If the RSPCA have visited a yard ..

YorksG - they are more than welcome to try and make me out to be a liar, I got involved with this a month back and helped her get the poor crippled boy up to the stable and she told me she would get a vet out and then told me the next day the vet had been out that morning and given her bute (which later found out was bought off a friend and there had been no vet) and told her to keep him in for 2 weeks .. 2 DAYS later he was back out on lush grass and I called it quits and other liveries stepped in to help her. I haven't fed this horse anything other liveries have taken over and fed/watered him as I haven't wanted to get involved. I also haven't seen the owner in weeks ..
 
montyforever, I am not suggesting that you are a liar, I am trying to point out that there are usualy two sides to every story, which is one reason why there are rules in place for those with authority to follow.
 
YorksG said:
montyforever, I am not suggesting that you are a liar, I am trying to point out that there are usualy two sides to every story, which is one reason why there are rules in place for those with authority to follow.
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Quite, but seriously, does it really matter who went on to the yard? IF there is a pony suffering unnecessarily then don't you agree that it's a good thing that the RSPCA may be involved? Or is it better that it gets left to suffer?
 
I know, I would be as interested as you to find out her side of the story. Just concerned for the pony while he's improving slightly I think it's just going to be a round about always ending up back here and I just don't want to be stuck in the middle of it :( we have enough issues at our yard without all this and me having a pony that is incredibly prone to laminitis (through a huge mistake of mine, and I've paid out financially and emotionally since and she will never be the same pony she was before) its very hard to watch :(
 
Moomin1 said:
Quite, but seriously, does it really matter who went on to the yard? IF there is a pony suffering unnecessarily then don't you agree that it's a good thing that the RSPCA may be involved? Or is it better that it gets left to suffer?
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And if I believe that there is a person suffering from untreated illness because their relative does not wish to approach medical help, would it be right for me to go onto their property, without following the correct legal process?
 
YorksG said:
And if I believe that there is a person suffering from untreated illness because their relative does not wish to approach medical help, would it be right for me to go onto their property, without following the correct legal process?
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Errr, no - but surely you would be more concerned about the welfare of the suffering person than how the authorities got in there to provide them with that treatment and care?!! :confused:

If my gran was ill and in her flat, I wouldn't give two hoots whether the great train robbers broke in to get her out and raided the place in the process - her welfare is what would matter.

And where is the evidence here that the RSPCA have entered the property illegally?
 
Moomin1 said:
Errr, no - but surely you would be more concerned about the welfare of the suffering person than how the authorities got in there to provide them with that treatment and care?!! :confused:

If my gran was ill and in her flat, I wouldn't give two hoots whether the great train robbers broke in to get her out and raided the place in the process - her welfare is what would matter.

And where is the evidence here that the RSPCA have entered the property illegally?
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Oh dear, imagine you get home from the shops, your door is broken in, nothng to tell you who or why, you ring the police, as you think you have been burgled. The police tell you that they put your door through as they had had a report that your gran was in your house, ill and you would not call a doctor for her, no they can't tell you who made the report, oh and sorry, you will have to sort the door out yourself. You know your gran hasn't been in your house for six months and is in fact in rude health, on a snow boarding holiday. The RSPCA do not have a right of entry, without invitation and certainly no right to be wandering about without making their presence known. This is also for their own benefit, as should there be any damage or anything missing from the yard, then they have little defence. We are all very aware of yard security and who is to say who the strangers are if they do not approach the owner and show their ID. The rules are there for the protection of all.
 
YorksG said:
Oh dear, imagine you get home from the shops, your door is broken in, nothng to tell you who or why, you ring the police, as you think you have been burgled. The police tell you that they put your door through as they had had a report that your gran was in your house, ill and you would not call a doctor for her, no they can't tell you who made the report, oh and sorry, you will have to sort the door out yourself. You know your gran hasn't been in your house for six months and is in fact in rude health, on a snow boarding holiday. The RSPCA do not have a right of entry, without invitation and certainly no right to be wandering about without making their presence known. This is also for their own benefit, as should there be any damage or anything missing from the yard, then they have little defence. We are all very aware of yard security and who is to say who the strangers are if they do not approach the owner and show their ID. The rules are there for the protection of all.
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If the police did that, (which they actually do if they get a call like that), then I would be grateful. That's their job and they have and will continue to save lives by doing so.
 
Moomin1 said:
If the police did that, (which they actually do if they get a call like that), then I would be grateful. That's their job and they have and will continue to save lives by doing so.
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Not so if the belief/report is that the 'victim' is reported to be suffering from a mental illness, in that situation section 135 of the Mental Health Act 1983 is used, and Approved Mental Health Professional applies to a judge for a warrant, which they then ask the police to assist them to execute. As I said above, the rules are there to protect everyone, including those who respond to the reports, they should be followed.
 
I can't believe no one has done anything for this poor pony. All it would have taken was one call to the vet. On their arrival, once the situation was explained, they would have called on the rspca themselves.

What kind of people are you?
 
YorksG said:
Not so if the belief/report is that the 'victim' is reported to be suffering from a mental illness, in that situation section 135 of the Mental Health Act 1983 is used, and Approved Mental Health Professional applies to a judge for a warrant, which they then ask the police to assist them to execute. As I said above, the rules are there to protect everyone, including those who respond to the reports, they should be followed.
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I really don't want to discuss this any further - Amymay is right - someone should be thinking about the pony, which clearly you're not.

OP the best bet as Competitiondiva has said is to get the YO to contact the RSPCA call centre to confirm if an inspector has been out to visit and confirm if it is being dealt with. If this isn't the case and no report has been made, then please contact one of the authorities.
 
Moomin1 said:
I really don't want to discuss this any further - Amymay is right - someone should be thinking about the pony, which clearly you're not.

How rude to presume to know what I am thinking. If people follow the correct procedures, then the animal gets the help it needs, while those offering the help behave in a legal manner, win, win situation as far as I can see. The law is there for everyone to follow, to do otherwise is to pick and choose which laws suit you. Taken to the extreeme this can mean that those who believe in the death penalty for traffic offences can execute people for overstaying in two hour parking zones :D
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I really don't understand why this poor animal isn't receiving treatment? I might be wrong, but I'm sure that yard/land owner has a share of the responsibility when it comes to welfare issues. He needs to sort it, immediately. This animal shouldn't be suffering.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Rather odd..... as far as I am aware, RSPCA do not enter property without permission (or unless accompanied by a police officer) - unless someone has update on regs?

They can post on the boundary of property (field or yard gate) tho (just like BHS or WHW) but none allowed to trespass onto land...........
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Was it definitely the RSPCA? The police are not required if the individual making the visit has been assigned the position (temp or perm) of an 'Inspector' as per the Animal Welfare Act by the local authority... That Inspector has a right of entry to non domestic areas IF they believe that entry is required prior to the obtaining of a court order... (Sec 19)...

montyforever said:
Aparently they had police as well another livery saw them arrive as they left but didnt want to get involved .. Just all a bit weird isn't it!
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Saw this after I'd posted so the bit above is info not really relevant... Very odd though... I think I'd be wanting to check with the RSPCA to see if they have a visit logged or if the other livery was having an inventive moment...

YO should also be shifting their backside and verifying/getting any treatment the horse requires - and sorting out their position regarding the owner...

:)
 
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YorksG said:
Moomin1 said:
If people follow the correct procedures, then the animal gets the help it needs, while those offering the help behave in a legal manner, win, win situation as far as I can see. The law is there for everyone to follow, to do otherwise is to pick and choose which laws suit you. Taken to the extreeme this can mean that those who believe in the death penalty for traffic offences can execute people for overstaying in two hour parking zones :D
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I agree things should be done properly and officially, of course in reality every situation is different. Take for example if you went to a yard for some reason, and on going you hear thrashing coming from a stable, you go to investigate (or would you walk away?) to find a cast horse, which you 'put right', technically you were tresspassing, but I can't see any judge in the world holding you accountable when you were clearly acting as an agent of necessity for an animal in desperate need.

Also under law there is a difference between a yard (not attached to a house) and a private dwelling, the first a PO can enter without warrant under the animal welfare act.

But as said things once again (because it's about the RSPCA) have gotten off track. There has been no mention of the RSPCA (if they did indeed attend) breaking any laws, they were seen arriving that's all.............
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I work as a home carer for vulnerable adults. If I go to a property an cant gain access an I have looked through all windows banged an shouted then I would ring the family. If there is still no response then we have to phone the police to come so we can gain access to the property. We have to do this because we have got to assume they are in the property an something has happened. On one occasion a lady went out shopping but didn't tell anyone. So she came home to find her door kicked in. So if there is course for concern a police officer can an will use force to access a property
 
This was not about wether they could enter the yard or not, just about why they would visit and not leave a notice or speak to the yard owner. We have a public footpath running through the land and these stables are visible to the road so they could have been standing on the road with binoculars if they wanted to! Nobody is bothered that they turned up just that no action was taken? Just a bit strange
 
I don't think it is against the law to enter an open property. People walk on and off yards etc. all the time visting and doing delivery's. But it would be an offence to break in and damage property to gain access or take things that do not belong to you. If they had to gain access to a locked property or if they were to seize or treat an animal once they have observed an animal requiring help then I'm sure they would then need Police back up unless the owner gave voluntary consent in which case they wouldn't need the Police to be involved.
 
Amymay - try to find out if it has been reported/visited I guess, not sure after that other people on the yard have said they will report it as well as some friends who have been up with me and seen the pony etc. He is improving which is the difficult part but I have a feeling that's just because of the bute .. Very difficult situation, my ponies and a few others are already being targeted/upset and messed around with due to arguments that happened way before this pony even arrived on the yard so people dont really want to add fuel to the fire. :(
 
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