Ideas please....Elderly horse lameness-laminitis?

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lout

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hi there
I'd welcome a few thoughts on this please.

My old horse is lame.

He is a 31yr old TBx, ex event/dressage/all round superstar with high mileage.
He winters out with a rug, a shelter, haylage and coarsemix hardfeed and is in general good health apart from stiffness behind.

He has been lame since Saturday. Really feely in front, not actually limping.I thought perhaps the frozen ground might have bruised his feet since he has always been footsore in these conditions but this time he seems no better on soft grass.

His coronets are warm but not the feet and he is leaning back a little to relieve the pain/soreness

It has just occured to me the possibility of laminitis? Is it likely? He has never had it before but the way he is standing is a similar stance. He had been on a fresh batch of haylage for a week before I noticed the lameness.

any thoughts on this?

I was thinking of getting the farrier out but theres nothing to trim and no obvious gravel either.
thanks
 
from what you say its highly likely its laminitis.

he needs to be in on a very deep shavings bed (right up to the door), hay soaked for as long as poss pref 12-24hrs, if no hay available straight away then soak the haylage for as long as poss, you need to try and keep stress levels down so make sure he has company, give 1 or 2 bute if you have them and vet first thing in the morning, no course mix due to high sugar levels in molasses and no chaff with molasses, no apples/carrots or extras.

staying out on rutted frozen ground is the worst thing for his feet and increasing the pain he must be in
 
thanks jools2345
******!

if it is laminitis - why would it come on after 31 years? an age related change to his metabolism? perhaps something else failing inside him?

taking him off haylage will be tricky since he has been allergic to hay since I got him as a 5yr old.

I can see this will be a nightmare, full of 'is this the TIME' questions between my sister and I.

******......again
 
could be insulin resistance which they can be medicated for but could be many things you really need to speak to an equine vet and discuss management and prognosis then discuss with your sister and make some decisions
 
Ground frosts can increase the risk of laminitis.

Personally, having lost one of mine to laminitis, I'd get the vet out tomorrow. Get on the phone first thing!

As said, get him inside and on a lovely, thick bed.

If you can't feed him hay, give his haylage a REALLY good soaking. Then he has something to eat, but that has very low nutritional value.

As to why it could come on at 31 years- in my experience, lami is a total *******er. My pony's front feet were fine, his back feet were the one affected. If the vet confirms that's what it is, be wary of a second strike. That's what got my pony. He was getting better (able to trot in the field) and then it struck him down again, and that was that.

If it is lami, I'd also get your farrier out. My farrier came out to see Harry after the vet had been and taken his shoe off. Farrier said that was about the last thing he would have done, as it was at least offering some support to him. Had the farrier and vet been there at the same time, I would've followed the farrier's advice there. He was worth his weight in gold.
 
At 31, your horse almost certainly has some degree of Cushings. Has he ever been tested? Cushings, especially untreated and especially long term, causes laminitis. If he hasn't had it done I'd get his ACTH levels tested (test is free at the moment via talkaboutcushings.com) and if positive get him started on Prascend asap. Not cheap but will turn him around in 2 weeks. But you'll always have to treat him as a laminitic now and the first thing to do, as already advised, is to get him in, on deep shavings right up to his stable door, and get the vet out. Good luck.
 
My 36 yr old pony whose never had any illnesses came down with Laminitis 3 months ago. I thought it was the ground being hard and his arthritis playing up, but vet confirmed Laminitis. He was x rayed and had pedal bone rotation in both fore feet.
I was shocked as i have owned him since he was 20 yrs old and never once had any hoof problems. He has had the Cushings test which is free at the moment and it came back negative. He is on limited turn out, deep bed to the door, has heart bar shoes on and on a low sugar high fibre diet. My next road is to test him for EMS, please get your horse checked by a vet , i thought the same he couldnt get Laminitis but he did.
 
My horse is 34 now, when he was about 25 he got lami, no reason, he was fit, ridden every day, not overweight. Vet thought it was either an age thing, no sign of cushings, and/or the fact that at the time the grass had grown all summer like spring grass because we hadn't had a good summer and it hadn't got scorched so was lush all the the time.

I treated it as am emergency and called the vet straight away
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
At 31, your horse almost certainly has some degree of Cushings. Has he ever been tested? Cushings, especially untreated and especially long term, causes laminitis. If he hasn't had it done I'd get his ACTH levels tested (test is free at the moment via talkaboutcushings.com) and if positive get him started on Prascend asap. Not cheap but will turn him around in 2 weeks. But you'll always have to treat him as a laminitic now and the first thing to do, as already advised, is to get him in, on deep shavings right up to his stable door, and get the vet out. Good luck.
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Mine is 34 and shows no signs of cushings, has been checked by vet but not blood tested but is showing no symptoms. Do all horses over a certain age have cushings ?
 
hi jools2345 / everyone

at the risk of sounding like a really bad owner.........no, I haven't called the vet yet.
I went to see him this morning (dreading it) with the intention of re-assessing and consulting with sister with a view to organising a vet for tomorrow afternoon, when we can both be there. (assuming he wasn't distressed)

......and what I was greeted with was a stiff old boy jogging up the field which is a huge improvement to the weekend.

I'm not ruling out a vet visit, but I'm fairly sure if a vet saw him today they would say "duh!! what do you expect at his age!"

So the compromise solution at the moment, while we keep an eye on him is no hardfeed at all, we have let him out into the big field so he is more inclined to wander about and loosen off (theres no early grass there yet) , getting the blood pumping in all the places it should pump in the process and take it from there. He managed a bronc and a little canter so he isn't as sore as I feared the other day.

I realise this is a bit of a gamble, but my mind was put at ease earlier today by the guy who made the haylage. I had an awful feeling I had been given early cut beautiful nutritious stuff but the guy confirmed its all late cut, belly filler stuff.

I guess at his age, with the high mileage its only a matter of time before something 'falls off'......and if it is confirmed as laminitis of whatever scale then it is unlikely my sis and I will go down the heavy intervention route. If that is the case we will probably aim to get him comfortable and make 'the decision' at some point in the summer.

Tomorrow could be a different story ....... but fortunately for us he lives on a friends smallholding so if there is any serious change and cause for concern I'll be informed.

thanks again
 
lout said:
hi jools2345 / everyone

at the risk of sounding like a really bad owner.........no, I haven't called the vet yet.
I went to see him this morning (dreading it) with the intention of re-assessing and consulting with sister with a view to organising a vet for tomorrow afternoon, when we can both be there. (assuming he wasn't distressed)

......and what I was greeted with was a stiff old boy jogging up the field which is a huge improvement to the weekend.

I'm not ruling out a vet visit, but I'm fairly sure if a vet saw him today they would say "duh!! what do you expect at his age!"

So the compromise solution at the moment, while we keep an eye on him is no hardfeed at all, we have let him out into the big field so he is more inclined to wander about and loosen off (theres no early grass there yet) , getting the blood pumping in all the places it should pump in the process and take it from there. He managed a bronc and a little canter so he isn't as sore as I feared the other day.

I realise this is a bit of a gamble, but my mind was put at ease earlier today by the guy who made the haylage. I had an awful feeling I had been given early cut beautiful nutritious stuff but the guy confirmed its all late cut, belly filler stuff.

I guess at his age, with the high mileage its only a matter of time before something 'falls off'......and if it is confirmed as laminitis of whatever scale then it is unlikely my sis and I will go down the heavy intervention route. If that is the case we will probably aim to get him comfortable and make 'the decision' at some point in the summer.

Tomorrow could be a different story ....... but fortunately for us he lives on a friends smallholding so if there is any serious change and cause for concern I'll be informed.

thanks again
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its good that he is more comfortable and yes its a risk to put him in the bigger field but i would probably do the same, are you sure he has not got himself cast? if it does turn out to be laminitis and you are not going to go down the heavy intervention route (i would not at his age) then dont try to make him comfortable till the summer, i have never seen that work-just call it a day and let him go, it can take a long time to get them comfortable, my cousin spent 14months trying and when he finally went he was a mess and had been really suffering for a long time, even then the vet wanted to keep trying (they had already severed his tendon to try and stop the rotation)
 
It would still be worth taking advantage of the blood test voucher then at least you know what you are dealing with and if necessary medicate for Cushings.
 
thanks, ill bear that in mind.

and yep, his mobility/happiness is more important to us than our need to see his summer coat.

fingers crossed........although if this doesn't get him something else will be round the corner!
 
If it were me I would take off haylage and feed hay as a precaution. If it were me I'd have called the vet anyway or farrier to rule out lami, I'd rather know. Yours might have only had it mild, a warning.
 
I'm glad to hear he's feeling better but agree totally with Jools. If it is lami, why would you keep him going until summer just to have him PTS then? If that is your decision, then do it as soon as he starts to suffer. I understand that you are in a horrible situation, and I don't mean to be harsh, but I don't understand how "he has lami, let's have him PTS in July" for example is justifiable in anyway. If he starts to suffer, bear in mind that he has made it to a fab age, and that after all the years of friendship he has given you, the least you can do to thank him is let him go quietly and with dignity.

Also please bear in mind that lami can make a sudden comeback. It did in my pony- it came back much MUCH worse than the first bout, and that was when we called it a day.
 
totally agree hnmisty
and yep he is a great age! looking pretty good for it too really.
we've had 26 years of ups and downs.......only stopped riding him 4 years ago due to him acting like a prat and not being young enough to not fall over!
things seem ok at the moment but thanks for reminding me that they can change suddenly.

as i said earlier if this doesnt 'get' him something else will round the corner....
 
Re Cushings: have a look at the Cushings or laminitis website for definitive info on Cushings. The statistics say over 80% of horses over 25 will have Cushings and it gets more certain with age. And no, Cushings can't NECESSARILY be diagnosed just by looking at the horse. Some symptoms are so obviously Cushings that it's easy but there are a host of other symptoms that are much harder. The long curly coat that doesn't shed properly is a doddle. But other symptoms include sudden onset laminitis, skin problems that don't heal, infestations that can't be controlled, poor health that doesn't respond well to treatment, very sweaty, stinky sweat that pongs to high heaven of strong cheese, ataxia, confusion, weight loss, lethargy, excessive drinking and peeing. It really is worth getting the ACTH test done for peace of mind. And Prascend given at the correct dosage if Cushings is confirmed will reverse all the symptoms and you will have your "old" horse back again!
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
Re Cushings: have a look at the Cushings or laminitis website for definitive info on Cushings. The statistics say over 80% of horses over 25 will have Cushings and it gets more certain with age. And no, Cushings can't NECESSARILY be diagnosed just by looking at the horse. Some symptoms are so obviously Cushings that it's easy but there are a host of other symptoms that are much harder. The long curly coat that doesn't shed properly is a doddle. But other symptoms include sudden onset laminitis, skin problems that don't heal, infestations that can't be controlled, poor health that doesn't respond well to treatment, very sweaty, stinky sweat that pongs to high heaven of strong cheese, ataxia, confusion, weight loss, lethargy, excessive drinking and peeing. It really is worth getting the ACTH test done for peace of mind. And Prascend given at the correct dosage if Cushings is confirmed will reverse all the symptoms and you will have your "old" horse back again!
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ALL medication has a risk of side effects though and personally after seeing the side effects that 3 ponies i have been directly involves with i would think long and hard before giving it, my boss now will not use it again after the side effects her 2 ponies had, so please dont put it forward as a wonder drug. also it is not always possible to find the money for the rising cost of keeping the older horse when daily medication becomes a factor, in which case the sensible option is to prevent any days of suffering by pts
 
thanks BoxofFrogs

I hear what you are saying but obviously every case if different and whilst medicating a horse and managing a condition will give some a longer, more comfortable life in my case no amount of Cushings drugs / laminitis intervention will make my horse younger and fix his increasingly stiff hip.....

he really is in great shape for his age and until this scare the only thing giving the game away was his stiffness behind. Bodies don't last forever, bits stop working or seize up, functions close down.

his pal was pts about 4 years ago. they were the same age at the time, they wintered out together and at this time of year she was always ahead of mine in body and coat condition. the year she died was the year that i remarked......."this is odd.....my boys coat is in better nick than hers...." that was the outward sign of something wrong inside - even though she was bright and chipper. I think it was about a month later when she was pts. one morning she struggled to walk up the field, struggled to lift her head up. most likely a tumor in her chest somewhere. the clues are there usually.

Whilst it is difficult to make 'that' decision, and will get more difficult when it is clear that 'that' is the only option, I think it is important to remain as objective as possible and see the bigger picture.

still sucks though!
 
lout said:
thanks BoxofFrogs

Bodies don't last forever, bits stop working or seize up, functions close down.


Whilst it is difficult to make 'that' decision, and will get more difficult when it is clear that 'that' is the only option, I think it is important to remain as objective as possible and see the bigger picture.

still sucks though!
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well said
 
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