the floor instead! I have to double loop the rope through now in case one mesh square breaks!
 
Forage plus have some interesting info on their site about protein or lack of which can cause excessive hunger. I know in humans protein is recommended for but not sure if this applies to horses too - especially if he is young and needs more protein for growth ??? X
 
The only thing that slows mine down is soaking hay. It's soaked for a good few hours in a haycube and it'll just about be gone in the morning. If it's dry or soaked for less time, it's gone quickly and he needs an extra bucket of water to drink. I assume that really soaked hay takes longer to chew, and that's what slows him down 🤷‍♀️

I tried teeny holded double layered haynets and hanging one from the rafters, but he's very efficient and determined! The ground haynets are good to keep him entertained (he'll chuck them about the place!), but I don't think it particularly slows him down

Good doers can be so tricky! Mine is still in a muzzle this winter - could that be an option of soaking hay doesn't work?
 
Bizarre but… check for ulcers? My husband gets ulcers - he eats to dull the pain. Sour breath and a grumpy demeanour are also signs but the constant eating comes first. Same with my mare when she got them - she hurt herself trying to get to yet more grass trying to dull the pain. Then we found the ulcers.
 
Dam1 said:
Forage plus have some interesting info on their site about protein or lack of which can cause excessive hunger. I know in humans protein is recommended for but not sure if this applies to horses too - especially if he is young and needs more protein for growth ??? X
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That's a very good point. Thank you! Perhaps I'll look into that too. X

ETA: I'm wondering if Speedibeet helps keep them fuller for longer? I know it's not high protein but people do seem to use it as a "winter warmer".
 
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Wonder if he’s deficient in anything? I could well be talking complete rubbish but his behaviour is real searching isn’t it? I’d trial some woody herbs in his feed and buy a good forage balancer. He may well become EMS and there’s lots of info on keeping them fed. It’s a battle. Good luck.
 
pistolpete said:
Wonder if he’s deficient in anything? I could well be talking complete rubbish but his behaviour is real searching isn’t it? I’d trial some woody herbs in his feed and buy a good forage balancer. He may well become EMS and there’s lots of info on keeping them fed. It’s a battle. Good luck.
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Woody herbs, that's interesting, I will give that a google.

He's on Spillers Daily Balancer already and has a salt lick plus added salt in his food so in theory, he should be getting everything he needs? I genuinely don't know. It's just really tricky because he's dropped weight nicely but he's obviously hungry as he's looked like he's sucking in a couple of times but if I give him enough food to last him, he will get fat, if I don't give him enough food to last, he will starve to death, seemingly.
 
He's also a native, and the survival instinct is very strong! My old piebald cob is exactly the same as yours. In summer he is out 24/7, and was muzzled in his younger days. In winter I used to work out roughly what he needed to keep him alive, and double net the haylage nets. His ration was split between three nets dotted around his stable. Would it help to mix his net ration with straw and really stuff the net? If he is growing and keeping himself warm, then he's unlikely to put on much weight.
 
Highmileagereindeer said:
He's also a native, and the survival instinct is very strong! My old piebald cob is exactly the same as yours. In summer he is out 24/7, and was muzzled in his younger days. In winter I used to work out roughly what he needed to keep him alive, and double net the haylage nets. His ration was split between three nets dotted around his stable. Would it help to mix his net ration with straw and really stuff the net? If he is growing and keeping himself warm, then he's unlikely to put on much weight.
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Unfortunately, that's what I'm already doing. He gets one net of hay and straw mixed and one net of just straw, both stuffed to the brim. If I give him more hay, he will put on weight. If I give him more of either, it still won't last more than a couple of hours maximum. So I am stuck with him going without for longer periods with just whatever grass is left to pick on. I don't know how to maintain the weight because it's such a fine line with him and it's the worry that he eats it all so quickly that he's got nothing really to munch on if he is hungry.
 
Bless him. I do feel your pain my highland was the same. He lives out 24/7 now and when the hay is gone it’s gone. He’s so much happier but is overweight. Has access to several acres. He’s retired so I accept it. Not ideal though.
 
I would fer him checked out, it all sounds rather extreme. I've only had one horse that was extremely greedy (and also food aggressive in certain situations), yet he never tried to eat his stable. There are many sufferers of EMS & lami on restricted diets that cope just fine and some just simply not fed enough (yes, I actually know folks who are ridiculously tight with hay) but don't resort to eating their surroundings. I'd be worried there's something going on.
 
Could he be bored rather than hungry? Have you tried giving him some toys to play with/chew on?

Is he on his own? If he's not interacting with other horses then that could lead to boredom too.

Also, does he have any grazing? If he isnt grazing grass then he's probably just trying to eat hay the same way he would eat grass.
 
What is your current management regime?

I'm in agreement with the poster above, and would strongly suspect that this is not necessarily a "hunger" issue; I would be looking more at a "boredom" issue tbh. Is your horse out with others? And if so, what sort of herd is he with? Does he have the chance to interact with other horses? Ideally he needs to be out in a fast-moving herd where there is plenty going on - or one with a few dominant mares who'd hurry him along a bit - rather than a more static (perhaps veteran) herd. Right now you've obviously got him on a regime where all he has to do is eat!!

Can I challenge your mindset? You are currently perceiving that he "has" to have something to nibble at, ALL of the time. But horses do not need this!! My mare is a good doer and is greedy, and I'm needing to reduce her weight considerably, and I know that if I put down even oat straw (which she's on at the moment, mixed in with her haylage), she'd gob down the lot and wouldn't stop till she'd eaten it all. But once she's eaten what I've given her, she then goes for some four hours before she has anything else! My vet says that a four-hour interval between "feeding" is OK.

If you are unable to change the regime your horse is currently on, then you could consider some horsey toys to keep him occupied?
 
southerncomfort said:
Could he be bored rather than hungry? Have you tried giving him some toys to play with/chew on?

Is he on his own? If he's not interacting with other horses then that could lead to boredom too.

Also, does he have any grazing? If he isnt grazing grass then he's probably just trying to eat hay the same way he would eat grass.
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He's got a jolly ball and an old broken bucket which he likes flinging around.

Unfortunately, he is on his own in a 1 acre paddock due to his diet requirements not being the same as any others there. He has company from all sides and spends plenty of time playing bitey face with the boys or grooming with my mare. I can't put him in with her because he will eat all of her hay as well as his own and she's a poor doer. I agree it's not the set up I feel is ideal for a pony like that but I don't have any other options. He's very independent and isn't fussed if there are others around or not, more so if he has food!

His field is currently very green but short but he is out grazing when he hasn't got any hay left.

He doesn't get aggressive with food, not like my mare where she'd shoo anyone away if they even look in the wrong direction when she's still eating but he does put his ears back and get stompy/head throwy when I'm walking over with his bucket which I have yet to understand. He will back up and wait for me to put it down or would follow me to where ever I'm going to put it but his ears would be back, like it's impatience. I can stand with him, brush, pat, whatever while he's eating so he's not warning me off as such like some others do with their dinners, it's only when I'm putting his feed out but he's fine once he has it. I don't know, it's odd. He doesn't do it with his hay.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
What is your current management regime?

I'm in agreement with the poster above, and would strongly suspect that this is not necessarily a "hunger" issue; I would be looking more at a "boredom" issue tbh. Is your horse out with others? And if so, what sort of herd is he with? Does he have the chance to interact with other horses? Ideally he needs to be out in a fast-moving herd where there is plenty going on - or one with a few dominant mares who'd hurry him along a bit - rather than a more static (perhaps veteran) herd. Right now you've obviously got him on a regime where all he has to do is eat!!

Can I challenge your mindset? You are currently perceiving that he "has" to have something to nibble at, ALL of the time. But horses do not need this!! My mare is a good doer and is greedy, and I'm needing to reduce her weight considerably, and I know that if I put down even oat straw (which she's on at the moment, mixed in with her haylage), she'd gob down the lot and wouldn't stop till she'd eaten it all. But once she's eaten what I've given her, she then goes for some four hours before she has anything else! My vet says that a four-hour interval between "feeding" is OK.

If you are unable to change the regime your horse is currently on, then you could consider some horsey toys to keep him occupied?
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Thank you. I have just replied to another poster which answers some of your points.

I admit, I would love him to be in a big herd but I just don't have that option. Yes, he probably is bored to an extent but he has hours of playtime with horses from all sides of his fence or grooming time.

I don't know what other toys to get other than a jolly ball which he already has but I will Google it. I'm not doing as much with him as I should be either which doesn't help, I know and I will be picking this up in the New Year.

You're right, he doesn't need something to have all the time and I don't mind him going a few hours without because he does have grass to pick at, I think it's more just that he's running out so quickly rather than it lasting several hours and the problem is that when he hasn't got food, he's eating shelters and breaking things so yes, he probably is bored, you are right and the only thing I can do currently is provide distractions. I guess my go-to for that was food but maybe something like a hayball would tie the two in together.
 
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