If you can catch it, you can have it! Part 2

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PingPongPony

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Went up to yard tonight, cowbag decided that today i'm not catching her, so i followed your advice and kept walking after her and would shoo her away if she thought of going, so i was making the decisions. 30 min later, friend comes, cowbag trots over to her and friend just grabs headcollar, she told me to just take cowbag in. i was fuming, at the horse, not friend. but half way down the track towards yard i got even angrier and i thought 'i am NOT going to have a horse that can't be caught by me but can be caught by anyone else, this is ridiculous!' so i turned around, went into a field opposite the big field, this field is not used by anyone atm and is smaller. so i let her off in there and sat down for a bit, then tried to catch her again. she still didn't give in so i again followed your advice and just chased her, after about 20 min she started going round in circles around me, listening to me when i told her to trot or walk, or even stand, yet when i went up to her she still wouldn't let me come near her, so i did it again and again and again, untill 8, when all i could see is more or less her white head, legs and tail and could barely see where i was putting my feet cuz it was so dark. so i told her to canter, and just walked off, leaving her in the field on her own.
When i was walking after her, she would stick her ass in my face most of the time and sort of zig zag walk instead of straight line. Any ideas how to stop this?
And any ideas as to how to catch it tomorrow?? I'm thinking to not plan anything special for tomorrow, just equip myself with a bottle of water, something to eat, a packet of polos and a lunge whip,put my comfiest boots on and just be prepared to be walking round all day.
Any other ideas?? :)
 
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No tips I am afraid, my old TB used to do this occasionally and I used to lose my rag and throw his headcollar, this was very counter productive, but felt good at the time lol x
 
You may find a night on her own will make her want to come in tomorrow but if it doesn't I would take a lunge whip and keep her cantering if u can. If she slows down send her away again and keep goin. Eventually she will get tired and u will find the circles will get smaller. Then put your whip down and wait for her to come to you. It may take a while but you've gotta persevere. I did this with my mare once and she hasn't tried it since in 7 years. She wanted to run away so I made her run
 
Just sending a tonne of sympathy your way :( I'm getting annoyed at her ready your post!!

Threaten her with a french platter stupid mare!

Hope you get hold of her, dont blumming know which side their bread is buttered some times!
 
Oh dear, are you still chasing that horse :( poor you. There was a Monty Roberts episode about this but can't remember how he sorted it. The man had the horse for ages but it had never stood still for him. I think it was something like you are doing already..don't give up :)
 
Thank you, i will go out with a lunge whip tomorrow. And if she won't let me catch her this weekend, i will be calling McDonalds and asking them if they want a limited edition Shiny Meal :mad:
 
We have all been there at some time you are very angry at the moment, when you try next time leave the anger behind, she will sense it, I think when you let her go this evening she knew, quite rightly, you were cross with her and you were onto a losing battle from then, your body language was probably sending her away never really saying come to me .
The whole point of sending away is being able to see when the horse has given in and is ready to be caught, if you are really cross it is easy to miss the signs, in the dark it would be impossible.

When you do catch her, however long it takes, however cross you are you must not show it, make a big fuss of her, through gritted teeth, give her treats and make her feel that you are so pleased she has been caught that she wants to be with you. If I ever have a tricky one I always give a treat when I turnout, make a big fuss of them and hope they remember that when I go back.
 
be positive said:
We have all been there at some time you are very angry at the moment, when you try next time leave the anger behind, she will sense it, I think when you let her go this evening she knew, quite rightly, you were cross with her and you were onto a losing battle from then, your body language was probably sending her away never really saying come to me .
The whole point of sending away is being able to see when the horse has given in and is ready to be caught, if you are really cross it is easy to miss the signs, in the dark it would be impossible.

When you do catch her, however long it takes, however cross you are you must not show it, make a big fuss of her, through gritted teeth, give her treats and make her feel that you are so pleased she has been caught that she wants to be with you. If I ever have a tricky one I always give a treat when I turnout, make a big fuss of them and hope they remember that when I go back.
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After i had the sit down i wasn't angry, i just sort of thought 'at least she's exercised, i will just sigh a lot and not be bothered' so i wasn't angry after having a sit down. She gets either an apple, carrot or a couple of polos everytime she is caught and everytime she is turned out :( the cowbag just doesn't like me, cuz everyone else rarely have probelms with catching her :(
 
Urrrrg you must b sooo fustrating. I would keep her in that small field by herself untill shes being caught daily without fuss TBH.
Also when you are sending her away when she slows down lowers her head to come into her make sure you dont walk straight at her almost turn the back of your shoulder and dont make eye contact with her. Theres one at the yard that everybody has problems with and i can alway catc her doing that, and thats without sending her away. I think they find it a less aggressive approach.:)
 
zoelouisem said:
Urrrrg you must b sooo fustrating. I would keep her in that small field by herself untill shes being caught daily without fuss TBH.
Also when you are sending her away when she slows down lowers her head to come into her make sure you dont walk straight at her almost turn the back of your shoulder and dont make eye contact with her. Theres one at the yard that everybody has problems with and i can alway catc her doing that, and thats without sending her away. I think they find it a less aggressive approach.:)
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I can't keep her in this field, we have two new liveries coming in on monday who will have this field :( The thing is, when i chase her, even when she was going around me in circles, despite troting for about 1 hour straight, she doesn't show any of the typical submissive signs, no chewing/licking, no ear pointed towards me and no head lowering. She sticks her 'unimpressed' face on and just keeps running :mad:
 
Know the feeling.

Mine has before had "away weeks" where he will refuse to be caught for a week no matter what you do :mad:

The knobber will then decide he's had enough and will stand at the gate wondering why you've forgotten him!

He will also do the elevated Welsh D trot/ canter that you wish he would do in the school complete with tail in the air the s*d! Really rubs it in!

May not be the pc way of doing it but is there anyway with a couple of assistants you could maybe usher her into a smaller paddock/ fence off a smaller area in her paddock that you can get her into?
 
PingPongPony said:
I can't keep her in this field, we have two new liveries coming in on monday who will have this field :( The thing is, when i chase her, even when she was going around me in circles, despite troting for about 1 hour straight, she doesn't show any of the typical submissive signs, no chewing/licking, no ear pointed towards me and no head lowering. She sticks her 'unimpressed' face on and just keeps running :mad:
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Ah thats a shame with the little field.
How close can you get to her? Is it worth putting a headcollar with a bit of rope or bailing twine hanging down? Then treating her if she is caught??
 
me&Harvey said:
May not be the pc way of doing it but is there anyway with a couple of assistants you could maybe usher her into a smaller paddock/ fence off a smaller area in her paddock that you can get her into?
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Can't as i would need to buy new fencing, or a big car battery and ticker box, and more posts. Because if the fencing is tape that isn't electrified, she goes through it, if it has a proper battery on but is a normal posts height, she jumps it. So i would either need to put up post and rail fencing or buy 2 sets of posts so i can tie them on top of eachother to make it taller and get a car battery and a ticker box :( I wish i could, as it'd make it easier but as an A level student in full time ed, with a part time job, and having to pay for the horse myself, i cannot afford new riding gloves for myself, let alone whole new fencing, battery and ticker box :(

zoelouisem said:
Ah thats a shame with the little field.
How close can you get to her? Is it worth putting a headcollar with a bit of rope or bailing twine hanging down? Then treating her if she is caught??
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She has a headcollar on with a bit of bailer twine, i can get quite close to her ass, like arm lengths away, but nowhere near her head :(
 
I can't really offer any suggestions as others have been really helpful, but as your friend walked up to her and caught her straight away, could it be that your mare now senses your tension and anticipation of a 'fight' and therefore legs it?

Perhaps go in with the idea that you won't be catching her, then you are unlikely to get frustrated and wound up. We had a lad who was a sod to catch. My OH and I used to spend several evenings a week sat in deck chairs in the field reading books (in summer!), and it didn't take too long before he decided we were thoroughly nice humans and he wanted to spend time with us. Before hand I used to dread going down and doing battle with him, and taking away that build up of frustration and dread really helped us.
 
I still say muzzle.
But I had a horse who my husband could catch but not me, it drove me up the wall but I just had to think that at least I could ride the sod (horse not OH - OOPS). When he was caught he was handed over to me and I took him in and fed him. It never made any difference to his attitude, but he was pretty unlikeable generally. It was best if I sent OH in first and didn't stress myself having first go, I just bypassed the catching bit.
And I sold the horse and kept the OH!
 
My pony would do this too, anyone could catch him bar me the sending away never worked, a whole day following him nothing.:mad:

In the end i wound approach him close enough that i was close but without crossing the 'i'm going to catch you' line and crouch down to my childrens height (they could always catch him) and he would wander over to me. Don't know why it worked but it did and now he catches fine- with me at full 5'3!.

Good luck - looking forward to a Part 3 with lots of happy smilies!:)
 
If other people can catch her it must be your body language that's telling her to run! Some of us have a very upright stance and walk and move quickly, which will be totally normal to you but spooky for her.
Eye contact is very important with these extra sensitive horses.
When she is going away from you (it's not necessary to take a whip, that will be counter productive), stare at her eye and keep your shoulders square on to her. As soon as she turns towards you, drop your eyes and head position and turn your body away from her and stop, don't look at her, look at the ground in front of her and bow your head and shoulders. Keep the rope wound up so it isn't hanging and keep your hands into your stomach.
Walk at an angle, zig zag in semi circles. If she walks away stand up and stare at her eyes again and move her on. Repeat the dropping your eye contact as soon as she turns back to you or if she is circling you, she is very sensetive to where your eyes are looking. You must look submissive and non threatening when she makes a move towards you and back off when she approaches you and turn away so your back is at an angle to her and wait.
See if that works ;)
 
No new advice really, I just wanted to wish you good luck. I can't begin to understand how angry/frustrated/sad you must be. I think there will be a positive outcome. I like your determination! x
 
muff747 said:
If other people can catch her it must be your body language that's telling her to run! Some of us have a very upright stance and walk and move quickly, which will be totally normal to you but spooky for her.
Eye contact is very important with these extra sensitive horses.
When she is going away from you (it's not necessary to take a whip, that will be counter productive), stare at her eye and keep your shoulders square on to her. As soon as she turns towards you, drop your eyes and head position and turn your body away from her and stop, don't look at her, look at the ground in front of her and bow your head and shoulders. Keep the rope wound up so it isn't hanging and keep your hands into your stomach.
Walk at an angle, zig zag in semi circles. If she walks away stand up and stare at her eyes again and move her on. Repeat the dropping your eye contact as soon as she turns back to you or if she is circling you, she is very sensetive to where your eyes are looking. You must look submissive and non threatening when she makes a move towards you and back off when she approaches you and turn away so your back is at an angle to her and wait.
See if that works ;)
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It doesn't i've tried it :( The second i stop looking at her and am all submissive, she ignores me and start eating grass. Besides, i don't want to submit to her, i want her to submit to me.
I got fed up today, took lunge whip out, chased her for 2 hours, pinned her in the corner and asked friend to get her for me from the corner.
I've found out that when she used to do this to her last owner, the person would then tell her off once caught, hence if i dont get her straight away, i dont get her at all :(
 
Jeez sensible horse I say. If she lets others catch her and not you, think on! Not sure a lunge whip and chasing her down is going to change that opinion any time soon.
 
Try setting up a smallish fenced area (4 or even 5ft posts if she can jump (like my mare!) :D) Make sure you position it as such, so that if she runs from you she will find herself with nowhere to go but in there. Try and keep fairly close so that once she is in the paddock you can pull the tape across to shut her in with you. Make sure it is small enough that she cannot pee off and ignore you. It took a good year before my mare stopped being a sod to catch on occasions and this turned out to be the only thing that worked. To start with we would have a mini join up session which could last for quite a time, but when she realised that she had no where to go (and we dont just work,work,work), she ended up easy to catch when inside her 'comfort zone'. She would literally say, 'no youre not catching me', try and run rings, but when she ended up the small area. I could walk straight up to her with no negative reaction from her. Nowadays, she is basically always good to catch, but I always keep a smallish area fenced just in case (It also doubles as a bare paddock for my little mini pony)
Good luck and remember to be patient. ;)
 
I feel your pain, some time ago we had a small dartmoor pony that was a pain to catch, I firstly did the Monty approach but he was a nervous soul and always bottled out at the last moment before catching him so I ended up sitting on a bucket with a huge pile of carrot pieces which I tossed to him getting nearer and nearer until he came close enough to take from my hand and to catch his rope tag. After that I used a clicker trainer and carrot rewards and he came good quite quickly. Failing that how about 30ft of alcathene pipe attached to her headcollar? lol, at least she wouldn't get tangled in it!!
 
I feel your pain! I spent 3 years (I'm a slow learner and tbf he was on full livery thru winter for a long time which hindered things a bit; busy yard staff don't have time to chase difficult ponies round fields!) of not being able to get near mine without some form of bribery (there was a period of 6 months / a year or so when there was only one person on the entire yard who could reliably catch him and it wasn't me!) and there were several times when he was out for nights on end when he should have been in or where we missed farrier appointments and lessons because of it. I used to use all sorts of tricks from stuffing a feed scoop up my coat so I didn't get mugged by the other horses, hiding behind other horses to get close to him, leaving the headcollar on (it started to rub so had to stop this), grabbing his mane / rug, chasing him, not chasing him, herding him into corners, using multiple people to try and block him in but I think the thing that probably helped the most was when I started paying more attention to his body language and put more effort into controlling mine. Not saying I'm an expert but through trial and error (lots of!) I started to recognize when I needed to to take the pressure off to stop him bolting to the other side of the field, when I needed to keep it on and when I needed to block him. I also made sure that I never punished him when I caught him no matter how long it took (I think sometimes other people DID lose their rag with him which is probably why it took me so long to get him catching reliably and even then there were still certain people who couldn't get near him) He's a lot more reliable now and I'm a lot better at nipping things in the bud when he starts. Can't remember the last time he really tried anything and if he does now it's usually only for a few minutes rather than a few hours! I'd just say persevere, stay calm and make sure that you aren't giving her the wrong signals. Not the best example in the world as the horse doesn't go flying off to the other end of the field when it runs away but this video did help a couple of things to click for me (tbf I'd sorted pretty much all the problems with this by the time someone gave me the link but still found it interesting) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gug5HX4M9UQ
 
can someone explane how chasing a horse for 2 hours is going to make it catch if i chased anyone on here like that with a whip would you want to catch
 
For those of you who are saying i shouldn't have gone with the whip, basically, its the advice i've taken from part 1, NOTHING else i have tried worked, i have been trying to catch this cowbag since last sunday, before that she had no problems, just a one off ocassionaly but rarely, and nothing bad happened to her before sunday, i didn't tell her off for anything at all as she's always very good!
Other posters have said it worked for their horses and when you are desperate you will try anything.
I DID NOT hit this horse, nor did i aim the whip at her. Other posters have said that if she wants to run then i should make her run, and not give in until she wants to stop. But i have spent 2-4 hours per day trying to catch this horse and i haven't done anything bad to her, she always gets polos/apples/carrots when caught and turned out, she gets a good scratch and feed before she's turned out too. I never use a whip with her, she is in a happy mouth loose ring snaffle and she always behaves very well so she never gets told off. Hence my frustration when i can't catch it. So i decided to take the others advice and see what happens. This method has got me closer to her than any other thing that i tried.
I've had a very experienced person come help me today, he has worked with more uncatchable horses than i can count, even he couldn't get close to her with just a bucket of food, he said 'i have never seen a horse that so resistant to anything you do, you have a hard one to crack' , so its starting to become not just me but anyone.
Feel free to post any suggestions as to what else i can try, i'm running out of ideas and am willing to try anything. :)
 
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The kids pony refused to be caught by anyone when we first had him... he had headcollar with rope dangling at all times... he would turn his bum to us and zizag.. playing a game.
Between myself and the 3 kids we followed that pony all day for 2 days... refusing to let him eat (obv. day only). I didnt chase him, just walked after him. Teatime on the second day he just gave in... and I have caught him 90% of the time since!(the 10% is easily rectified with a feed bucket).
I wish you all the luck in the world... its so frustrating, you want to shoot them when finally caught but have to grit your teeth, treats and cuddles... T
 
Ohhhh you,poor thing! She is a cow bag indeed. The problem is that she finds her field more appealing, less pressure than you. Sorry i dont mean to be mean i am just trying to look at why she is making that decision. Generally Horses make decisions on the least path of resistance and confrontation - they like an easy life. You have to become more appealing so that she wants to be with you, that you are the easiest option. Sadly it is going to be perserverence, give yourself plenty if time and show no emotion, just keep moving her on... You are not chasing her with a whip just moving her on whenever she stops to eat or walks away or turns her bum towards you. Try and approach her shoulder wherever possible. And I really really think that to make this work you need to be putting her into a field that is far less appealing. I will also get shot down for this but if you can keep her on her own in that field for a while so that again she relies on you for the nicer things in life I.e. company (and therefore relief from the pressure of always worrying anout oredators on her own) then that will help.

Or if you feel that this passive leadership isnt working with her, maybe try this approach. spend some time just walking past her from difficult angles, completely ignoring her, don't look at her, keep body language totally directed away from you, pick stuff up from floor, poo pick, rustle your pockets - can you get any closer that way? If she walks away keep the distance the same or retreat slighty until she stops, still ignoring her. If you get to the point where you could touch her, dont for the first ten times, then just give a treat on the floor and walk on. Repeat ad nauseum then try just a scratch and walk away. Like a form of densensitisation
then hold her headcollar, dont at any point bring her in. When you do finally get to he point of bringing in, next time go back to the basics for a while - just walk past.
 
Al will have to try just walking after her again but last time i did that, she kept buggering off down to the bottom of the field and when i walked back up towards her she'd do the same again, i did it for good couple of hours, and no results. :( We will see. For now she is in a smaller field on her own with less grass in it, and before people jump on me, she can't touch a horse but she has 8 horses in the field next to her and 4 in the field on the other side so she isn't completely alone with no other horse in sight, she just can't touch them etc.
I'll keep working with her.
She's having the next week off work, just purely catching, bringing in to groom and feed and letting go again. See if she gets any easier to catch :)
 
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