Idiots guide to lorries, payloads etc please!

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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As title really.

OK peeps, talk to me about lorries - for 2 horses, payloads, and anything else I need to know!

Am thinking of getting a small lorry, and am mega confused about payloads and what is legal.

I have two horses: one is a heavily built 15.1hh traditional cob (I dunno what he weighs TBH - no sarky comments please!); and I'm looking for another horse at the moment which hopefully will be around the 14.2 mark.

I shan't need living accommodation.

So what sort of payload would be safe, and legal, for this kind of combination??

I don't think I need a 7.5, or do I??

Observations, suggestions, and recommendations welcome! (but please be gentle with me coz mechanical and calculative stuff just ain't my speciality :) )
 
Hi your payload is the weight
You can legally carry including horses, you, passengers kit etc. So if you had a 5.5 ton lorry and the lorry weighed 4.2 tonnes empty you would legally be able to carry 1.3 tonnes of horses, you, passengers, kit etc. A lot of 3.5 ton lorries are advertised for 2 horses, but whether they are safe or legal is another matter! Doubt you would need 7.5 ton for the horses you describe though.
 
If you work on the basis that each horse is roughly half a ton I'd want at least 1.5 tons payload. By the time you add in fuel, water, 2 people, tack, hay etc you'd be pretty close to the limit. Beware, just because a lorry is advertised as heavier, it doesn't mean that you have more payload. Plenty of 7.5 ton lorries only have 1.5 tons payload, because a lot of weight goes into the living. And don't be fooled by advertisements that say "stalled for 3". Just because they have space for 3 doesn't mean they have payload for 3.
 
A heavy traditional will weigh at a guess over 600kg, a chunky 14.2 around 500kg so 1100 min in total, add on 2 adults 130kg plus tack, water and anything else required and you are looking at needing a payload of around 1500kgs minimum, no 3.5 ton box will have that so you are looking at a 5 ton upwards if you want to take both.
 
Add the axle weights, deduct from gross weight and what you have left is what you can carry.

My 15.1 maxi cob weighs in at 788kg and she would not fit in one of those van type boxes that seem to be so popular.
 
To find out what your lorry can carry in it then empty out any thing in the back. fill the tank with fuel and whilst sitting in it weigh it at a weighbridge - that will get your payload without having to add your self into the calculation each time

You are legally allowed to load a vehicle then take it directly to and from a weighbridge back to its loading point without penalty with the only caveat being that it must not be unsafe
 
AdorableAlice said:
Add the axle weights, deduct from gross weight and what you have left is what you can carry.
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incorrect calculation because the total of the axle weights will always add up to more than the plated GVW/MAM weight

Example on a lorry weight plate
7500 GVW
12500 GTW
3700 Front axle
4600 Rear axle

The axles total 8300 with a GVW of 7500 - this is so there is flexibility in the placing of the load
 
Also take into account that quite a few 3.5 ton lorries can be uprated to 3.9 ton thus giving you an extra 400 kg payload to add to the lorries normal payload, so say you find a lorry with payload of 1100 then get it uprated to 3.9 , you get payload of 1500
Some 3.5 ton modern lorries can have payload of 1300 , like BOSS LORRIES, really depends on how many extras you have built in, like sink, cooker, wardrobe in grooms area, bed over the cab, the less extras then more payload you have.
 
Ours is a 7.5 ton and unladen weights 5.2t.
We had a new body built as the old one was 6.5t unladen.

So we have a 2.3t payload.

The horses we have now one weights 700kilos the other 640kilos (have spillers out with weight bridge once a year) so that's roughly 1340 of horses so I have just about a tonne left over for fuel people and crap.
Also you have to becareful of where you place the heavier horse.

Ours is stalled for four but we only take max of three if needed but at somepoint we will be body swapping onto a ten or fourteen tonner.

I would not be comfortable with any less than 300 kilos left over. But that's me, I don't like to be right up to the mark.
Plus having a dad as a class one driver hammers weight and payloads into you 😂
 
Often you get more payload from a 6/6.5t box than a 7.5t. Pepper Harrow for example.

I would want more than a 3.5t for those two horses and people, tack etc.
 
I have a 4t box, 3.5t size if that makes sense. Very light build so no fancy living, cookers, fridges etc. That gives enough payload for two full size horses, tack, gear and 2 people. I take a 16h WB and a 16.3 ID x TB comfortably. It means I can't just have a normal car MOT like people with "proper" 3.5t boxes, but parts aren't ridiculously expensive, fuel costs are less and it's really easy to drive and manoeuvre, which all made it a more appealing option to me than a proper lorry.

If you decide to get a 3.5t uprated you probably want to look at Vauxhall Movano, Peugeot Boxer and Fiat Ducato. Also make sure the engine has enough poke. Mine is 3 litre which is plenty, but I am not sure what it would feel like driving fully loaded up a big hill with some of the smaller engines you can get.
 
Micropony said:
I have a 4t box, 3.5t size if that makes sense. Very light build so no fancy living, cookers, fridges etc. That gives enough payload for two full size horses, tack, gear and 2 people. I take a 16h WB and a 16.3 ID x TB comfortably. It means I can't just have a normal car MOT like people with "proper" 3.5t boxes, but parts aren't ridiculously expensive, fuel costs are less and it's really easy to drive and manoeuvre, which all made it a more appealing option to me than a proper lorry.

If you decide to get a 3.5t uprated you probably want to look at Vauxhall Movano, Peugeot Boxer and Fiat Ducato. Also make sure the engine has enough poke. Mine is 3 litre which is plenty, but I am not sure what it would feel like driving fully loaded up a big hill with some of the smaller engines you can get.
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Not seen one of those before. Where did you get it or do you know who builds these? I've looked at the 5t-7.5t range and the tend to be a bit bigger than the 3.5t type.

3.5t don't really have the payload for two decent sized horses.
 
Bernster, mine is Equi trek but I think there are a few who build similar, and if you were having one built I would have thought most would be able to accommodate. It's basically just an uprated 3.5t but built that way to start with iykwim. I think you can get them the same size but rated at 4.5t which would give you enough for a bit of a heavier build with more lockers and more "stuff" inside. They are like gold dust to find secondhand, I was extremely lucky. Most people want something that can be driven on a normal young person licence. To get one uprated isn't expensive, from what I understand it just requires you to buy the right thing to start with and be prepared to do a bit of paperwork.
 
You'll quite possibly have to uprate tyres and springs too.

Going back to OP, my guess is that you'll need a 4.2T at least. So much as always depends on your budget. What are you looking to spend?

And also, do you really want as car like a driving experience as possible or does the idea of driving a "lorry" not faze you?
 
turnbuckle said:
And also, do you really want as car like a driving experience as possible or does the idea of driving a "lorry" not faze you?
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this is something to consider. I bought a 7.5t without ever driving one before ( sounds a bit stupid I know !) It took a me a few trips out to get used to driving the lorry. The whole bouncing as you drive was a bit weird, and the no 'bonnet' was also strange at first. I reckon if I had test drove one before hand I wouldn't have bought one. Love it now though, and wouldn't go back.

Mine has 1.9t payload, and plenty of room for 2 big chunks, with a decent living. I never have to worry about being pulled over by the police for being over weight. ( hahaha, I might be, but the lorry is slimline )
 
I had a 6.6t Mcneills build Mercedes (Highbarn) and it had nearly two tons of payload. It was a great lorry really well designed. Peper Harrow is boxes are built I believe by the son of Ian McNeill and they're very similar.
 
I have driven 18T lorries, stalled for 6, a 12T stalled for 4, 7.5 tonne for 3, and I now have a small van type, that was 3.5 but I uprated to 3.95.

The bigger boxes give more space, more solidness, but also are a bit of a faff. I love my new van type, and I could have had it uprated to 4.5.

If you uprate them above 3.5 you do have to have a limiter, but that is OK for me as I don't drive fast with horses on anyway. Mine is a Renault, and I have an automatic.

I only had the auto as I have a hip/ back injury, but I have been surprised at how good it is. For example, if I come off the motorway to a downhill roundabout, the box down changes automatically so it slows without dipping at the front, all smoothly.

Because I had the auto I could not have a secondhand one, as they are like gold dust! Manual ones secondhand are more common.

The basic box had a start payload of 1200kgs, so if you also uprate you will have enough. I had mine made for one horse, packed with extras, such as toilet area, fans, shower, huge tack locker, seats, wardrobe...so mine weighed more, but uprated is still capable of packing whatever I want.

So, a small box is a possibility, but as the lighter ones are more expensive it may not be the cheapest. Having said that I am returning 30mpg, more than OH's car! With the price of fuel this has got to be a consideration.
 
I have a new conversion Peugeot 3.5 tonne.

My new horse is a big ID. At three years old I can carry another lightweight horse with him, but doubt that I will. Next year I won't take him with another as it's too tight on the payload of 1.2 tonne.

Would like to keep the 3.5 as it's economical to run and easy to manoeuvre. But can't take two horses.

My mechanic is dead set against me uprating the 3.5 tonne. Says it can't be done and it's not a good idea.

Ditto the don't be fooled by the partitioning for a hundred horses, it's the payload that's important, which is the one yhing that usually gets left off adverts!
 
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I'm in the process of trying to buy a lorry and I'm amazed at how many sellers have no idea of payload and just make comments like "oh well I've taken 2 16.2s no problem". Great, but was it legal?????

I have made it clear that I won't buy without proof of weight. There are plenty of weighbridges around and it's usually about a tenner a go.
 
Terrifying isn't it what people are driving in without thought. V posh top end box recently, 6 seater payload started as about 1t, then dropped to 800kg no details if that was just with driver or with 6 people but I think we can guess :p even having stated that when someone said but it can't take 2 horses without being overweight the seller was replying saying it could take two 16.2s I couldn't decide if they were just being avoidant or really didn't have a clue! Mine had a cert with details of driver and fuel on board. I only needed enough to travel one but it is important for resale. The posh boxes with small payload seem to be around a long time
 
JulesRules said:
I'm in the process of trying to buy a lorry and I'm amazed at how many sellers have no idea of payload and just make comments like "oh well I've taken 2 16.2s no problem". Great, but was it legal?????

I have made it clear that I won't buy without proof of weight. There are plenty of weighbridges around and it's usually about a tenner a go.
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I've just had a horrid experience of buying a 3.5T horsebox - an EXPENSIVE one from a seemingly reputable trader - who promised me a payload of 1.14T (and produced a certificate to prove it). When I got it home and things started to drop off it, a crack appeared in the back (had been hidden by the number plate until it dropped off) - so I took it for an inspection - amongst other things the suspension was gone - not fot to carry a few boxes certainly not a horse! So took it to a weighbridge as really not happy by now - and the payload was only 900kilos!! He EVENTUALLY took it back 3 weeks later, but only because we spent a fortune on legal advice, and even then withheld some of our money. Please please please BUYER BEWARE - esp with these 3.5T conversions - he threw the weight certificate back at us, and told us the chassis had nothing to do with him, he was only responsible for the box on the back - totally unbelievable!!
 
JulesRules said:
I'm in the process of trying to buy a lorry and I'm amazed at how many sellers have no idea of payload and just make comments like "oh well I've taken 2 16.2s no problem". Great, but was it legal?????

I have made it clear that I won't buy without proof of weight. There are plenty of weighbridges around and it's usually about a tenner a go.
Click to expand...

I've just had a horrid experience of buying a 3.5T horsebox - an EXPENSIVE one from a seemingly reputable trader - who promised me a payload of 1.14T (and produced a certificate to prove it). When I got it home and things started to drop off it, a crack appeared in the back (had been hidden by the number plate until it dropped off) - so I took it for an inspection - amongst other things the suspension was gone - not fit to carry a few boxes certainly not a horse! So took it to a weighbridge as really not happy by now - and the payload was only 900kilos!! He EVENTUALLY took it back 3 weeks later, but only because we spent a fortune on legal advice, and even then withheld some of our money. Please please please BUYER BEWARE - esp with these 3.5T conversions - he threw the weight certificate back at us, and told us the chassis had nothing to do with him, he was only responsible for the box on the back - totally unbelievable!!
 
A 2ndhand box will have a plating certificate with its weight on. We usually make sure we have at least 1/2 tank of diesel and one water carrier on,for plating so that we have a more accurate idea of available weight for horses/people.
 
JulesRules said:
I'm in the process of trying to buy a lorry and I'm amazed at how many sellers have no idea of payload and just make comments like "oh well I've taken 2 16.2s no problem". Great, but was it legal?????

I have made it clear that I won't buy without proof of weight. There are plenty of weighbridges around and it's usually about a tenner a go.
Click to expand...

I would prefer we went to the weigh bridge together, as some people will weigh with a minute driver, no water, almost no fuel, no partitions, no rubber on the floor, in short they will strip it down to a frame to get the certificate.

When I sold my last box (7.5 tonne) I weighed it with my ex rugby prop forward husband, 3/4 tank of fuel, all cushions, cupboards, gas cylinder, some water, plates, snacks, first aid kit, spare clothes, headcollars, boots, toiletries, toilet..... To me that was a 3 small horse, or two large ones, as there was still over 1.5 tonnes, and some more kit could have been removed. All that needed adding for an outing was a horse, a passenger, hay and tack. It was not a fancy build though, not "coachbuilt" and no luton. Many many 7.5 tonnes have very little payload at all if they are not stripped out.
 
Really good point above about certs, when I took my Horsebox to be weighed I stood next to the guy who printed the ticket off so I wasn't even in the box when it was weighed.

Also although you'd have two horses it's worth thinking if the likelihood of you taking them both somewhere, I go to shows alone so would only ever take one, it means that not only do I not have to worry about weight but I can set the partition to give me loads of space to groom/ tack up/change in the box - useful as so many venues won't let you tie up outside any more.
 
JulesRules said:
I'm in the process of trying to buy a lorry and I'm amazed at how many sellers have no idea of payload and just make comments like "oh well I've taken 2 16.2s no problem". Great, but was it legal?????

I have made it clear that I won't buy without proof of weight. There are plenty of weighbridges around and it's usually about a tenner a go.
Click to expand...

I have just seen one 7.5 horsebox with living and stalled for three advertised with 4.5 tonne payload! They'd got confused with axle weights..... minefield as far too many people don't have a clue about what there box can legally carry and even what their horses actually weigh!

My current box has basically an unfitted living and huge horse area (large horse) and has a 2.5 tonne payload which is the reason I bought it as the two horses I had weighed over 800kg and 700kg and my ID would not fit in a conventional rear ramp/herringbone partition with another horse due to the length of him.
 
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I am also astounded by the number of sellers who have no idea about payload. They aay "we take 2 x 16hh out in it every week" etc.
I have been looking for a friend and came across one recently (owner had been using it to travel 2 ponies) - no idea of payload. Took it to weighbridge . 500kg payload.

I had to advise friend (with a 12 2 and a 14 2 cob) that by the time she took her 12 2, husband and daughter, fuel and tack they woukd probably be overweight. She would never be able to put her 14.2 in it unless he could drive it himself!
 
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