If so many of us.....

WelshD

WelshD

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are using feeds low in sugar/molasses/starch How come finding the right one is still such a minefield?

The majority of feeds seem to have molasses in, do the majority of horse owners really use these?

If not why hasnt the balance swung in favour of the low sugar/starch feeds?

I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts, mulled this one over for ages in the car today!
 
my YO has been happily feeding my two good doers when bringing them in at night having been in a field all day of grass 1/2 scoop of Dengie Molasses Free, ofcourse this was never discussed with me and I am about to loose the plot as I have asked her not to do it.

This has led to me yesterday actually going through all the Dengie feeds because her defence is well it is molasses free, but what I have found out is it is also 2.5% suger, mg 11, protein 14, and only fiber 24 - anyway after all my searching and reading I have come to the conclusion that Dengie Good Doer is ultimately the lightest on the market with some vits etc, whilst ofcourse Dengie Lite is also the lightest it has nothing in it so would have to add.
 
Not a minefield at all, my two are happy hackers and get no treats, chaff, cod liver oil and micronised linseed, one slice of hay a day at present, ad lib grass, when winter kicks in they will get a scoop of veteran mix as well.
Both are good doers, will stay unrugged as long as possible.
PS, they are on one small feed a day and grass
 
I do get confused why people feed at all if they are good doers, my 2 get a cup of top spec lite balancer and nothing else apart from grass and in winter haylage. We all think we have to feed but a mineral lick or balancer is often all that is needed.
 
teasle said:
Tallyho - how do you join the phoenix forum- how do you find out the info about your ccomputer they ask for?
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We don't ask for any info about your computer. You just need to select a user name, give your email address and pick a password and then you're in:). If you're struggling let me know and I'll set you up:)

I feed a token feed of fast fibre or high fibre cubes to get vits and minerals in to my two and, because we're on a livery yard and the cob would beat the door down if he got nothing when everything else was being fed!
 
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meesha said:
I do get confused why people feed at all if they are good doers, my 2 get a cup of top spec lite balancer and nothing else apart from grass and in winter haylage. We all think we have to feed but a mineral lick or balancer is often all that is needed.
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I am also a balancer convert! Spent years feeding our good-but-not-too-good doer on a tiny percentage of the recommended amount of 'normal' feeds (mixes and the average chaff) with the result of an upset tummy (he has a molasses intolerance) and bad hooves (he's also allergic to biotin so no hoof supplements allowed!).
Now all 3 of ours get the recommended amount of a light balancer made for good doers, and a couple of handfuls of unmolassed chaff so they feel like they have something to chew, and all are doing great on it, apart from my welsh who needs a few conditioning cubes to see him through the winter if he is in work.
 
You don't need to input that info. Just the username password and email address. Oh and the number/letter bit of the confirmation code.
 
Suzie G said:
You don't need to input that info. Just the username password and email address. Oh and the number/letter bit of the confirmation code.
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Last time I went to the forum it said it didn't exist! Is it up and running again?? Can someone pm me a link please? :D

Ack, ignore me...it's another forum! :p
 
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horsemadelsie said:
I am also a balancer convert! Spent years feeding our good-but-not-too-good doer on a tiny percentage of the recommended amount of 'normal' feeds (mixes and the average chaff) with the result of an upset tummy (he has a molasses intolerance) and bad hooves (he's also allergic to biotin so no hoof supplements allowed!).
Now all 3 of ours get the recommended amount of a light balancer made for good doers, and a couple of handfuls of unmolassed chaff so they feel like they have something to chew, and all are doing great on it, apart from my welsh who needs a few conditioning cubes to see him through the winter if he is in work.
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Allergic to biotin? I thought this is biologically impossible. How come he is allergic? What were the symptoms? I can comprehend that excess amounts can cause issues, this is very interesting that a horse can be allergic to it.

Only reason I'm so interested is because biotin is the vitamin B7 and is found in almost everything we eat and for horses it is made in the gut by bacteria as well as being abundantly available in grass and forage. You can't really get away from vit B7 in life. The body needs it just to do just about anything.

I have always know the biotin thing is a money-making fad. It is harmless and has very little evidence in it's hoof-mending abilities. All a hoof needs to "mend" or just grow normally is a diet very low in starch and sugar, with minerals and vitamins.

So yes, a balanced ration is all you need.
 
I admit to my ignorance. There always seems to be something new to learn, but I still do not understand why grass/hay/haylage needs to be "balanced", especially for good doers?

And, if it does, how did they all manage before feed merchants invented balancers? Back then, horses were the main means of transport and working the land so surely it would have been even more important to keep them fit and healthy? How did they do it?
 
It is incredibly easy to feed your horse low, or indeed no, sugar feed: manage grass in the growing season, feed stemmy hay or haylage and DO NOT feed good doers hard feed, or indeed any bagged stuff at all if they are already in good flesh. Why on earth people insist on feeding already fat horses eludes me.
 
Dry Rot said:
I admit to my ignorance. There always seems to be something new to learn, but I still do not understand why grass/hay/haylage needs to be "balanced", especially for good doers?

And, if it does, how did they all manage before feed merchants invented balancers? Back then, horses were the main means of transport and working the land so surely it would have been even more important to keep them fit and healthy? How did they do it?
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You have sort of answered your own question... horses in those days spent most of the day working. Not stuffing their faces.

Nowadays, people keep horses on managed land, usually cow pastures which are fertilised. Even farmers have to "balance" their forage because fertilising takes out certain minerals and you have to put back in what you take out.

Time HAVE changed despite people quipping what we did back in the olden days. Laminitis was unheard of because "sinkers" and "founders" were just shot.

Not like for like.
 
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My horses at the moment are still out 24/7 with no food as they are all good doers and looking a bit plumb to say the least. When they do come in they will get hay at night and when they need it they will get fed fast fibre and if they need help to keep weight on, which i doubt this year, speedi beet so i feed low sugar/starch. I keep mine without shoes so i make sure they don't get mollasses. I also have 1 of them that gets quite aggressive if he gets mollasses in his diet and i don't like dodging teeth!!
If i need to change feed then i usually look at what Allen and Page have in their no mollases and barley range. It makes it alot easier to know that i am keeping their feeds right or i go and look on pheonix forum and look through the feeding section on there.
 
Balancers are required as we keep horses in confined areas - they are not free to roam over wide areas of land searching for the right grasses/plants that they need. As well most of us get all our haylage/hay from one supplier so there isnt a wide range in that either.

I think of the balancer in the same way as I do human multi vitamins - most of us dont eat as well as we should so by taking a supplement we make sure we have the required levels. I go for a balancer as it also has a lilttle something to help build muscle and I dont need to put it in any feed at all simply feed it out of hand or bucket - they dont wolf it but chew it nicely and seem to love it. Alternative is a vitamin and mineral block.
 
ok maybe 'minefield' was the wrong word to use but I have seen feeds that have names indicating that they are ok for lami ponies or are approved by X only to read the labels and see they arent ideal!
 
Well I feed molassed feed and then add raw molasses as well.

There are just as many horses who can tolerate them, and need to keep weight on, as there are ones who cant.
 
Mine only gets a tiny handful of Good Doer chaff, a sprinkling of Re-Leve (only enough to keep him used to it so I can up it if needs be) and micronised linseed. Ideally he'd only have 1 feed a day to get his supplements down him but again we're on a yard so he gets a handful of chaff in the morning when everyone else is fed.
He was fed more but we've just moved onto winter grazing and there's obviously a lot of goodness in the grass as he's ballooned!
 
A friend of mine who works in vetinary research (he's a vet), spends all day analysing blood samples for vit/min levels, amongst other things, and says in 11 years he's come across precisely 13 samples that required dietary supplementation. The vast majority of healthy horses DO NOT need any form of additional vitamins, minerals or whatever. In fact what most of them need is fewer calories and more excercise.
 
this is a very interesting thread!
I'll admit my ignorance and say that I do buy into media hype re certain products.

My mare is in currently on recommended amount of balancer, with hifi molasses free. She is an excitable character, quite stressy, a real worrier and is also a fairly itchy creature, hence why I tried the molassess free as was advised on another thread that mollasses can cause itchiness??! She is fed the above simply so that I can get 2 supplements into her....one is a calmer, the other is NAF Thrive (she is an insanely messy horse in the stable)

At the moment, going into winter, I'd say she needs to lose some weight (her work has been sparse the past couple of months, first due to my injury, and then hers) I know it's not the intention of this thread, but anyone want to recommend an alternative diet, excluding the balancer and hifi molasses free? :) Any advice much apprecaited!
 
Dengie good doer has far less carbs and higher fibre so chewing time longer than the molasses free 2.5 percent sugar. Has vits and mins so shouldn't need a balancer.
 
Dollymix, I have found that NAF products (in particular PinkPowder and Haylage Balancer) have a disastrous effect on at least 2, probably more, of our horses, making their unshod feet tender on paths they normally trot on with no problems and making them very excitable. I'd take yours straight off the Thrive and see if that makes a difference. I give my 'loose' mare Brewers' Yeast and a small amount of bran, which solves the problem. They also all have a Himalayan mineral lick available, which they make varying use of.
 
I give my good doers a small feed because our 18yr old mare has Arthritis and needs a supplement to ease her discomfort, this is her first winter with us, so at the moment it's trial and error with her, my lad gets a small handful of chaff so he doesn't demolish the barn, the pair of them already have jealousy issues
 
Mine don't get hard feed. Mine gets a half a scoop of hifi lite 2x a day because she expects a bucket feed after years of receiving it when in hard work. Daughters pony gets a spoonful of the same for the sake of fairness. Think a lot of confusion is caused by people not realising good doers don't need hard food unless in hard work. And by hard work I mean hunting fit, not an hours slow hack. How many posts are on here full of 'only fed', a scoop of calm & condition or scoop of pony nuts or scoop of veteran mix because it turned 16 this spring. A lot of owners feed more than mine got when she was competing. My 17.2 average doer comp horse did very well on less than some native happy hackers I know too.
 
putasocinit said:
my YO has been happily feeding my two good doers when bringing them in at night having been in a field all day of grass 1/2 scoop of Dengie Molasses Free, ofcourse this was never discussed with me and I am about to loose the plot as I have asked her not to do it.

This has led to me yesterday actually going through all the Dengie feeds because her defence is well it is molasses free, but what I have found out is it is also 2.5% suger, mg 11, protein 14, and only fiber 24 - anyway after all my searching and reading I have come to the conclusion that Dengie Good Doer is ultimately the lightest on the market with some vits etc, whilst ofcourse Dengie Lite is also the lightest it has nothing in it so would have to add.
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Half a scoop of Hifi would weigh, what, a half to 1lb?? :confused: Hardly over feeding...
 
Cortez said:
A friend of mine who works in vetinary research (he's a vet), spends all day analysing blood samples for vit/min levels, amongst other things, and says in 11 years he's come across precisely 13 samples that required dietary supplementation. The vast majority of healthy horses DO NOT need any form of additional vitamins, minerals or whatever. In fact what most of them need is fewer calories and more excercise.
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I guess that would be from his catchment area. Where is that? Maybe I should move there :)
 
tallyho! said:
I guess that would be from his catchment area. Where is that? Maybe I should move there :)
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I fully accept that things may be radically different in England, but here in Ireland very few horses are supplemented the way they seem to be over there with you. I regularly go to horsey things in the UK and, no disrespect, I've never seen such behemoths in my life! So many enormously overweight horses (and, of course, some horses in perfect condition); such bewildering arrays of calmers, supplements, special feeds.
 
Tell me about it Cortez. Imagine if you went to show from show and were placed beneath these behemoths for being too "thin"....... Yes. Welcome to England indeed....

There could be something in that though, deeper than one might think about the over fertilised land here. The incidence of metabolic related disease is like an epidemic.

You must realise that the supplementation, graing management, diet modulation is in response to this because it is hard to keep a hobby horse on such lush land. It's hard to keep a hot blooded tb on such land without there being problems.

I guess us English people just have to realise that what has been given up for milk, beef and grain is not beneficial to hardy horses and ponies and we have to restrict, supplement and work our horses.

Every country, every land is different. We can only work with what problems present to us and aim to fix it the best we can.
 
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