iF BE offered refund insurance policy.........

OldGit

OldGit

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Would anyone be interested. If it is a separate issue then people whose horses have "iron legs" wouldn't be affected similarly people who don't want to pay anymore wouldn't have to. But by knowing that you wouldn't be penalised for "medical withdrawals" people wouldn't leave it to the last minute and others may get the chance of a run.
I'm writing this as Mysterygirl is driving to the yard to meet the vet as her pony now has a big knee. Weston looks a forlorn hope
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yes, definitely. or, they could just make it a rule that all Entries Secs keep a waitlist, and that if your place is filled then you get a refund (minus a bit of admin charges.) this would be a very good start.
i'd rather pay £10 extra and know i'd get a refund if i couldn't run, personally.
really hope it's good news about the poorly knee...
 
I thought the refund insurance was already included - hence the price rise this season!

IMO the entries secs are now getting round this by refusing to run a wait list.

'Medical' withdrawals, horse or rider should always get a refund if accompanied with a certificate.

I have entry fee loss covered on my horse insurance, does anyone else?
 
I think that waitlists should be compulsory and event should have to try and fill your place and refund you. It would be so easy for BE to implement this rule and they have zero interest in doing so.
 
But, although this is a possible good idea, if you are competing at novice level and pay £10 extra each time, you HAVE to WD once in every 7 runs or youll make a bigger loss!
 
We're just about to lose £500 + due to withdrawal at Weston hence post. The costing would be tricky to price, but hey thats what insurance companies do. It would then be uo to the individual whether they "risk it" without or take advantage of a safety cushion.
 
Absolutely. Friend with a couple of horses pulled one from "an unspecified CCI" lost entry, went to watch and saw the number had been reallocated. Now that is taking the piss and should be stamped on
 
I moan about this every year. Waitlists would be so easy to manage as well. If you are replaced from the waitlist you should also be made to volunteer at the event. Such a simple plan would stop so much ill feeling. But what do I know having lost in the last 2 seasons £500?
 
Fingers crossed for the pony.

I'd definitely opt to pay it on all of my entries, for cancellation and injury cover, although if I were you I'd be checking if it's in your current insurance. I wouldn't want to claim for the odd one day but at that price I'm sure it would be worth looking into it.
 
btw, the last time the subject of refunds came up on here, and i was vocal as usual, i received this interesting info from an event organiser:

"I have noticed the recent comments about refund policy at BE events. This is an area that the BEOA have spent considerable time over the past 4 years trying to resolve but each time we come up with a possible solution it gets rejected by some influential organisers.

I would be interested how many riders take into account the refund policy stated in the schedule for each event? If you look at the events scheduled for the end of october each one has a very different policy!!

BE have always had a rule that all WDs before ballot are refunded in full, and in 2009 added that those replaced from the wait list are refunded minus a £10 admin charge. The reaction of some events is now not to hold a wait list but to accept 45+ entries per section assuming that natural wastage drops the number down to the permitted 42 runners. (Not surprisingly these tend to be the popular events at central locations and are usually full at ballot).

All events are independent organisations, who pay an affiliation fee to BE, sign an affiliation agreement to abide by the rules set by BE, but receive no financial support and need to be able to remain viable, some on rented sites have considerable overheads and repair/ restoration clauses in their contracts.
In the case of an abandoned event, 90% of the entry fee is refunded by the event, but none of the 10.3% abandonment insurance premium added to all entries this year and collected by the events on behalf of BE and their insurers.
Discussion points for some of your interested competitors!!"

So, tbh it is certain Organisers that are at fault at the moment... although i guess that BE could make it a rule if they chose to.

at BE90 and BE100, which are the only levels i have exact numbers for, the Organiser gets 50% of the entry fee (total incl start fee), BE gets 30%, the rest goes on VAT (if applicable), levy, and insurance.
perhaps BE is just taking too much at the moment, leaving Organisers too strapped to do refunds, even fair ones.
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Kerry thats really interesting reading. Might be worth pushing BE to clamp down on organisers, just so refunds is not a postal lottery. Given current climate, users/customers have a bit more clout at present
 
Very interesting.........hmmm! Can't possibly comment at the mo..........
Old Git, thank you for very nice PM on this subject this morning........don't seem to be able to reply....are your PM's full, or is there another reason???
 
30% of every entry is a high amount of money. If they dropped it to say 25% surely everyone would be happier. Now I understand why unaff is so attractive to organisers.
 
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..and what does the 30% actually get used for??

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paying for all the BE staff etc, i guess. i'm not sure.
i was told that BE has more staff than any other sport in the UK, no idea if it is true though. if it is, it's quite amazing for such a minority sport...
 
The unfairness of the present system is that the amateur rider is the one that is being screwed each time.The pro riders just substitute a horse and cough up their £10 but of course us mortals dont have the horse power to do this.As the rule states you can substitute horse or rider but not both.
One way forward may be to allow riders to find their own replacements and allow this for a admin fee(I feel another website coming on).
We are insured for loss of unrecoverable entry fees ONLY if we actually lose the horse not for veterinary reasons so check your policies carefully.I do not think you will find an insurance company that will touch this type of insurance as a stand alone product at a premium that would make sense and would probably only do it if every entry was covered to spread risk.They would quite rightly feel that the people who went for the insurance was a larger risk to pull out than the ones who didnt.
Particularly with the ground conditions at present people would enter knowing they can withdraw if things dont improve and get a refund.
Its a very difficult balance to achieve there are are organisers and riders that would abuse whatever system that is in place.
I have heard that Weston has been particularly been naughty even refusing stabling refunds were they have been asked for before the cut off date advertised using the excuse that the stabling has already gone up
 
I have mixed feelings about this issue, if you buy a ticket or book something and can't go for any reason do you expect a refund?
I would still prefer to get refunds when I have to withdraw, and agree that you should be able to do a replacement entry for an admin charge, I just dont see that this would be a problem for organisers.
I suspect that the root of the problem is that BE take too much fron the organisers, but is the levy not calculated on the number of starters rather than the number of entries received.
 
Maybe someone like Shearwater or SEIB or any other insurance company should offer insurance. Competley seperate to BE, nothing to do with them.

If you have to cancel you get your entry fees back. How much per year/run would you pay for that? How much would they have to charge? You could get No Claims Bonus
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I have mixed feelings about this issue, if you buy a ticket or book something and can't go for any reason do you expect a refund?

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No, but if the venue manages to sell it on, I don't expect them to charge me AND the person who does get to go, which is what happens currently. In fact they charge me, and then they charge the other person up to £10 more on occasion if they accept a late entry. That is what is grossly unfair.
 
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I have mixed feelings about this issue, if you buy a ticket or book something and can't go for any reason do you expect a refund?



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You can sell/give your theatre ticket/grand prix ticket/ whatever/ on thats the difference!!!!
 
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Maybe someone like Shearwater or SEIB or any other insurance company should offer insurance. Competley seperate to BE, nothing to do with them.

If you have to cancel you get your entry fees back. How much per year/run would you pay for that? How much would they have to charge? You could get No Claims Bonus
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Shearwater won't - I rang them and asked them about it.
 
We will be looking to see if lost fees are covered on insurance but there is another case of screwing horse owners. If we claim to get fees back the leg will be uninsurable!! Ggggrrrrrrrrrrr. Whats worse I'm playing mafia wars and out of energy and stamina so can't kill anyone. Watch out patients tomorrow!!!!!!!
 
But the horse insurance isn't just about claims made. Most likely that leg will be uninsurable now regardless of whether you make a claim. It's now in her records and would show up in the event of a future claim, showing as an existing condition.
 
That's my understanding. Once the leg is on record as having had problems any future issues will not be covered.

As for the refunds, having lost several hundred pounds worth of entry fees this year I'm not very amused. I agree with the quote kerilli has used from the event organiser: check the refund policy and vote with your feet!
 
The wording on the policy we have just renewed is that they will not pay on any condition that occured pre renewal.This means anything not just those claimed for.However it does not mean for example a different condition in the same limb were as before they would exclude a whole limb.
 
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