If seller misleads buyer - is there anything that can be done

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rosiema1

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Last year I moved into a dressage yard in Hampshire with my retired mare. The yard owners were very friendly and saw that I was keen to buy a new horse or two. They interested me in a rising 3 year old by Pro-Set, a delightful young horse who had been with them since a yearling. I bought him for 20k (I won't do that again).
I had him vetted, the vet gave the certificate to the yard owner, who held onto it. I was told by the yard owner that the horse was perfect although he had a wart on his leg. I stupidly didn't ask to see the certificate and wasn't given it. A couple of months later the horse was covered in sarcoids and when I finally saw the certificate it clearly stated that this was the case. There were numerous other incidents which I will not go into here.

I am of course totally responsible and to blame, ( buyer beware), but felt that as I was staying at the yard and buying another horse I had nothing to worry about. Relations soon deteriorated.The horse turned out to be unsuitable for me and I decided to sell having treated the sarcoids. They couldn't sell him and in the end relations broke down totally and after refusing to pay a bill for full livery when the horse was in the field I was asked to leave the yard. Evidently the accounts had been closed for the year. However, as this was £1000 that I didn't owe I decided only to pay the actual bill. I moved the horse a few days before Christmas a real nightmare

This year he is in a lovely environment in Cornwall but the sarcoids are back. I feel completely cheated and foolish for being so trusting and frustrated taht there is nothing I can do.

However, he is a lovely kind horse. A couple of showjumpers were interested in him recently sarcoids and all, but would probably not have paid more than £1000 for him and were put off by one sarcoid on the head.

Any advice re: sarcoid treatment appreciated and although I have tried to put this incident behind me I wish there was something I could do so that noone else is taken in like I was
 
I would get legal advice on this as it started so long ago (I know that you can still sue for some things for up to six years). I would have thought that you would have redress with the vet as it was you paying for the vet certificate and therefore it should have been given to you and not the horse owner. You certainly should be able to have some form of redress with the seller if they are a 'dealer' (someone who sells more than 3 horses in a year I think). Unfortunately if it was a private sale you may not have any comeback with the seller after all this time. Depends on whether you want to throw any more money at this situation or cut your losses.

As for sarcoid treatment, I had very successful results with Camrosa ointment but you MUST follow the instructions and the course to the letter or you will make the situation worse. Good luck with whatever you decide to do - keep us posted.
 
My friend had a horse with sarcoids and used the cream from Liverpool vet hopsital (your vet needs to get it and send pictures of the sarcoids to liverpool) Sarcoids did go
 
Why on earth would the vet give the veterinary report to the YO rather than sending it to you direct with your vetting bill???

And how would the sellers know any more than you that this horse would develop more sarcoids??

Sarcoids are really not the end of the world. As long as they don't interfere with eye sight, or saddle area etc.
 
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Why on earth would the vet give the veterinary report to the YO rather than sending it to you direct with your vetting bill???

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My thoughts exactly!

And 20k????
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Good question, the vet also verbally reported the findings to the yard owner. I spoke to him about this when he came out to look at the sarcoids.He also stated that sarcoids aren't the end of the earth. Sadly, they do seem to be if you are selling a horse.
When the horse broke out in sarcoids my yard owner told me not to panic as they were fly bites... Maybe he is just clueless after all
 
Presumably you weren't present at the vetting then???

Maybe you are asking too much for the horse??? I have just bought a new horse and he has a sarcoid developing. It didn't put me off, and it certainly didn't make any difference to the price. My vet pointed it out - gave the usual cautions, but was happy for me to purchase the horse.

You seem to have paid a huge amount for your horse - and possibly are looking at recouping the same????

People just won't pay it I'm afraid.
 
Thanks for the good advice. I am asking for £5k as he is lovely, moves well is well bred and is wonderful when loose jumped, a lovely pop. He is also a real gentleman to handle,
although he has a significant buck which he has proved a couple of times ( I am having his back and teeth looked at).

Sadly I can no longer afford to keep him, so I have to find him a good home after I treat the sarcoids. However, I will tell any prospective buyer that he has had sarcoids over 2 years, because its only fair...
 
They can be spread from one site to another by flies but Vets don't know if they can be spread from one horse to another by flies. There seems to be a lot of unknowns where sarcoids are concerned
 
Try Googling the new fraud act of 2006, it will make interesting reading for you.

My understanding of it is, is that if you deliberately withold information or fail to disclose something that, for example makes a horse worth much less, yet still accepted the full market value there may be an offence under this act.

Assuming you paid for the vetting the seller had no right to hold on to the report, it is your property and the vet is working for you, not the seller. You should try and get hold of a copy as of now!

Try contacting your local Trading Standards, the act was designed to stop rogue traders ie. people who do a poor job of an OAPs guttering that didn't need doing in the first place and charge the earth, people that sell dodgy cars and the like.

I don't see any reason why a horse dealer shouldn't be subject of the provisions of this act so get on the 'phone asap
 
I was a total idiot paying that much for a horse.. I know it. I now have a beautiful piebald who I am keeping in Cornwall, called George. He is two and is kind, gentle and moves beautifully. I will keep him in the field and will save like mad to break him in and bring him on slowly. He is young, but hopefully I will have him with me until we are old and grey. I will also always keep my old faithful showjumper Rosie May..
but cannot afford to keep three

They live in a lovely farm in Cornwall, where I pay a tenth of the livery that I did in Hampshire and where the service is more knowledgeable and caring. George cost £2K and was worth ten times as much...
 
Oh one more thing, I think the Fraud act would apply to private sellers as well as dealers, I have a contact in Trading Standards whose brain I could pick if you wish.

I think it would be worthwhile posting the result of her advice, as a prospective purchaser I think we could all do with more protection from those who don't disclose everything that's less than rosy about their horses
 
Everything is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and it is very sad that you had to learn a lesson the hard way! I hope everything goes well for you now and you get some sort of compensation for this situation, even if it is just cutting your losses and finding him a nice home.
 
Would you not feel misled if a vet gave your certificate to the seller of the horse who then refused to let you see it for some reason and then you found yourself in the same situation? Ok, so not everyone would be that 'gullible' (sorry - no offence) but it did happen and, yes, I think she was misled.
 
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Would you not feel misled if a vet gave your certificate to the seller of the horse who then refused to let you see it for some reason and then you found yourself in the same situation?

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She wasn't refused sight of the certificate - and if she was (by the YO), I would simply phone the vet and ask for the duplicate.

I suspect that there is much more to this story than we are being told. Certifiates are not normally issued on the day - but would be issued with the veterinary report which is typed up after the visit. Also, they are always sent to the person paying for the vetting - not a third party.

So whilst it may be that this person has been influenced in to paying a lot of money for possibly an ordinary little horse with a few problems - I'm not clear on how they may have been misled on the horses condition etc. overall.....
 
I must have misunderstood the original post then - sorry! I read it as the YO withheld the certificate and wouldn't let her see it.
I agree that there is no indication that sarcoids will get worse but forewarned (which she wasn't I believe) is forearmed and a decision could have been made based on the facts.
 
no probs. The yard vet informed the yard owner verbally and in writing that the "wart" I spotted was a sarcoid, the vets report was not passed on to me until I had paid and the horse had broken out in multiple sarcoids. Instead, the yard owner who is a dealer reported to me that the only thing of note on the report was that the horse had a wart. I would not knowingly buy a horse with sarcoids and if I did I would not pay £20k for one. So the seller had information that he did not chose to share with the buyer. Maybe I am being unfair but this was unfortunately not the only incident in my time at that yard

I was warned many times by a groom who was concerned that I should be careful and check out all that I was told, but I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt..more fool me
 
Just a quick thought - Was the horse insured? To insure a horse to the value paid £20,000; the insurers would have asked to see the vetting certificate and as the owner you would have been sent the insurance policy which would have excluded the sarcoids...
 
Yes the horse was insured to the value of £20k with Sheerwater and yes here was an exclusion for sarcoids but by that time I had already bought the horse.
 
but a sarcoid can be treated and in no way would affect the horses perfomance.

The vet should have provided you (normally by post) and normally call to confirm that the horse has passed or failed.

Unless the dealer paid and instructor her vet to vet the horse??

Then you should have got your own vet to inspect the horse.

Yes i believe you have been mugged off - but dont think it will stand in court to be honest - sorry

Was the horse advertised anywhere else?? or did they see you comming ??
 
they saw me coming... I did think though that I would be safe buying a horse from the guys running the yard I was keeping my horses at
 
I don't think it's the right term though...misled.

I can't quite understand why someone wouldn't want or demand to see the vetting certificate before buying...it is after all a "pre purchase exam".

Gullible may be a bit harsh, but it's possibly closer to the mark than being misled. They clearly had something to hide otherwise they'd have waved the vetting certificate willingly in the buyers direction. Buyer should have asked to see it.
 
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